Delta TA Passes

[PCL_128]

Boeing will actually take them first, clean them up, paint them, put in new seats, and install wifi.

Actually, they already have WiFi. We use the same WiFi system you guys do. Makes it real convenient to just purchase the GoGo monthly pass and use it on either carrier.

 

[PCL_128]

And that's on top of 9.3% company match. It's June 29th and I've already maxed out my portion of 17k.

How are you doing?

I'm sure he's doing much better, red, seeing as how he actually has a retirement plan, and we don't. All we have is a 401k. Unlike us, the General doesn't have to contribute a dime of his own money to his retirement if he doesn't want to. He gets 15% contributed to his B-Fund without him doing anything. It's all company money. If he wants to contribute anything, it all goes on top of the company's 15%. In other words, it's better than that 401k that you're bragging about. No pilot should ever brag about a 401k plan. It's embarrassing. Crappy regional contracts have 401k plans. Major airline pilots should have B-Fund pension plans. We're the only major airline that doesn't have one. AirTran had one before SWA gutted it. Maybe you should start thinking about adding that to the list for Section 6 negotiations.

 

[Dan Roman]

I'm sure he's doing much better, red, seeing as how he actually has a retirement plan, and we don't. All we have is a 401k. Unlike us, the General doesn't have to contribute a dime of his own money to his retirement if he doesn't want to. He gets 15% contributed to his B-Fund without him doing anything. It's all company money. If he wants to contribute anything, it all goes on top of the company's 15%. In other words, it's better than that 401k that you're bragging about. No pilot should ever brag about a 401k plan. It's embarrassing. Crappy regional contracts have 401k plans. Major airline pilots should have B-Fund pension plans. We're the only major airline that doesn't have one. AirTran had one before SWA gutted it. Maybe you should start thinking about adding that to the list for Section 6 negotiations.

Well said, I have to roll my eyes when SWA put out some propaganda a while back that they "had the best 401K". Hello, a 401k is only as good as what you earn and that is entirely dependent on what mutual funds you choose, period. Equally important is the amount of matching. SWA does NOT lead the industry by any stretch of the imagination,
A few years ago when SWA was establishing itself in the industry with more productivity and lower wages, one of the things you would see wall street analysts tout about SWA was, unlike most airlines, they were not burdened with expensive pilot retirement funds.

 

[PCL_128]

But they do have that "warrior spirit," Dan.

 

[FDJ2]

the old contract cap was 255 max 70+76 seat jets

Yep. 255-76 seat jets was the max. New contract, not so much.
Old contract, unlimited number of 70 seat aircraft, unlimited number of 50 seat aircraft and no mainline to DCI block hour ratios.

Oh yeah, old contract, not global joint venture protection, new contract global joint venture protections.

Worried about that 76 -seat hull, how does an unlimited number of 777/747/380s flown by other than Delta pilots feel.

 

[FDJ2]

Come on, FDJ2. You're raining on their Delta bashfest by introducing facts. Much easier for them to blame their problems on us by repeating lies over and over.

Yep. Lies, half truths and ignorance are a poor substitute for facts.

 

[SWA Bubba]

I'm sure he's doing much better, red, seeing as how he actually has a retirement plan, and we don't. All we have is a 401k. Unlike us, the General doesn't have to contribute a dime of his own money to his retirement if he doesn't want to. He gets 15% contributed to his B-Fund without him doing anything. It's all company money. If he wants to contribute anything, it all goes on top of the company's 15%. In other words, it's better than that 401k that you're bragging about. No pilot should ever brag about a 401k plan. It's embarrassing. Crappy regional contracts have 401k plans. Major airline pilots should have B-Fund pension plans. We're the only major airline that doesn't have one. AirTran had one before SWA gutted it. Maybe you should start thinking about adding that to the list for Section 6 negotiations.

That's a good point. (It's also a good point that Dan had about SWA's plan being only as good as the funds picked.) However, since PCL rightly pointed out, "it's all company money." That makes it as good as your company's future, which is not something I'd want to bet MY future on. Ask USAir guys about that, or other airlines that have liquidated or gone through BK and screwed over their retirees. That "company money" you're depending on has a bad habit of going away when you need it. I kinda' like having power over my future, you know?

Sorry to hear you're embarrassed to be associated with SWA, PCL. You realize that you DO have the power to change that, don't you?

Bubba

 

[waveflyer]

The maximum number of 76 seat aircraft was reduced from 255 to 223.
FALSE
The maximum number of 70 seat aircraft was reduced from unlimited to 102. (pesky large turboprop exemption eliminated)
FALSE
The maximum number of 50 seat aircraft was reduced from unlimited to 125
True
The total number of fee for departure aircraft was reduced from approx. 600 to a hard cap of 450.
true
Mainline block hour ratios ensure a greater share of block hours within the Delta brand are flown by Delta pilots.
true
Furlough protection was improved, as was code-sharing and joint venture protections.
True

the first two points are not facts as I understand them- please post the language, but "chairman..." thread refuted these

 

[waveflyer]

Yep. 255-76 seat jets was the max. New contract, not so much.
Old contract, unlimited number of 70 seat aircraft, unlimited number of 50 seat aircraft and no mainline to DCI block hour ratios.

Oh yeah, old contract, not global joint venture protection, new contract global joint venture protections.

Worried about that 76 -seat hull, how does an unlimited number of 777/747/380s flown by other than Delta pilots feel.

You're wrong. Previous contract was a max of 255 70+76 seaters. Delta absolutely could not outsource unlimited 70 seaters.

You vote yes based on that??

Bc there were too many posts on that very subject to end up ignorant.

 

[Buzo]

It was 255 51+ -76 seat jets, of which 153 could be 71+ seat jets. There was not limit on 70 or 76 seat turbo props.

 

[PCL_128]

However, since PCL rightly pointed out, "it's all company money." That makes it as good as your company's future, which is not something I'd want to bet MY future on. Ask USAir guys about that, or other airlines that have liquidated or gone through BK and screwed over their retirees. That "company money" you're depending on has a bad habit of going away when you need it. I kinda' like having power over my future, you know?

Wrong! This is what's so frustrating with you guys. You are adamantly opposed to something that you don't understand. With a B-Fund pension, the money is all yours. Doesn't matter if the company goes into bankruptcy. The money is in your own personal account that can't be touched, just like a 401k. The only difference from a 401k is that you didn't have to put any money into it. The company had to put the money in whether you contributed a dime or not. In Delta's case, it's 15% of gross earnings. The company makes the entire contribution, and then it's your money in your own account, untouchable by bankruptcy or anything else.

Let's get a real retirement plan!

 

[vixin]

I hate to say it but PCL is correct on the B plan. It amazes how little SWA pilots understand the difference between a B plan and A plan.

On another note. I don't expect PCL to fly one day at SWA. It is such a horrible place to work.

 

[FDJ2]

You're wrong. Previous contract was a max of 255 70+76 seaters. Delta absolutely could not outsource unlimited 70 seaters.

You vote yes based on that??

Bc there were too many posts on that very subject to end up ignorant.

Your confusion is based on the fact that you don't understand the old contract or the new contract.

The old contract allowed up to 255 70+76 seat jets. Which begs the question, what happens when the 70 seaters are allowed to be converted to 76 seaters.

Yep, a total of 255 76-seat jets. New contract, that potential no longer exists.

Old contract allowed an unlimited number of 70 seat large turbo props. New contract, not so much.

Overall DCI footprint on the Delta brand, departures, block hours, seats are significantly reduced in a short time period. Overall mainline footprint increased.

Added bonus, since no more than 85% of DCI flying can be above 900sm and DCI will be flying significantly less, fewer long DCI flight segments, replaced by, drum roll please, mainline flights.

 

[SplitBar]

That's a good point. (It's also a good point that Dan had about SWA's plan being only as good as the funds picked.) However, since PCL rightly pointed out, "it's all company money." That makes it as good as your company's future, which is not something I'd want to bet MY future on. Ask USAir guys about that, or other airlines that have liquidated or gone through BK and screwed over their retirees. That "company money" you're depending on has a bad habit of going away when you need it. I kinda' like having power over my future, you know?

Sorry to hear you're embarrassed to be associated with SWA, PCL. You realize that you DO have the power to change that, don't you?

Bubba

Bubba, just like a 401K, we own our B fund. No matter what happens to the company down the road our B fund can't be touch. It's not in some pension fund that can disappear. It's no different than a 401K except that Delta puts 15% into it without putting a dime into it. That saves me $1500 a month by not having to fund a 401K. Oh, we also get 2% put into a 401K without us having to put in a dime so we really get 17%.

 

[SLUF4]

so your argument is that there would have been a ton of 70 seat turboprops flying around if we had kept our old TA? yeah right. you see how well the Q400 is doing. That's like when a friend of mine asked his rep why we couldn't just live with the way it's written now. His response: "maybe they'll develop a more efficient 50 seat jet". Amazing. How many 70 seat turboprops are flying for us now? How many 70+76 seat jets are flying now?