Delta TA impact on Delta Connection...

[JustaNumber]

Thread drift: BH is not the ExpressJet CEO. He is the president of ExpressJet.

Oops--my mistake. Thanks for the correction.

 

[79%N1]

Those were own by Pinnacle, they are going back to whoever finance it, along with the Q400. It possible Delta can pick them up and give it to whoever. But since Delta doesn't own it like the 200's they can't just take them from us and give it to someone else.

But they can park them. Not saying they will, and we will all have many parked.

 

[JustaNumber]

You are the second lowest, according to the 15 year ASA signed as part of the Skywest purchase of ASA from Delta.

...which was signed in 2005, and should extend until 2020. The question is, does this contract entitle us to keep flying all of our current aircraft for the duration of that contract? (If not, it wouldn't be much of a contract). If we are under contract to provide this flying, this could explain why Brad didn't feel the need to mention anything about 50's going away. Does anyone have more specific details of the contract?

 

[Nevets]

...which was signed in 2005, and should extend until 2020. The question is, does this contract entitle us to keep flying all of our current aircraft for the duration of that contract? (If not, it wouldn't be much of a contract). If we are under contract to provide this flying, this could explain why Brad didn't feel the need to mention anything about 50's going away. Does anyone have more specific details of the contract?

I'll go look at it if I get motivated to. But my guess is that they are tied to the head lease of the aircraft or the end of the ASA, whichever occurs first.

 

[cbrown1]

I'd rather have honesty. Tell people they will downgrade or possibly lose their job so they can get an early start on a new path. All this guessing is B.S. Leadership means to give direction. The Lt. may not say we're eff'd, but he can say we're not going to make it if we stay on this path....this is where we need to go, and then lead the way.
Now, I know it's early and nobody has a clue, but we all know XJT DAL is probably the most expensive has has little to no chance of securing anything to replace the massive 50's about to be lost. I get the optimism, but I'd rather the dudes in the crows nest of the Titanic tell me we are about to hit the iceburg and the boat is going to sink. Then we could all head for the life rafts before it's too late!

It's Delta, when it comes to the regionals assume the worse.

 

[JustaNumber]

I'll go look at it if I get motivated to.

Where can you get access to the ASA? The specifics in it could answer just about all the questions we have here, including whether we get to keep our jobs!

 

[Nevets]

Where can you get access to the ASA? The specifics in it could answer just about all the questions we have here, including whether we get to keep our jobs!

I found a redacted version on sec.gov.

 

[No Delay]

Everyone keeps saying PNCL will get the majority of new flying because Delta controls them now.

Doesn't Delta own and control Comair?

 

[Oakum_Boy]

You are the second lowest, according to the 15 year ASA signed as part of the Skywest purchase of ASA from Delta.

Well, we were SUPPOSED to be the second lowest. We missed that target. The result being we are being compensated as the second lowest regardless of our actual cost position.

 

[silver02ex]

Everyone keeps saying PNCL will get the majority of new flying because Delta controls them now.

Doesn't Delta own and control Comair?

Yes, but my guess is since Pinnacle is in BK, with the new contract at Pinnacle, it will be much cheaper for Pinnacle to operate it than Comair. When Mesaba was in BK they recieved 36 CRJ 900 and not Pinnacle. I'm just going by a guess and what happened in the past.

 

[bigshooter107]

But again, does delta want to pony up the cash for leases.... Or allow Skywest to do it.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

XJET will sign a good JCBA, and 10 months later announce the bankruptcy. That's the only way forward, ladies and gentlemen. We'll shed some 50's, gut every vendor contract, stop paying for hotels, and wind up in the Knights Inn with GoJet crews. We'll even have flight attendants sleeping in the hallways again because they're cleaner than the rooms.

I'm pretty sure that's the route Inc. Is going to go with this. They'll keep their brand out of it. The bean counters already have a plan for this I can assure you. We're not profitable anyhow so it won't take much voodoo.

BH has been saying this in virtually every update. Cost, cost, costs....he never actually refers to how to achieve the level of cost reductions he's looking for.

if you're in the bottom half of the list, it's time to look elsewhere. If you're under 40, time to get a new career unless you want to wait another five years to start all over again.

Cheers--

 

[Nevets]

Well, we were SUPPOSED to be the second lowest. We missed that target. The result being we are being compensated as the second lowest regardless of our actual cost position.

Yes, thats exactly what I meant. To delta, you are the second lowest, and thats all that matters to them. They don't care that your cost are higher than your revenue. You are the second lowest cost for them. This is the deal JA made with delta back in 05. Theyve known about it since day one. This is why they bought XJT and were supposedly benevolent enough to merge it with ASA. It wasn't because XJT was going bk. If that was really the case, they would have just waited and bought them in a bk bargain with abrogated labor contracts.

By the way, in the last earnings call, BR said XJT was cash flow positive.

 

[General Lee]

I can't believe I'm saying this but the General could be my very good friend now...
sarcasm of course...

If the TA goes thru, then Dear General, could you walk my resume in? (wink..wink).

F YEAH!


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Nevets]

This is what I found after a real quick glance. I didn't find the list of expiration dates for the aircraft leases.

F. Partial Termination. Notwithstanding anything herein to the contrary, effective at any time after the seventh (7th) anniversary of the Effective Date, Delta shall have the right to remove from the scope of this Agreement each Aircraft effective upon the date that the lease, mortgage or other financing arrangement with respect to such Aircraft in effect as of the Effective Date expires by providing ASA with at least twelve (12) months’ prior written notice.

 

[Freebrd]

Everyone keeps saying PNCL will get the majority of new flying because Delta controls them now.

Doesn't Delta own and control Comair?

Big D still has that hard-on for that CMR strike

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Shot themselves in both feet with that strike. We are all paying for that one.

 

[777forever]

XJET will sign a good JCBA, and 10 months later announce the bankruptcy. That's the only way forward, ladies and gentlemen. We'll shed some 50's, gut every vendor contract, stop paying for hotels, and wind up in the Knights Inn with GoJet crews. We'll even have flight attendants sleeping in the hallways again because they're cleaner than the rooms.

I'm pretty sure that's the route Inc. Is going to go with this. They'll keep their brand out of it. The bean counters already have a plan for this I can assure you. We're not profitable anyhow so it won't take much voodoo.

BH has been saying this in virtually every update. Cost, cost, costs....he never actually refers to how to achieve the level of cost reductions he's looking for.

if you're in the bottom half of the list, it's time to look elsewhere. If you're under 40, time to get a new career unless you want to wait another five years to start all over again.

Cheers--

No this is not INC's plan. INC's plan is to survive, then thrive.

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[Freebrd]

No this is not INC's plan. INC's plan is to survive, then thrive.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

YOU are so clueless, listen to these other arguments and open your mind, YOU better have a plan cause I see furloughs and more cost cutting measures at XJT

 

[777forever]

YOU are so clueless, listen to these other arguments and open your mind, YOU better have a plan cause I see furloughs and more cost cutting measures at XJT

Ha, you think INC's plan is bankruptcy and you call me clueless? Sorry I don't open my mind to irrational thought. We can agree to disagree on what will happen. I'll bookmark this thread, and a year from now or less if I'm wrong, I'll happily eat my words and buy you a steak dinner

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[jstyle13]

YOU are so clueless, listen to these other arguments and open your mind, YOU better have a plan cause I see furloughs and more cost cutting measures at XJT

Gotta agree with 777 here. That's just an asinine statement. While I do share some of your apperhension with the new TA(assuming it passes....which it will) and how it will basically gut DCI, I don't think that the business plan for SkyW now is to go into BK. Of all the DCI carriers out there, I think they have the best shot of getting through this upcoming mess.

Assuming the 717's and MD90's make it to DL, along with the return of retirees in 2013, hopefully there will be a lot of hiring at DL. I know there will be a net loss of jobs at DCI, but hopefully that will be canceled out by jobs at Delta and the other majors that may be hiring soon. Let's face it. The 50's are money losers and there are probably to many RJ's out there anyways. Hopefully this creates higher paying jobs and balances out the Delta fleet to a more profitable balance for everyone.

 

[JustaNumber]

This is what I found after a real quick glance. I didn't find the list of expiration dates for the aircraft leases.

F. Partial Termination. Notwithstanding anything herein to the contrary, effective at any time after the seventh (7th) anniversary of the Effective Date, Delta shall have the right to remove from the scope of this Agreement each Aircraft effective upon the date that the lease, mortgage or other financing arrangement with respect to such Aircraft in effect as of the Effective Date expires by providing ASA with at least twelve (12) months’ prior written notice.

This is exactly what we're looking for, thanks for looking that up. I believe the ASA was signed in the summer of 2005, so that means right about now they can start providing that 12 month notice. Right on schedule.

Now if you or anyone else can come up with a comprehensive list of lease expiration dates on each regional's aircraft, we'll know exactly who will lose what when, with the balance to be made up by Pinnacle through the bankruptcy process.

 

[makersmarc]

May interject a clarification re: RJs as money losers?

Delta does not lose money by operating RJs of any size. The way it was explained to me by a company beancounter, DL doesn't make AS MUCH as they would if the resources ($) allocated to RJs were allocated elsewhere.

RJs do not lose money for Delta.

 

[Freebrd]

Ha, you think INC's plan is bankruptcy and you call me clueless? 2

didn't mention BK, I said furloughs and other cost cutting

 

[CRJ puppy]

Don't forget that ASA parked/transferred/reallocated to other ops from the Delta flying, 2 50 seaters for every 900 received from Mama D. I would suggest that this will happen again, however Skywest/ExpressJet will have to work that much harder to keep these "abandoned" 50 seaters flying on this next round of consolidation.

 

[JumpersAway]

I think the odds of furloughs are pretty slim. Incorporated has a good idea as to what our next move is going to be. We're pretty much turn key for another partner, such as USAirways and American, so at a worst case scenario, I just see us shuffling away from DCI. Even this is a stretch, in my view. Honestly, I think it is much ado about nothing- we're going to get rid of some old, worn out, cranky 200's and exchange them for more reliable, customer friendly (and crew liked) CRJ900 Next Gens. I feel much better at ExpressJet than I would at another carrier.

Pinnicle may have money for DIP financing from DAL, but the interest rate is brutal. I think DAL just sees a quick way to make a buck off the backs of PNCL. I hate to say it, and I feel bad for the PNCL folks, but I don't see them emerging from the mess they are in. Best of luck to them and I hope nobody comes out jobless, but it isn't looking good.

 

[777forever]

I believe those planes are under lease until contract expiration, 2016 or 2017


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[777forever]

I think the odds of furloughs are pretty slim. Incorporated has a good idea as to what our next move is going to be. We're pretty much turn key for another partner, such as USAirways and American, so at a worst case scenario, I just see us shuffling away from DCI. Even this is a stretch, in my view. Honestly, I think it is much ado about nothing- we're going to get rid of some old, worn out, cranky 200's and exchange them for more reliable, customer friendly (and crew liked) CRJ900 Next Gens. I feel much better at ExpressJet than I would at another carrier.

Pinnicle may have money for DIP financing from DAL, but the interest rate is brutal. I think DAL just sees a quick way to make a buck off the backs of PNCL. I hate to say it, and I feel bad for the PNCL folks, but I don't see them emerging from the mess they are in. Best of luck to them and I hope nobody comes out jobless, but it isn't looking good.

Yeah those 200 are worn out. For me personally, Going from the 900 back to the 200 is like staying a week at the Hilton YYZ long overnight, then going to stay at the Lodge MLI for a month.....


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[WMUSIGPI]

More like Dennis Leary Singing "A$$hole" then realizing really it's Adam Sandler singing your life story "Piece of $hit car" Either way you look at it you are worthless.

 

[General Lee]

The only potential upside to expressjets position is skywest inc's ability to self finance alot of the potential 900 leases or purchases. Delta will be forking out a ton of capital on 717s and 737s in the near term, I doubt they want to front any more money to an RJ operator. Skywest/ expressjet also get a higher payout per block hour when they hold the tail risk, according to Brad Rich on the last earnings call..

The 737-900ERs were probably a great deal via Boeing thanks to the delays in the 787. I also hear that Southwest might be paying Delta $150,000 per year, per plane, as the 717s come over. Some people say $150K per month, but I doubt the leases are that high. Delta is probably getting a screaming deal on both planes. Southwest really doesn't want those planes, and might be willing to pay part of the yearly leases until 2017 to give them up.


Bye Bye---General Lee