Delta to Drop CHQ?

[DDpaysoff]

If it is true that Delta is going to drop Chautaqua, this whole situation is setting up perfect for Mesa to buy comair, as if they already know it is going to happen.

 

[General Lee]

In real dollars, that simply isn't true. Besides, your pilot group just stood on United's shoulders. They did the heavy lifting. If you want to talk about what Delta's accomplished on its own, the destruction of alter-ego protection in our industry would be as good a place as any to start...

Say what? United's contract came up first. What were we supposed to do, just threaten a strike before our contract came up? It actually takes TIME to get a contract negotiated. We did most of our pay raise when Delta ordered 777s before they had a pay rate, and then we added new rates to every other plane. That is how it happened. And, can you explain your theory about the destruction of "alter-ego protection"? I can't wait to debate you on this one.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

General,

What should Reber have said and done? Anyone can criticise, Sport. Let us know what you would have done differently?

Skywest gave Delta a bunch of cash, and took over their ASA RJ debt. Taking over debt isn't assuming any risk for Delta in your mind? Delta was on the ropes, and accepted Skywest's offer. Complain about DL if you don't like the terms!

I would imagine now you are going to claim labor rates are what made the deal so attractive. Well...not really. We are not the cheapest 70 seat labor or operator. Secondly, the ASA purchase and contract extension was about cash and debt. We had the cash, and SGU believes the ability to manage YOUR company's former debt.

I would now imagine that you are going to claim we are solely responsible for starting the ball down the hill regarding payrates. The 700 for 200 rate was short-sighted and dumb. No doubt! We had a bunch of folks that believed we worked in a vacuum, and SGU would change the rates later. MGT implemented the Bonus Program, and feels it is the implied reach around. Performance rewards is decent money for those eligible, but our pilot group still wants the rate issues worked out. 1.2% wasn't good enough, and we honorably said no. Yes General, 1.2 is probably gone. Feel better? Concentrating on work rules seems to be in vogue. I know...SAPA has no teeth, and you're right. Feel even better now?

You constantly choose to berate Skywest pilot's for the 700 for 200 crap. Maybe you feel that by doing so you are educating us with your broad reach via FlightInfo, and this will give us the strength to be a real pilot group someday. Or perhaps you are simply a guy who finds it easiest to build a straw man against me rather than confronting your groups short sightedness. The former is pretty foolish (almost as much as me responding) and arrogant. 50-99 seats is done. It ain't changin anymore than RJ's with mainline paint on them. Did you vote for any contract that allowed a turbo fan powered CRJ or EMB in Delta colors? I know you did, and that is where this WHOLE crap storm begins.

The answer is solidarity from here on out. No more outsourcing mainline code. No more regional vs. mainline stuff. Props to long-haul equipment should be flown by people on the same seniority list. It may be a pipe dream, but I don't see many other option with the waters so muddied.

Good day.

GLOATING is different. You know what I mean. And, I am glad you agree with me on your toothless union and loss of raises. No, that doesn't make me FEEL BETTER. I hope you eventually FIGHT for and win pay and QOL issues that you are worth. But, it is tough when the majority of your pilots want growth and can't see past a future upgrade that will not lead them to their possible desired goal of leaving a regional. In the past we all wanted PIC to get us to that ellusive "major" or now this group-SWA/FDX/UPS. Well, they all are hiring mostly Military pilots, so other riskier airlines are now coming into view, and they have a chance of floundering like the rest of us.

As far as voting for RJs at Delta (ALPA)--I just arrived at DL after the big vote for the '96 contract. My first voting contract was C2K. I wouldn't mind one large seniority list, but there would have to be some major stapling going on. That doesn't appeal to most of your senior pilots, who, like the senior guys at ASA and Comair, contend they "have been flying DL passengers all along, and deserve credit for that." Nah, that is not how it works. If we could iron that out, then maybe it could be a possibility, but managements would not allow that---they don't want the greater leverage that would bring and less whipsawing potential.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[RP170]

In my opinion, the CHQ pilots are better off not beng forced into competing for DCI flying anyway. This is going to get uglier before it gets better.

It's not personal. It's business. And pilots at our level have a lot less control over how this shakes out than we think. The race to the bottom is going to run itself out, wether we like it or not. Living in the past on these issues will not help. We could easily find ourselves once again defending positions like 737 Flight Engineers.

This race is no different than the one we all gleefully participate in, every time we buy a Chines made television at Wal-Mart instead of an American made model at a Mom&Pop appliance store.

We made this bed as a nation. Now let's sleep in it!!!

Hard to believe that CHQ is now most likely going to be considered "too costly" for DCI. Thanks Freedom. The sad thing is Mesa didn't even bid for Delta flying. They bought their way in by picking up the Dornier leases that we used to fly at ACA. JO is the worlds biggest scumbag.

 

[Illinois]

I think a 20 plus year Comair pilot should get some seniority if a merged list happened. Pre-flighting again would be too much, but they couldn't expect to keep seniority. A 6 year RJ captain should get stapled. If I have to make first year RJ pay, and sling gear for General Lee let's get on with it. It would be better for him, me, and everyone to follow.

Guys, somebody has to take a hit to right the profession. The deck is stacked in managment's favor regardless of good or bad times. The ALPA folks would have legions of pilot's behind them if they had a strategic vision other that scope!

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Throw in the fact that your junior pilots fly the left seat of the CR7 more often than the senior guys who protest, and the company gets an unexpected bonus----lower costs for the larger plane and more revenue at the same time. Ronny R, Brad H, and JA are high fiving each other right now, and wait---here comes the Comair President too---running in to join in the group high fives!! Awesome. I think Brian Lebreque is waiting to come in for ASA, and Brian Bedford at CHQ is in the crapper currently, but he will be in soon......


Bye Bye--General Lee[/QUOTE]



The only one missing the point is you! My only point to you was that your constant claims about the company's "unexpected bonus" of lower costs for the larger plane due to junior guys flying it, would be cancelled out by senior guys flying the 50 seater for higher pay!! All your other preaching is not really helpful, since some of us, myself included did not vote for the TA that allowd the same pay for both in the first place.

 

[hey]

What a surprise, another thread with people bi***ing back and forth......

yap yap yap yap yap..........

 

[rtmcfi]

As far as voting for RJs at Delta (ALPA)--I just arrived at DL after the big vote for the '96 contract. My first voting contract was C2K.

The majority of SkyWest pilots have arrived on property after the 70 seat for 50 seat pay was voted in. Most of the SkyWest pilots never voted on that "contract."

The only "contract" vote since was shot down by the the pilot group 70-30. I am willing to bet most of the pilots at SkyWest support the Delta and NWA pilots. The SkyWest pilots (the ones that frequent this site anyway) that don't support Delta probably don't support them because of you. Your incessant vitriolic hate for Ron and all things SkyWest is more likely than not a real turn-off for them. I think your harping on the "insulated from fuel prices" quote is a little out of context. Most people that read that quote will not see it as bragging, but merely a statement of fact. Truth is, they are only partially insulated.

Good luck in your battle, as all pilots, prospective and current will be affected by the outcome. You may gain some support by toning down your hate for the SkyWest guys.

 

[comrcap]

.......... I wouldn't mind one large seniority list, but there would have to be some major stapling going on. That doesn't appeal to most of your senior pilots, who, like the senior guys at ASA and Comair, contend they "have been flying DL passengers all along, and deserve credit for that." Nah, that is not how it works. If we could iron that out, then maybe it could be a possibility, but managements would not allow that---they don't want the greater leverage that would bring and less whipsawing potential.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Staple this........_________ (insert appropriate digit)
You guys had your chance with the PID and told us we were crazy. Now even a drowning man will grab an extended knife.

 

[General Lee]

Staple this........_________ (insert appropriate digit)
You guys had your chance with the PID and told us we were crazy. Now even a drowning man will grab an extended knife.

We told you guys NO WAY to DOH. I can't believe you guys thought that was an option. Give me a break!!! And, your "extended knife" comment makes no sense to me.


Bye Bye--General Lee