Delta TA impact on Delta Connection...

[Inconceivable]

I agree with the General and with the Delta NC. Very good scope protections are built into this TA and Delta pilots would be unwise not to vote yes and take the pay increases, upgrades, and movement that come with a short 3 year contract that moves a significant amount of block hours to mainline.

100 737-900s on the way
88 717s on the way

That's a lot of movement that will get a significant amount of folks up out of the regionals, which would be a good idea since probably one or two DCI carriers are about to get the HAMMER when it comes to cutting 50 seat jets.

...and the thirsty -88 fleet? The 752s? The 9s will be gone as 717s come on property - they are a stopgap at this point.

Look at the bulk of domestic flying: 739 replaces 75, 717 replaces 88s -- and what can be done to stop it?

 

[BarbrPole2theOM]

Is there anything that prevents the expansion of the 70+ seaters per the ta and still have as many 49 seat crj200's as they currently have?

 

[Plainsman]

I enjoy the hope of Delta Air Lines hiring in the near future and the ability to progress, but does anyone find it strange we pay ALPA to bargain for job improvements, all the while bargaining to reduce those same jobs. That flow language in that TA is bs. What are the benefits of a union like that anyway? lol insurance, a magazine, and lunch once a year.

 

[Whataboutbob]

Wow 35% of new hires will come from DCI ALPA carriers, so it would seem that if you are not ALPA you'll be in the 65% range (much better odds)! So how does this benefit an DCI ALPA group??? Thanks ALPA for helping us out, why do I pay dues again?

I thought I read also that part of that 35% includes the already in place flow agreements with Compass (20 a month?) and the 100 or so guys that have the option at Mesaba (3-5 per month). Doesn't leave much room for other ALPA DCI pilots?.

 

[777forever]

...and the thirsty -88 fleet? The 752s? The 9s will be gone as 717s come on property - they are a stopgap at this point.

Look at the bulk of domestic flying: 739 replaces 75, 717 replaces 88s -- and what can be done to stop it?

That's why the negotiating team bargained for strong language.

"First, under the current agreement the company has the authority to grow the 76 fleet to 256 hulls, under this one they are capped at 223 (153+70)

Second, The company has a financing problem with the 50 seat leases and can park them to lose 100% of potential or keep them and lose less than 100%. There are options where the lessors could take the 50 (losing some income) and replace them with 76's (and insure a longer revenue stream). IOW, the 50 IS going away, we can create an environment to accelerate that fact to our benefit our not. This agreement does...

Third, they can only take advantage of this exchange under 2 simultaneous events. They must FIRST place 1.25 NEW narrow bodies into action for each new swapped 76 AND they must remove 2-3 50's. At that point a snap shot is taken to establish a hard block hour ratio which can not be reduced. As they add more NB, they get more 76 (1.25 to 1) and they remove more 50's, a new more favorable mainline ratio is established. In the end of the day, should they chose to shrink ML for any reason, they will be required to shrink RJ by a greater degree (simple math).

 

[bigshooter107]

I thought I read also that part of that 35% includes the already in place flow agreements with Compass (20 a month?) and the 100 or so guys that have the option at Mesaba (3-5 per month). Doesn't leave much room for other ALPA DCI pilots?.

I'm thinking the 35% is a minimum...

 

[Whataboutbob]

Give me an answer to what you would do with the 50 seaters. Let's just say that someone up high did renew the leases, and now they will pay for them for 10 more years. Knowing that, what would you do with them? Just park them? Fly them at a loss? What about what to do with new CR9s? Yes, DL pilots could fly the new ones, but what about the rest of the people working with them? Rampers, flight attendants, mechanics, etc? Would they all be mainline employees? Or just the pilots? Tell me how that would work?

They are getting the 717s now, and that is good. There could be more things out there in the pipeline, but some people said the 717 order was suspect. Well, it looks official now. And, there are protections in this TA to not allow those additional RJs to come unless mainline grows. Not a great deal, but unfortunately one that you have to look at as a whole and see what is best with the situation DL has.



Bye Bye---General Lee

You guys do what you have to do with that TA but Delta has an out on a ton of 50 seaters if you don't ratify the TA. It's called the Pinnacle bankruptcy. wonder why they haven't mentioned any plans yet with Pinnacles 200 fleet thus far into the bankruptcy. They are waiting to see how your TA turns out.

If you do ratify the TA I'm guessing more 900's get dangled in front of Pinnacle pilots to get us to bite quickly on a crap concessionaire contract in bankruptcy to get shiny new airplanes to replace all those 200's (obviously more going away them being replaced) and save a few jobs more then would be lost with 200's going away without replacement aircraft. While that's going on Delta buys Pinnacle in bankruptcy for pennies on the dollar and gets the fleet set up the way they want it (kind of like flipping a house, fix up the kitchen and bathroom and sell for way more then you paid for it). So you pass the TA pinnacle loses a ton of 50 seaters and gets more 900's (value of Pinnacle sky rockets). Don't pass TA and Pinnacle still loses 200's and has current fleet of 900's which is still going to make Delta money if they bought them and sold them to say Skywest, but not as much as if you pass that TA. So in theory you guys passing TA is making the value of Pinnacle go up once all this happens. Delta buys Pinnacle and sells to the highest bidder. Money in the pocket of Delta management. Probably enough to cover the cost of your 3 year deal or new fleet of 717's which just replaced some of your 88's and older 319's.

I wish I was Delta management, they are going to be laughing all the way to the bank. Funny thing is it all seems to be scripted out way ahead of time and not much you can do to stop it.

 

[ASApuppy]

Another view from outside the box.......

What if Delta bought a regional and merged(stapled) the pilots? How would a fleet of CRJ-900's coming to Mainline skew the DCI ratio's?

Not that far fetched. USAirways operates the same type as their express, only a 12 ft longer version. Seems like Delta could be in complete complience with new ratio's by simply buying and stapling.

The other picture that nobody is touching is that there are very few pilots in the works to replace those that retire. This industry will have fewer pilots. The million dollar question is where do you draw the line between mainline and regionals staffing levels. I think it is time for the regionals to shrink and serve only the most profitable markets. Don't be caught without a chair when the music stops.

Hopefully the DAL ATL CP that said "regional capt's with more than 1500 hrs are no longer moldable to the Delta system and should not be hired" will have changed his mind.

 

[JustaNumber]

What is the exact language in the TA regarding how many CRJ200s leave? It seems people are quoting some different numbers.

We know the new mainline planes will be the 88 717's, so the addition of the 70 CRJ900s are a done deal (which exactly satisfies the 1.25 ratio). Exactly how many CRJ200s go away with these numbers?

Also, what is the current total DCI CRJ200 inventory per regional?

Just trying to see the odds of my job going away.

 

[Flyer1015]

I enjoy the hope of Delta Air Lines hiring in the near future and the ability to progress, but does anyone find it strange we pay ALPA to bargain for job improvements, all the while bargaining to reduce those same jobs. That flow language in that TA is bs. What are the benefits of a union like that anyway? lol insurance, a magazine, and lunch once a year.

Just wait til you leave an ALPA carrier for a non-ALPA carrier. You'll get a hilarious letter in the mail that says something along the lines that we're sad to hear you have left an ALPA-represented carrier, blah blah blah, but if you want the magazine and a couple other perks then please send $50/year. LOL. Promptly trashed that letter after reading it...