Delta TA Passes

[Flyer1015]

will be a lot better than this:

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=7292442&nseq=0

Kids raised on glass would be "huh?" inside that thing.

 

[SplitBar]

Genital,

Actually, I'm glad you asked. I'm knocking it out of the park this summer. The savings account is filling up nicely...thanks for asking. And at pay rates you guys still hope to get.

Scoot,

Same thing. Thanks for asking. I've been off reserve for over three years and I just got another 15/hr pay raise. I'm glad the AAI guys are coming over with possiblity of making even MORE profit sharing for all of us. You see, we have no cap on that. If it comes in at 10%, 15%, whatever. And that's on top of 9.3% company match. It's June 29th and I've already maxed out my portion of 17k.

How are you doing?

I have to completely agree with ATLplt here, we together will be better off now that the 717 and the engine problems are headed over to DL. Good luck with that. Welcome aboard ATLplt.

Why would I be bitter? I doing pretty well (see above) Just glad I don't have to wait for takeoff behind a long line of RJs that someone else flies for us. Thank God. That would drive me crazy.

No flame or adding to your guys childish argument but we were told at the DALPA contract roadshows that SWA hasn't received any raises for quite a few years and wont receive any this or next year. They showed a 10 year SWA pay raise graph and it was very flat due to their raises being tied into profit margin. If the margin isn't there then the raises don't happen. Your 15% raise would contradict what we were told. Just curious if we were fed bologna or not at the road show.

 

[SplitBar]

It just cracks me up to listen to Genital Lee's tripe about how it was ok to cave on scope this time. After all his rhetoric about standing firm on scope he sold out quicker than a Thai hooker.

I voted no but it wasn't because of scope. If you think that scope was sold out on this contract you don't understand it. Section 1 isn't just about RJ's. It's very complex at Delta. Overall I can live with what ended up section 1 in the new PWA. I was a no vote because I think a little meat was left off the bone and sending it back would have resulted in a quick fix and a few more gains. Life will go on and I can live with it nontheless.

 

[StopNTSing]

No flame or adding to your guys childish argument but we were told at the DALPA contract roadshows that SWA hasn't received any raises for quite a few years and wont receive any this or next year. They showed a 10 year SWA pay raise graph and it was very flat due to their raises being tied into profit margin. If the margin isn't there then the raises don't happen. Your 15% raise would contradict what we were told. Just curious if we were fed bologna or not at the road show.

Redflyer is probably alluding to a raise from his longevity increasing. The raises have indeed been pretty small (~2% most years, some years none) here over the last several years.

What were DALPA's numbers for our pay? If you were not told that the average 12th-yr topped-out SWA captain (that would be me, and I'm pretty lazy) makes around $225,000/year and works about 13 days a month to get it, then you were mislead. I get the impression that the focus was more on rates, instead of pay. Our trips are pretty efficient and there are few limitations on how productive you can choose to be (extra flying abounds), so rates really don't tell the whole story.

 

[RSRVWINDSURFR]

I'm tired of guys like you quipping in from the sidelines. When you raise the bar on your own maybe then you can chime in about pilots at another airline. If we did it your way, we would still be embroiled in contract negotiations, not to mention a bloody SLI negotiation. Again, when you fix all that, come on back and chime in.

Well, get used to hearing it. That's what happens when you take the first offer with strings attached to it. Do you think your management just wanted to give you guys a raise out of the kindness of their hearts? 50 seaters would have taken care of themselves. You just ushered in a huge fleet of 90 seaters without a fight! Next time the economy tanks, terrorist attack, insert bad situation here, ect., just watch how great your ratios and protections help you then.

 

[SplitBar]

Well, get used to hearing it. That's what happens when you take the first offer with strings attached to it. Do you think your management just wanted to give you guys a raise out of the kindness of their hearts? 50 seaters would have taken care of themselves. You just ushered in a huge fleet of 90 seaters without a fight! Next time the economy tanks, terrorist attack, insert bad situation here, ect., just watch how great your ratios and protections help you then.

50 seaters wouldn't have taken care of themselves anytime soon. Delta was under contract and on the hook for the 50 seaters for another 6-10 years. We didn't give up 90 seaters. The contract gets rid of 50 seaters sooner rather than later. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[RSRVWINDSURFR]

Oh, sorry 76* seaters for now...

*90 seat airframes with 76 seats...

Do you think these large RJs will be gone in 6-10 years? No? Didn't think so.

 

[SplitBar]

Oh, sorry 76* seaters for now...

*90 seat airframes with 76 seats...

Do you think these large RJs will be gone in 6-10 years? No? Didn't think so.

Keep cherry picking your rant. You have no idea what you're talking about. I'm not bashing CAL, but you went to work for one of the worst paying and worst work rule airlines out there so you really don't have any credibility as far as I'm concerned bashing others. Enjoy that stellar contract and work rules that you have.

 

[list2002]

We will enjoy our sh!t contract longer now, all previous offers yanked and going through re-evaluation by United mgmnt. Good move on Delta mgmnt part to get something done before United pilots set the bar too high. I'm sure United's mgmnt will be sending their Delta counterparts big Christmas baskets at the end of the year.
What could have been is all speculation, and maybe it wasn't all that great, regardless it doesn't sound like mgmnt wants this postDeltaTA redo to make it better.
Hope everyone at United has voted to strike, maybe we can get this thing done in the next 3 years.

 

[FDJ2]

Oh, sorry 76* seaters for now...

*90 seat airframes with 76 seats...

Do you think these large RJs will be gone in 6-10 years? No? Didn't think so.

The maximum number of 76 seat aircraft was reduced from 255 to 223.

The maximum number of 70 seat aircraft was reduced from unlimited to 102. (pesky large turboprop exemption eliminated)

The maximum number of 50 seat aircraft was reduced from unlimited to 125

The total number of fee for departure aircraft was reduced from approx. 600 to a hard cap of 450.

Mainline block hour ratios ensure a greater share of block hours within the Delta brand are flown by Delta pilots.

Furlough protection was improved, as was code-sharing and joint venture protections.

 

[Old School 737]

Pay rates link anybody please thx..

 

[DTW320]

Pay rates link anybody please thx..

Don't have a public link to them, but just go here and add 4% for 7/1, + 8.5% on 1/1/13, + 3% on 1/1/14, + 3% on 1/1/15.

Intl Override, Per Diem, Vacation,Training Pay, Reserve Guarantee all increased as well.

 

[BlueBlood]

Holy $hit, this thread is why pilots aren't cool anymore. STFU! Seriously, children. Measure your own pee-pee before calling someone else a pencil @ick.

I used to come here often but now the school children have been left unattended in the playground.

 

[SLUF4]

The maximum number of 76 seat aircraft was reduced from 255 to 223.

The maximum number of 70 seat aircraft was reduced from unlimited to 102. (pesky large turboprop exemption eliminated)

The maximum number of 50 seat aircraft was reduced from unlimited to 125

The total number of fee for departure aircraft was reduced from approx. 600 to a hard cap of 450.

Mainline block hour ratios ensure a greater share of block hours within the Delta brand are flown by Delta pilots.

Furlough protection was improved, as was code-sharing and joint venture protections.

the old contract cap was 255 max 70+76 seat jets

 

[GogglesPisano]

The maximum number of 76 seat aircraft was reduced from 255 to 223.

The maximum number of 70 seat aircraft was reduced from unlimited to 102. (pesky large turboprop exemption eliminated)

The maximum number of 50 seat aircraft was reduced from unlimited to 125

The total number of fee for departure aircraft was reduced from approx. 600 to a hard cap of 450.

Mainline block hour ratios ensure a greater share of block hours within the Delta brand are flown by Delta pilots.

Furlough protection was improved, as was code-sharing and joint venture protections.

Come on, FDJ2. You're raining on their Delta bashfest by introducing facts. Much easier for them to blame their problems on us by repeating lies over and over.

 

[PCL_128]

Boeing will actually take them first, clean them up, paint them, put in new seats, and install wifi.

Actually, they already have WiFi. We use the same WiFi system you guys do. Makes it real convenient to just purchase the GoGo monthly pass and use it on either carrier.

 

[PCL_128]

And that's on top of 9.3% company match. It's June 29th and I've already maxed out my portion of 17k.

How are you doing?

I'm sure he's doing much better, red, seeing as how he actually has a retirement plan, and we don't. All we have is a 401k. Unlike us, the General doesn't have to contribute a dime of his own money to his retirement if he doesn't want to. He gets 15% contributed to his B-Fund without him doing anything. It's all company money. If he wants to contribute anything, it all goes on top of the company's 15%. In other words, it's better than that 401k that you're bragging about. No pilot should ever brag about a 401k plan. It's embarrassing. Crappy regional contracts have 401k plans. Major airline pilots should have B-Fund pension plans. We're the only major airline that doesn't have one. AirTran had one before SWA gutted it. Maybe you should start thinking about adding that to the list for Section 6 negotiations.

 

[Dan Roman]

I'm sure he's doing much better, red, seeing as how he actually has a retirement plan, and we don't. All we have is a 401k. Unlike us, the General doesn't have to contribute a dime of his own money to his retirement if he doesn't want to. He gets 15% contributed to his B-Fund without him doing anything. It's all company money. If he wants to contribute anything, it all goes on top of the company's 15%. In other words, it's better than that 401k that you're bragging about. No pilot should ever brag about a 401k plan. It's embarrassing. Crappy regional contracts have 401k plans. Major airline pilots should have B-Fund pension plans. We're the only major airline that doesn't have one. AirTran had one before SWA gutted it. Maybe you should start thinking about adding that to the list for Section 6 negotiations.

Well said, I have to roll my eyes when SWA put out some propaganda a while back that they "had the best 401K". Hello, a 401k is only as good as what you earn and that is entirely dependent on what mutual funds you choose, period. Equally important is the amount of matching. SWA does NOT lead the industry by any stretch of the imagination,
A few years ago when SWA was establishing itself in the industry with more productivity and lower wages, one of the things you would see wall street analysts tout about SWA was, unlike most airlines, they were not burdened with expensive pilot retirement funds.

 

[PCL_128]

But they do have that "warrior spirit," Dan.

 

[FDJ2]

the old contract cap was 255 max 70+76 seat jets

Yep. 255-76 seat jets was the max. New contract, not so much.
Old contract, unlimited number of 70 seat aircraft, unlimited number of 50 seat aircraft and no mainline to DCI block hour ratios.

Oh yeah, old contract, not global joint venture protection, new contract global joint venture protections.

Worried about that 76 -seat hull, how does an unlimited number of 777/747/380s flown by other than Delta pilots feel.

 

[FDJ2]

Come on, FDJ2. You're raining on their Delta bashfest by introducing facts. Much easier for them to blame their problems on us by repeating lies over and over.

Yep. Lies, half truths and ignorance are a poor substitute for facts.

 

[SWA Bubba]

I'm sure he's doing much better, red, seeing as how he actually has a retirement plan, and we don't. All we have is a 401k. Unlike us, the General doesn't have to contribute a dime of his own money to his retirement if he doesn't want to. He gets 15% contributed to his B-Fund without him doing anything. It's all company money. If he wants to contribute anything, it all goes on top of the company's 15%. In other words, it's better than that 401k that you're bragging about. No pilot should ever brag about a 401k plan. It's embarrassing. Crappy regional contracts have 401k plans. Major airline pilots should have B-Fund pension plans. We're the only major airline that doesn't have one. AirTran had one before SWA gutted it. Maybe you should start thinking about adding that to the list for Section 6 negotiations.

That's a good point. (It's also a good point that Dan had about SWA's plan being only as good as the funds picked.) However, since PCL rightly pointed out, "it's all company money." That makes it as good as your company's future, which is not something I'd want to bet MY future on. Ask USAir guys about that, or other airlines that have liquidated or gone through BK and screwed over their retirees. That "company money" you're depending on has a bad habit of going away when you need it. I kinda' like having power over my future, you know?

Sorry to hear you're embarrassed to be associated with SWA, PCL. You realize that you DO have the power to change that, don't you?

Bubba

 

[waveflyer]

The maximum number of 76 seat aircraft was reduced from 255 to 223.
FALSE
The maximum number of 70 seat aircraft was reduced from unlimited to 102. (pesky large turboprop exemption eliminated)
FALSE
The maximum number of 50 seat aircraft was reduced from unlimited to 125
True
The total number of fee for departure aircraft was reduced from approx. 600 to a hard cap of 450.
true
Mainline block hour ratios ensure a greater share of block hours within the Delta brand are flown by Delta pilots.
true
Furlough protection was improved, as was code-sharing and joint venture protections.
True

the first two points are not facts as I understand them- please post the language, but "chairman..." thread refuted these

 

[waveflyer]

Yep. 255-76 seat jets was the max. New contract, not so much.
Old contract, unlimited number of 70 seat aircraft, unlimited number of 50 seat aircraft and no mainline to DCI block hour ratios.

Oh yeah, old contract, not global joint venture protection, new contract global joint venture protections.

Worried about that 76 -seat hull, how does an unlimited number of 777/747/380s flown by other than Delta pilots feel.

You're wrong. Previous contract was a max of 255 70+76 seaters. Delta absolutely could not outsource unlimited 70 seaters.

You vote yes based on that??

Bc there were too many posts on that very subject to end up ignorant.

 

[Buzo]

It was 255 51+ -76 seat jets, of which 153 could be 71+ seat jets. There was not limit on 70 or 76 seat turbo props.

 

[PCL_128]

However, since PCL rightly pointed out, "it's all company money." That makes it as good as your company's future, which is not something I'd want to bet MY future on. Ask USAir guys about that, or other airlines that have liquidated or gone through BK and screwed over their retirees. That "company money" you're depending on has a bad habit of going away when you need it. I kinda' like having power over my future, you know?

Wrong! This is what's so frustrating with you guys. You are adamantly opposed to something that you don't understand. With a B-Fund pension, the money is all yours. Doesn't matter if the company goes into bankruptcy. The money is in your own personal account that can't be touched, just like a 401k. The only difference from a 401k is that you didn't have to put any money into it. The company had to put the money in whether you contributed a dime or not. In Delta's case, it's 15% of gross earnings. The company makes the entire contribution, and then it's your money in your own account, untouchable by bankruptcy or anything else.

Let's get a real retirement plan!

 

[vixin]

I hate to say it but PCL is correct on the B plan. It amazes how little SWA pilots understand the difference between a B plan and A plan.

On another note. I don't expect PCL to fly one day at SWA. It is such a horrible place to work.

 

[FDJ2]

You're wrong. Previous contract was a max of 255 70+76 seaters. Delta absolutely could not outsource unlimited 70 seaters.

You vote yes based on that??

Bc there were too many posts on that very subject to end up ignorant.

Your confusion is based on the fact that you don't understand the old contract or the new contract.

The old contract allowed up to 255 70+76 seat jets. Which begs the question, what happens when the 70 seaters are allowed to be converted to 76 seaters.

Yep, a total of 255 76-seat jets. New contract, that potential no longer exists.

Old contract allowed an unlimited number of 70 seat large turbo props. New contract, not so much.

Overall DCI footprint on the Delta brand, departures, block hours, seats are significantly reduced in a short time period. Overall mainline footprint increased.

Added bonus, since no more than 85% of DCI flying can be above 900sm and DCI will be flying significantly less, fewer long DCI flight segments, replaced by, drum roll please, mainline flights.

 

[SplitBar]

That's a good point. (It's also a good point that Dan had about SWA's plan being only as good as the funds picked.) However, since PCL rightly pointed out, "it's all company money." That makes it as good as your company's future, which is not something I'd want to bet MY future on. Ask USAir guys about that, or other airlines that have liquidated or gone through BK and screwed over their retirees. That "company money" you're depending on has a bad habit of going away when you need it. I kinda' like having power over my future, you know?

Sorry to hear you're embarrassed to be associated with SWA, PCL. You realize that you DO have the power to change that, don't you?

Bubba

Bubba, just like a 401K, we own our B fund. No matter what happens to the company down the road our B fund can't be touch. It's not in some pension fund that can disappear. It's no different than a 401K except that Delta puts 15% into it without putting a dime into it. That saves me $1500 a month by not having to fund a 401K. Oh, we also get 2% put into a 401K without us having to put in a dime so we really get 17%.

 

[SLUF4]

so your argument is that there would have been a ton of 70 seat turboprops flying around if we had kept our old TA? yeah right. you see how well the Q400 is doing. That's like when a friend of mine asked his rep why we couldn't just live with the way it's written now. His response: "maybe they'll develop a more efficient 50 seat jet". Amazing. How many 70 seat turboprops are flying for us now? How many 70+76 seat jets are flying now?