Disconnecting Hobbs Meter

[Andrew_VT]

CLR2LAN,
are you running some kinda charter operation to need to know specific times to bill "clients"? If so, you're not doing that bad to have 1200 hours and your own 135 certificate! (I know big assumptions make me the ass, wouldnt have it any other way)

 

[Wiggums]

Your about to be nominated for the tool of the year award.

There is no legitimate reason to disable to hobbs meter. The fact you want to hide the swtich behind the panel makes the whole thing pretty shady. If you want to track times for clients then you either get ACARS, or use the pencil/clock method. The pencil/clock method works great that's the way even the largest charter/fractionals do it.

The fact that you are considering doing something like this makes me think that you are doing some other grey or illegal things.

 

[Junkflyer]

I actually know someone who did that (wired a hobbs switch on a 135 aircraft) to save time for inspections, etc. The feds did find out which resulted in a huge fine and needless to say he is out of business now.

 

[minitour]

I was about to pipe up again in defense, but I aparently missed the part where he said he wanted to hide the switch behind the panel.

After reading that, I've got to admit....something seems up.

Do the 337 field approval and put the switch in the panel...if an inspector will authorize it. The airplane doesn't need a hobbs meter anyway.

Don't hide the switch...that just sounds funky.

-mini

 

[CLR2LAN]

yeah, i'm probably going to just get the timer someone posted - never thought it would be considered an alteration, besides the company is paying for it.

 

[No Delay]

I still have to call B.S.

You sir, are up to no good!

 

[Lead Sled]

I've only know one individual, an aircraft salesman, who disconnected a Hobb meter on a brand new, ferry time only, Cessna 421. This noble gentleman disconnected it on several occassions when he took his girlfriend on some trips. He got caught. The buyer of the airplane wasn't happy. It was very ugly. (It actually couldn't have happend to a more deserving guy. :beer: )

LS

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Well, hopefully, someone knows or has an idea who CLR2LAN is and will look into into him and his operation. This guy should be investigated.

If you do, report him to the FSDO and have them keep an eye on him.

 

[CLR2LAN]

Well, hopefully, someone knows or has an idea who CLR2LAN is and will look into into him and his operation. This guy should be investigated.

If you do, report him to the FSDO and have them keep an eye on him.

Absolutely - you tool, you'll make a great ***** one day. I hear the regional’s are hiring if you'd like to get started. With your 99% on your ATP, you'll be the CP's pet in no time.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Absolutely - you tool, you'll make a great ***** one day. I hear the regional’s are hiring if you'd like to get started. With your 99% on your ATP, you'll be the CP's pet in no time.

Gee that worked better than I thought.

...CLR2LAN, you're wayyyyyy too easy.:laugh: :laugh:

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Out of curiosity, you state that your intentions aren't shady, yet you are surprised and disagree with most posters who take the "moral high road."

Absolutely - I would have never though everyone on this board took the moral high road. - should have posted it in regionals.

 

[Longhorn]

Guys and gals. If you could please keep the discussion on track and not let it turn into another name calling thread that would be great. You all have some good points and interesting discussion as long as it does not fall apart.

thanks in advance,
lh

 

[avbug]

As the poster came to the maintenance forum looking for mechanics who would detail over the internet a method of accomplishing an illegal act for questionable purposes, and who has repeatedly refused to reveal his reasons...and who reports that he is shocked these same mechanics hold high moral values and professional ethics...it's difficult to not call a spade a spade. Sounds like flame bait, acts like flame bait, smells like flame bait, tastes like flame bait.

Let's call it a fish.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Avbug,

I agree.
Also, Longhorn made his post after having removed a couple of CLR2LAN's posts. They were in between my last two and not very...lets say, "kind."

 

[Lead Sled]

I agree. The guy is baiting us. He sounded like a master at it as well. Therefore, he is a master baiter and we should move on.

LS

 

[bubbers44]

Jets don't have a tach so use the air switch connected to the hobbs meter to keep track of flight time. All mainetenance and usually lease back fees are registered with the hobbs meter. Have heard of quite long flights that never got recorded pulling the breaker.

 

[Junkflyer]

All the jets I have operated had no hobbs. The engineer records all times in the logbook which is how everything is tracked. Actually some do have hobbs, but just for apu time.

 

[Longhorn]

Amish,
I put the 2 posts back up with the language edits so that your posts make sense. I hope this helps.

 

[Way2Broke]

Agreed...but maybe we're not thinking outside the box enough.

Maybe this isn't to "fool" someone as the Tach would never allow that.

SMOH, 100 HR, ADs all based on Tach.


-mini

Again, I have to ask where does it say that a tach meter is required? A tach, yes, but the meter part of a tach is not required. Not a single one of our planes has a tach meter or a hobbs and they are operated part 135.

 

[erj-145mech]

A tach meter as you put it is that a tachometer? I think that you mean a recording Tach? A tachometer is a required instrument for an aircraft engine, thats in 14CFR21 and 14CFR91. It may also be required by the individual aircrafts equipment list.

 

[Way2Broke]

I guess the technical question is "recording tach". I do not hold a A&P and have never heard it called that before, but I'll buy it for a buck. So where does it say that a hobbs or recording tach is required? Why not just use actual observed flight times?

 

[avbug]

A recording tach, or odometer function of a tachometer, or an hour meter for that matter (hobbs being a brand, like datacon, and others) is not required unless it's part of the type design. You can use any method you like to record hours on the airframe.

The question posed in this thread is how one might dummy switch an existing installed hour meter in order to allow it to sometimes register, and sometimes not, and hide it out of sight behind a panel. The question is posed by a poster who stipulates that he's asking here because he doesn't not expect mechanics to be moral individuals or follow the "high moral road," who are likely to help him do what he wants. In so doing, one of the conditions of his asking is that we are not allowed to know what he's trying to accomplish. In other words, ask professional career aircraft maintenance technicians to assist in providing information on illegal maintenance (because we have no morals, of course) on the condition that we don't ask any questions.

With respect to the use of a recording hour device, if one is in use, you should continue to use it to maintain continuity in the maintenance documents, or properly show why it's not in use. When I research the component times or aircraft times during an inspection or maintenance, folks switching from one method of recording hours to another, or even simply swapping out an hour meter without recording it, can cause real headaches.

It can also put you in a lot of jeopardy if you can't prove that inspections fell within required time intervals, or that items are not over their cycle limits or time limits. Avoid the appearance of evil.

 

[727gm]

I worked for a company that used two Hobbs meters, both in plain view..

One was used for billing the customer on a government contract, connected to oil pressure on #2 engine. The customer was uncomfortable with discontinuities in Hobbs time between invoices, and wanted to relate it to hand-recorded block times and invoices. The "Rev Hobbs" breaker was pulled during flight training, MX test flights, ferry flights, etc.

There was also a Hobbs for purposes of inspection intervals/total airframe time. This "Airframe Hobbs" had a breaker to pull during time-on-jacks/powered during inspections.

The hiding of the switch sounds nefarious.

However, this person may fly an aircraft that is on leaseback to a flying school/rental club and want continuity for billing for that activity, while also flying it for a non-pilot owner. The hidden switch could shut off the Hobbs for non-revenue owner flights. The tach time would still control aircraft total airframe time/maintenance intervals.

The benefit of hiding the switch would be that the renters would not know of it or use it to take advantage. The weakness would be that some renters could still discover the existence of this switch in the Form 337 filed in the AFM supplements section and the info would spread among the more larcenous-minded members/students.

 

[Learsforsale]

I worked for a company that used two Hobbs meters, both in plain view..

One was used for billing the customer on a government contract, connected to oil pressure on #2 engine. The customer was uncomfortable with discontinuities in Hobbs time between invoices, and wanted to relate it to hand-recorded block times and invoices. The "Rev Hobbs" breaker was pulled during flight training, MX test flights, ferry flights, etc.

There was also a Hobbs for purposes of inspection intervals/total airframe time. This "Airframe Hobbs" had a breaker to pull during time-on-jacks/powered during inspections.

The hiding of the switch sounds nefarious.

However, this person may fly an aircraft that is on leaseback to a flying school/rental club and want continuity for billing for that activity, while also flying it for a non-pilot owner. The hidden switch could shut off the Hobbs for non-revenue owner flights. The tach time would still control aircraft total airframe time/maintenance intervals.

The benefit of hiding the switch would be that the renters would not know of it or use it to take advantage. The weakness would be that some renters could still discover the existence of this switch in the Form 337 filed in the AFM supplements section and the info would spread among the more larcenous-minded members/students.

It looks like someone got behind in their "Word of the day calender" and had to use two in one day.

 

[Metro752]

It looks like someone got behind in their "Word of the day calender" and had to use two in one day.

It's a shame people can't use "big werds" these days.

 

[Gatorman]

It is funny how some things come into real life right before your eyes.....

I am waiting to schedule in a Lear for a prepurchase evaluation but it has run into some problems. It seems that the owner was advertising the the aircraft engines were only 1,000 hours out of MPI and all was well. Come to find out that the pilot was an honest man and certian information had made it's rounds back to the buyer. The pilot told the buyer that the owner told the pilot to only record 1 hour out of every 3 hours flown. Sure enough, it was true.
However, the owner claims that the pilot was angry at the owner and wanted a way to get back at him and made up the lie about the 1 for 3 hours.

So, you may be thinking to yourself....who is telling the truth?

Little did the owner know about his aircraft that the engines contained DEECs and have recorded the hours of operation.....hence the pilot was telling the truth and the owner is a rat finck.


True story.