Delta to Drop CHQ?

[blackbox]

There's a huge difference between averaging existing rates (blended) and just rolling over and agreeing to fly a 70 seat aircraft for 50 seat rates (bended).

yeah the difference is about 5 bucks an hour (second year pay) in favor of Skywest. and thats on the -700, you blend it with the -200 pay and the difference is even greater.

 

[blackbox]

Never happen. DL will sink before that happens. We are working on a 100 seat pay rate anyway, and we won't give up on scope. ALL of the FOs and half of the Captains will agree.


Bye Bye--General Lee

I hope so, I just heard NW pilots gave up scope on 76 seaters. and historically NW pilots are probably one of the more tougher groups to deal with.

 

[General Lee]

I hope so, I just heard NW pilots gave up scope on 76 seaters. and historically NW pilots are probably one of the more tougher groups to deal with.

I thought it was 70 seaters. That seems more plausible.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[PBRstreetgang]

I don't hate everyone, I just am direct and to the point with my opinions. I think we at DL have a lot wrong too, and I have stated such. And, these are just my opinions, so try to remember that. The SkyWest pilot group has it's head up it's a$$. What's with their "union" and why does management appoint the leaders? Is that wrong or what? Ridiculous. And they started the whole "we'll fly anything for one pay rate" deal and now others have been FORCED to follow (via a judge).


Bye Bye--General Lee

Well gEneral tool,
As usual you are quick with the half truths. Opinions? well you can think that the "SKYW pilot group has its head up its a$$" Well, do you wonder why alot of people think you are the fool, if not outright stupid? It's statments like that, that don't do anybody any good. Union, we do not have one, it is an association, and no they are not appointed by managment. What is wrong, is your stupid hate quest, You are a foolish little man(not referring to your physical size, you are a large man with a little mans complex. Regardless what you may think we do not lay awake at night worrying that the general tool is not happy with us as a pilot group. And as far as the anything for one pay rate, well we have a large percentage of our group who were recently hired and believed that managment was telling the truth about costs and "that it was only for 18 months" that is being relived on a continual basis, our pilot group may be young and have less experience than alot of mainline pilots, but they are not stupid and learn from their mistakes, unlike you. You really should worry about your own house and stop grinding on people who have no say on the dealings between two company's execs. Its OK to be scared, your company and your career are hanging by a tread, It is not my fault your company wants to replace you with connection outsourcing, do you think I should quit my job in protest over the connection outsourcing? I will tell you what, it's your $hitty attitude that will make it easier for the young pilots to not even think twice about taking your job.
PBR

 

[737 Pylt]

Well gEneral tool,
As usual you are quick with the half truths. Opinions? well you can think that the "SKYW pilot group has its head up its a$$" Well, do you wander why alot of people think you are the fool, if not outright stupid?

Sorry, but where is the general wandering off to?? Did he get lost along the way! LMAO! Sorry, but after reading the above, I couldn't get past that to read the rest of your post!
737

 

[blackbox]

Thanks for responding. First off, again, I don't dislike anyone at SkyWest except a few malcontents on this board, and they probably don't like me either. Oh well. I am sure your company is fun to fly for, and you get to fly nice shiny jets to beautiful places out West.(and a little East from ORD) That "fun" will only last so long, until you get kids or buy a large home. Then you will realize that you are getting paid less than you are actually worth. You and others like to bring up that we are paid the same for certain aircraft. What you don't bring up is that the smaller aircraft were brought UP to the wages of the larger aircraft. We used to get paid differently for the 757 and 767--by a lot. Then, during the 777 pay rate negotiations, we brought the 757 UP to equal the 767. The 737-200 was the same, and it was a lot lower at Delta Express in MCO, until we raised the rates and brought them back into mainline. Now a days, yes, we are having problems, and our rates have been lowered, once permanently and the second is temporary. That is what happens when your company tanks after 9-11 and your management (who are all gone almost) provides poor strategies. Your company, on the otherhand, has had great profits (thanks to us with the fuel) and besides a profit sharing check (that is not guaranteed), will not show you respect and will whipsaw you with newly aquired ASA. Your inhouse "union" is a joke, with people appointed by management. That doesn't sound good. I hope someday you get a raise on the larger aircraft and get a real union (Teamsters or ALPA) that will fight for you without being appointed by management.

Bye Bye--General Lee

I dont work for skywest.......and its great to hear that Delta was able to bring up the rates from the smaller equipment to match the larger ones.

If skywest had a union, would you be making these same comments? I dont get it, what if they had ALPA on property, would that change your view of them? like i said before, SKywest's work rules and pay are better than most APLA and teamster carriers, so whats the big deal of them notbeing union. SWA and UPS are in the same boat as far as union goes, dont they? They seem to be doing pretty good. wouldnt u say?

 

[blackbox]

I thought it was 70 seaters. That seems more plausible.


Bye Bye--General Lee

i think the scope language said 76 seats or less, so thats why i said 76 seater, you smart@ss!

 

[FDJ2]

i think the scope language said 76 seats or less, so thats why i said 76 seater, you smart@ss!

Have you read the TA?

 

[General Lee]

Well gEneral tool,
As usual you are quick with the half truths. Opinions? well you can think that the "SKYW pilot group has its head up its a$$" Well, do you wander why alot of people think you are the fool, if not outright stupid? It's statments like that, that don't do anybody any good. Union, we do not have one, it is an association, and no they are not appointed by managment. What is wrong, is your stupid hate quest, You are a foolish little man(not referring to your physical size, you are a large man with a little mans complex. Regardless what you may think we do not lay awake at night worrying that the general tool is not happy with us as a pilot group. And as far as the anything for one pay rate, well we have a large percentage of our group who were recently hired and believed that managment was telling the truth about costs and "that it was only for 18 months" that is being relived on a continual basis, our pilot group may be young and have less experience than alot of mainline pilots, but they are not stupid and learn from their mistakes, unlike you. You really should worry about your own house and stop grinding on people who have no say on the dealings between two company's execs. Its OK to be scared, your company and your career are hanging by a tread, It is not my fault your company wants to replace you with connection outsourcing, do you think I should quit my job in protest over the connection outsourcing? I will tell you what, it's your $hitty attitude that will make it easier for the young pilots to not even think twice about taking your job.
PBR

Oh don't worry, Mookie already reemed me for stating that the "union" or association is NOT appointed by management. I got it. But, I do have a question that Mookie never did get back to me with an answer. Who pays for those "association" leaders? ALPA pays our MEC members when they skip trips for union work. What about your association? Who pays them? I am really curious. Also, do they get a lot of credit time, or in other words, are they compensated well? I, along with every ALPA member pay for Duane Wuerth and his cohorts. Who pays for your association leaders? Just curious!!!! And, I have a great attitude, and I love the job. Tootles, and please answer the question.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

i think the scope language said 76 seats or less, so thats why i said 76 seater, you smart@ss!

Smarta$$? I was just asking a question. You need to lighten up francis bean.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Mercyful Fate]

Who let the General out of the penalty box?

 

[sleddriver77]

...and we won't give up on scope. ALL of the FOs and half of the Captains will agree.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Uh Huh. It only takes the top 51% to sell the bottom 49% up the river. Ask a USAir guy. Betcha the other half of those captains change their mind on that when approached with further paycuts and/or displacements to a smaller airplane. But, what do I know?

 

[Rogue5]

Oh don't worry, Mookie already reemed me for stating that the "union" or association is NOT appointed by management. I got it. But, I do have a question that Mookie never did get back to me with an answer.

Mookie? Christ on a crutch, General, via two posts on this thread and a PM it was me, not Mookie, that corrected you. I don't know if I have the stamina to keep up with all your mistakes...

One begins to get the image that you don't even take the time to gloss over the responses to your posts before you launch off on another tirade to prove your preconceived ideals. Over the years and THOUSANDS of posts I've seen a pattern appear: you repeatedly state the same "talking points" (i.e. the "insulated" comment by Reber, and now this idea that SAPA reps are appointed by management), you avoid the actual criticisms level at you, your "facts," and your premises in those responses made directly to you, and then amazingly you personally belittle your critics by claiming they won't engage in a real debate with you. The problem is, just because you stamp you feet the hardest and talk over everyone else does not make you correct. It just makes you one man with a very loud opinion.

You told me in your response to me correcting you (and forgive me if this not OK to share) that your "source" in SLC told you SAPA reps were appointed by management. How can this be? Does this person even work for SkyWest? This person is certainly not a pilot here for this lack of basic knowledge of how SkyWest works shows they have no true insight to the operations here. But for you it seems, this was no matter, their statement fit nicely with your crusade currently in progress, never mind the facts... Did they tell you SkyWest possesses WMD as well?

Your ability to stay "on message" and play fast a loose with the facts would make some in the major cable news networks proud. Do you have a second career in the information industry?

 

[General Lee]

Mookie? Christ on a crutch, General, via two posts on this thread and a PM it was me, not Mookie, that corrected you. I don't know if I have the stamina to keep up with all your mistakes...

One begins to get the image that you don't even take the time to gloss over the responses to your posts before you launch off on another tirade to prove your preconceived ideals. Over the years and THOUSANDS of posts I've seen a pattern appear: you repeatedly state the same "talking points" (i.e. the "insulated" comment by Reber, and now this idea that SAPA reps are appointed by management), you avoid the actual criticisms level at you, your "facts," and your premises in those responses made directly to you, and then amazingly you personally belittle your critics by claiming they won't engage in a real debate with you. The problem is, just because you stamp you feet the hardest and talk over everyone else does not make you correct. It just makes you one man with a very loud opinion.

You told me in your response to me correcting you (and forgive me if this not OK to share) that your "source" in SLC told you SAPA reps were appointed by management. How can this be? Does this person even work for SkyWest? This person is certainly not a pilot here for this lack of basic knowledge of how SkyWest works shows they have no true insight to the operations here. But for you it seems, this was no matter, their statement fit nicely with your crusade currently in progress, never mind the facts... Did they tell you SkyWest possesses WMD as well?

Your ability to stay "on message" and play fast a loose with the facts would make some in the major cable news networks proud. Do you have a second career in the information industry?

Wow, I must have been drunk, YES it WAS ROUGUE5 WHO INFORMED ME THAT THE ASSOCIATION LEADERS WERE NOT APPOINTED BY MANAGEMENT. You guys all sound the same, so I mixed you up. Sorry. And, can you please answer my question about how your association guys get paid? I really want to know. ALPA members pay ultimately for MEC members when they drop trips for ALPA work. Who pays for your association leaders, and are they paid well? I'd really like to know. Sorry about the prior mix up.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Rogue5]

We all sound the same? Maybe there's a reason...

In other news: Here's your answer Gen, in the level of detail a regular old line pilot knows: SAPA reps are paid a min guarantee by the company. I don't know exactly how it works but I think its something like a reserve pilot guarantee of say, XXX hours (I don't know the exact number). If you fly the line/travel for work/attend meetings in excess of that guarantee, you get paid the extra. I am not certain of exactly how it works, but it is along those lines.

Feel free to address any of my or other's questions/points to you in a return gesture. At least attempt to before continuing the witch-hunt...

 

[General Lee]

Uh Huh. It only takes the top 51% to sell the bottom 49% up the river. Ask a USAir guy. Betcha the other half of those captains change their mind on that when approached with further paycuts and/or displacements to a smaller airplane. But, what do I know?

2300 of those really senior, loyal, Captains just retired. Everyone left has been touched by scope in the last 5 years.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

We all sound the same? Maybe there's a reason...

In other news: Here's your answer Gen, in the level of detail a regular old line pilot knows: SAPA reps are paid a min guarantee by the company. I don't know exactly how it works but I think its something like a reserve pilot guarantee of say, XXX hours (I don't know the exact number). If you fly the line/travel for work/attend meetings in excess of that guarantee, you get paid the extra. I am not certain of exactly how it works, but it is along those lines.

Feel free to address any of my or other's questions/points to you in a return gesture. At least attempt to before continuing the witch-hunt...

Thanks Mookie, I mean Rogue5.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ilinipilot]

Spare in SLC will not solve any problems, what happens when a plane breaks in LGA fly one out there from SLC. I dont think so. I dont like having the spares in IND or CMH either but the are closer to everything including UAL ops if we need one there.

 

[SlapShot]

A DAL painted aircraft does not due us any good for the United operation.

If there is a DAL painted spare, it does no good sitting on the ramp in CMH. The generic painted airplanes SHOULD be the spares whenever possible, but that does not seem to work out.

 

[Illinois]

General,

SAPA
My understanding is two people in SAPA are paid 105H/month to do the association stuff, and rep's are paid line values or company business(4/day) whichevers greater when doing SAPA stuff.

50-99 SEAT RATES
This was pretty dumb. Many voted in favor of this a few years ago because it was believed flying would otherwise be lost. It was implied by management, and sold by some vocal SAPA types that it would only be 18 months.

POST 18 MONTH PERIOD
Offer of 1.2% raise for EMB-120 and CL-65(200-900), and if memory serves the 100+ scale would have been eliminated. The proposed scales were overwhelmingly turned down by the pilot group. I think we are trying to correct the mistake made last time. Do we get any point's for that? There isn't any pilot I've talked to that wants to drive the 900 in any configuration without a good increase in pay. As for the 1.2 offered before...probably will not be made again.

I think where you and I disagree is that you are predisposed to the management vs. labor mentality. You want everyone to be equally pissed, scared, and uncertain. I know...you'll be plenty happy in the left seat of the mad dog, and your wife is hot. It's a drag what you guys are faced with in ATL. SKYW isn't the place it was a few years ago either, but I don't think the management at my company is evil. Jerry Atkin & Ron (Insulated) Reber got Skywest the best contracts from United and Delta they could. Is it SKYW's fault for asking to be covered on fuel or your rock star managers for agreeing to it?

Later.

P.S. Does your wife have any sister's?

 

[General Lee]

Illinois,

Thanks for the response. I understand it was a good business deal, for SkyWest only. But, that is what they are supposed to do, get good deals. Ron "Insulated" Reber, though, likes to brag aloud that high fuel doesn't bother him, while his major partners are getting killed. Then he brags how well SkyWest is doing, when at the same time he could give his employees difference pay for larger aircraft--something everyone else does, except Comair now that they had to follow your lead. I am not mad at you per se', rather what your whole group did as a whole, which was change the landscape of negotiations for the Regionals. Jetblue did the same thing for 100 seaters, of course their pilots did not set that rate, their management did. Nevertheless, now everyone has to start with the Jetblue benchmark when negotiating for anything close to 100 seats. SkyWest set the benchmark for one pay rate fits all jets up to 99 seats. And your "association" sounds like it is closely tied to management---with the pay and 100+ hours a month pay for the leaders. It just sounds like a strange relationship. IF you lost that 1.2% pay raise because of the proposed 100 seat rate combined with your last agreement, then good for you. That is a step in the right direction.

And yes, my hot wife has two sisters---one just graduated from USC, and the other is a nurse in NYC.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[JJs Cantina]

A DAL painted aircraft does not due us any good for the United operation.

If there is a DAL painted spare, it does no good sitting on the ramp in CMH. The generic painted airplanes SHOULD be the spares whenever possible, but that does not seem to work out.

I saw a united CHQ painted airplane (with the united stickers torn off) flying the delta system, and for quite some time. So dont tell me the paint job dictates where a plane is sent.

 

[sleddriver77]

2300 of those really senior, loyal, Captains just retired. Everyone left has been touched by scope in the last 5 years.

Bye Bye--General Lee

So THAT's why everybody's being recalled!!!

 

[SYX328]

We do have a bunch of generic 145/135's floating around generally as spares. Also to cover charter ops. Our generic planes are pretty much just blue and white.

 

[Illinois]

General,

It wasn't just a good deal for Skywest. Delta gets something out of it! Maybe it was an ok deal for Delta. Maybe it was the best of the worst. But I'd bet my salary against yours that your managers would do it again. I doubt Delta's board would sign-off on something that only produces gains for another entity. It is disingenuous to imply otherwise.

Reber brags about the fuel agreement? Have you heard him speak during anything besides an investors call? I haven't. What would you expect him to say when institutional investers ask him about how fuel prices effect SKYW? You need to quit trying to stir up a hornet's nest with this "bragging" stuff. That's what a successful company does during a conference call, big guy!

What regional did you work for? How long were you there?

 

[Illinois]

My apologies to everyone for the hijack.

I don't think CHQ is going to paint over the Delta colors anytime soon.

 

[joe_pilot]

Sorry, but where is the general wandering off to?? Did he get lost along the way! LMAO! Sorry, but after reading the above, I couldn't get past that to read the rest of your post!
737

Yeah, I know what you mean 737. Kind of like when you misspelled miserable in this post, huh? Miserible?

I can't tell by your post if you're being a d1ck, or honestly were caught off guard by it and it made you laugh. If you were just laughing and not trying to give PBR a hard time, then I am way off base and apologize.

If you're being a d1ck, well, then bite me.

Poor grammar and bad spelling drive me crazy too, but if someone makes a small mistake, but is otherwise making a clear point (whether I agree with it or not) I’m not going to call them on it.

You people amaze me sometimes. When you can’t win on substance, you go for a technicality? 737, I don’t know that you care one way or the other about this thread, but how smart is it to laugh at someone for misspelling a word when you did the same thing. The FIRST of your posts I searched contained the error.

Once again, if you were just laughing and not trying to give PBR a hard time, then I am way off base and apologize.

Ok, I’m done now. Man, I gotta get some sleep.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Doesn't Mesas ontime/completion stink?

Yes


PHXFLYR

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Oh don't worry, Mookie already reemed me for stating that the "union" or association is NOT appointed by management. I got it. But, I do have a question that Mookie never did get back to me with an answer. Who pays for those "association" leaders? ALPA pays our MEC members when they skip trips for union work. What about your association? Who pays them? I am really curious. Also, do they get a lot of credit time, or in other words, are they compensated well? I, along with every ALPA member pay for Duane Wuerth and his cohorts. Who pays for your association leaders? Just curious!!!! And, I have a great attitude, and I love the job. Tootles, and please answer the question.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Welll,
gEneral tootles, SAPA is funded by SKYW INC. Are you suprised, I do not think that you will find many senior guys who will disagree, we get exactly what we pay for and managment gets exactly what they pay for. Are you suprised at this revelation? Oh yes, the "leaders get 105hrs of company money to deliver managments decrees, the "reps get their line credit when they are conducting the companies business, for the company, the entity that pays for their services. Any other questions?
PBR

 

[FlyingDawg]

Just heard from CHQ peeps that mother Delta is looking to drop CHQ due to costs. Not sure if this is the real deal or not, but word around the crewroom is that Bedford is going to ATL next week to negotiate rates and future business.

Anyone else heard this?

Then why is CHQ expanding service to ATL in MAY?

Just a few of the many addition in MAY:

ATL-MSY
MSY-ATL
MSY-DCA
DCA-MSY
ATL-CMH
CMH-ATL

Check dlnet if you don't believe me.

BB is in ATL on 2/28 to exand the codeshare. CHQ to open ATL base soon.

The new rumor is DL wants RAH to purchase Comair with Skywest type protections included. BB not very interested in Comair unless the CRJ700 can be transfered to ASA/SKYW, reduction in CRJ200 fleet and RAH gets longterm 170/190 rights at DL. Hows that for rumors?