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Delta TA = ALPAs failure of representation for regionals

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Flyer1015

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 13, 2004
Posts
4,502
"
Delta Air Lines could save close to $500 million in engine maintenance, Bombardier CRJ200 ownership and Delta Connection contract costs if its pilots ratify a new collective bargaining agreement they are voting on this month, the union’s contract negotiating team says.

The proposed new pilot contract includes terms that would enable Delta to drop almost 200 50-seat aircraft from its network by the end of 2015—faster than it can under the current contract—and do so shortly before many of them are due for expensive engine overhauls.

If the agreement is ratified (voting started June 15 and ends June 29) Delta will save about $184 million in “above normal run rate CRJ200 engine maintenance costs,” negotiators for the Delta Master Executive Council of the Air Line Pilots Association said in a note to members.

Delta also will save about $289 million in Delta Connection contract and CRJ200 ownership costs, they added. That provides for a total net savings of $473 million over the life of the new collective bargaining agreement, which would become amendable at the end of 2015.

A union spokesman says the savings calculations “were aggregated from costing discussions between our negotiating committee and Delta management and published to our pilots with Delta’s permission.”

The negotiators’ argument in favor of the contract is that—on an ongoing basis—Delta will be spending more than it saves on items that matter to pilots, such as higher pay and growth in the mainline fleet by the subleasing of 88 Boeing 717 aircraft from Southwest Airlines.

Delta did not have any comment."

*****************************************************

So.

Still no conflict of interest? Both majors and regionals can be represented by ALPA without any conflict? The best that ALPA at Delta can do is just 'ensure' that 35% of newhire classes have DCI pilots? No guarantee of a job, no guarantee of an interview! This TA, approved by ALPA at a major, directly will be responsible for job losses of regional pilots on 200 jets.

Go ALPA! I wonder how Comair and Pinnacle pilots feel about continuing to pay 1.95% for ALPA National.

Cue PCL_128 in 3.........2........1.......
 
When did I say it was a good job? I left because of the impending BK and fleet cuts. None of that is on point of the topic.
 
Regionals are contract feed and do not get say in what flying they do for their respective Major bosses. That's why I got the F out.
 
There is no denying that Delta ALPA will be responsible for the job loss of over a thousand DUES-paying regional ALPA pilots. I wouldn't be surprised to see a DFR lawsuit against ALPA.
 
There is no denying that Delta ALPA will be responsible for the job loss of over a thousand DUES-paying regional ALPA pilots. I wouldn't be surprised to see a DFR lawsuit against ALPA.

Why should delta pilots worry about job loses at regionals. I do not believe the regionals worry to worried about us 5 plus year furlough guys. Were you when you went to work at 9 e.
 
There is no denying that Delta ALPA will be responsible for the job loss of over a thousand DUES-paying regional ALPA pilots.

Actually, there is plenty of denying that. Delta contracts with numerous regional partners, only a few of which are ALPA carriers. The lost planes could just as easily come from a Teamsters or non-union pilot group.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a DFR lawsuit against ALPA.

Well, obviously. I'm never surprised to see idiots parted with their money in furtherance of a frivolous lawsuit.
 
Actually, there is plenty of denying that. Delta contracts with numerous regional partners, only a few of which are ALPA carriers. The lost planes could just as easily come from a Teamsters or non-union pilot group.

But will they? I think they're far more likely to come from a group for which you are a group VP.
 
But will they? I think they're far more likely to come from a group for which you are a group VP.

I don't claim to be a VP for anything. Assume what you want. But I do sincerely hope that no airplanes are reduced from any ALPA carrier without those pilots getting jobs at the mainline partner. However, the Delta pilots can't make decisions on their own CBA based on what might happen somewhere else. They need to make the decisions that are best for them and the profession.
 
When did I say it was a good job? I left because of the impending BK and fleet cuts. None of that is on point of the topic.

A union should be protecting good jobs. Not low paying whipsawing jobs. Nothing new is happening here.

Did you raise hell when Pinnacle grew at the expense of Mesaba?

You're just seeing everything come full circle. For the last 10-12 years mainline growth (jobs) has been stunted by the cancerous regional industry. Now mainline is starting to grow and regional pilots are feeling the pinch because mainline carriers were growing their regional feed at an unsustainable rate.

Sucks to have your day in the barrel, but the bottom 20% of pretty much every mainline seniority list has been feeling that way since September 2001.
 
I don't claim to be a VP for anything. Assume what you want.

Thanks for the permission, but I don't have to assume. I just go by the mustache gallery at the back of the ALPA magazine which features your face prominently.
 
There is no denying that Delta ALPA will be responsible for the job loss of over a thousand DUES-paying regional ALPA pilots. I wouldn't be surprised to see a DFR lawsuit against ALPA.

Yeah but (yabut), 35% of all newhires will be ALPA DCI pilots!


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
Yeah but (yabut), 35% of all newhires will be ALPA DCI pilots!

Yes, but there was no flow-through, which is how it should work. I'm betting that was DALPA's demand, not management's. The pilots there have always had a little bit too much of an ego about your hiring process. Letting pilots who have already been flying Delta passengers flow up to Delta is the right thing to do, rather than forcing them to go through an interview process just for the privilege of flying the same passengers that they've already been flying.
 
I Delta pilots can't make decisions on their own CBA based on what might happen somewhere else. They need to make the decisions that are best for them and the profession.

If only it were that easy every time there's a contract vote.

As opposed to the fragmented groups that ONLY vote for their own self interest.

More seats at the regional level? Fukc it, I'm senior, won't affect me.....

More regional aircraft allowed but HOLY COW, LOOK AT THOSE PAY RATES!! Look how much money I'm] gonna make!!!!!!!
(UAL contract 200/DAL contract 2001)

Let's see, this CBA isn't really that great, but I should vote YES since I'm gonna retire in a couple years so I want the pay raise NOW before I retire. As opposed to to it dragging out a few more years and [I/b] miss out on that money. Who cares about what happens after I get my money and leave.

I know you been around a while and have worked in various union capacities, etc. But if you don't think the mentality exists amongst ANY pilot group you're not paying attention. It's been going on since the beginning. Especially at a legacy level where there's more demographics and more division of interests within the pilot group as a whole.
 
I know you been around a while and have worked in various union capacities, etc. But if you don't think the mentality exists amongst ANY pilot group you're not paying attention. It's been going on since the beginning.

I don't dispute that. And I condemn it just as you do. But I don't think that applies in this case with this TA.
 
Yes, but there was no flow-through, which is how it should work. I'm betting that was DALPA's demand, not management's. The pilots there have always had a little bit too much of an ego about your hiring process. Letting pilots who have already been flying Delta passengers flow up to Delta is the right thing to do, rather than forcing them to go through an interview process just for the privilege of flying the same passengers that they've already been flying.
Disagree. One still should be interviewed. There are plenty of DCI pilots who have no business being in a customer service industry. How many times have you flown with someone on an RJ and thought, I can't wait for this to be over. Now compare a 50 minute RJ flight to a 14 hour flight to Dubai. There's got to be a process so they can still weed out these types of personalities without having to accept them because they are simply DCI.
 
I've ridden on plenty of Delta mainline jumpseats and thought "man, it would really suck to be flying with this a-hole for a whole trip." It's not a regional/mainline thing. Some people just suck. If mainline is ok with outsourcing the flying to the carrier that employs that pilot you're talking about, then they should have no problem flowing him up to mainline.
 
I've ridden on plenty of Delta mainline jumpseats and thought "man, it would really suck to be flying with this a-hole for a whole trip." It's not a regional/mainline thing. Some people just suck. If mainline is ok with outsourcing the flying to the carrier that employs that pilot you're talking about, then they should have no problem flowing him up to mainline.

Again, disagree. Because certain DCI carriers, like Pinnacle, have hired and given class dates to pilots WITHOUT even interviewing! There was a program in place for students graduating from Western Michigan and Oklahoma State (I think). But it is fact that 9E took pilots without interviewing. Personally, that should never have happened, because an airline needs a weed-out process to at least *attempt* at keeping the bad apples out. In the 2004-2007 era, regionals were desperate and hiring anyone who could fog a mirror. That hiring standard should be higher than that at a place like Delta.
 
Again, those pilots already fly Delta passengers in airplanes that say Delta on the side. If Delta is ok with outsourcing their passengers to those pilots, then they can't complain about flowing them up as far as I'm concerned. Don't like the quality of pilot at certain regionals? Then you shouldn't be outsourcing to them in the first place.
 
Again, those pilots already fly Delta passengers in airplanes that say Delta on the side. If Delta is ok with outsourcing their passengers to those pilots, then they can't complain about flowing them up as far as I'm concerned. Don't like the quality of pilot at certain regionals? Then you shouldn't be outsourcing to them in the first place.

Yes, but why stop the parallel there? How about safety? Remember those Colgan 3407 hearings? Where the major airline leaders (ATA types) were asked if they would support a one level of safety and take responsibility for safety issues at their regional counterparts... "we're gonna have to get back to you on that."

Delta doesn't know or have any hand in hiring at Pinnacle or any other DCI carrier. The contract spells out what flying is to be done by whichever carrier, at whatever agreed cost. Maybe Delta assumed that their DCI partner would actually have a hiring standard that was more than just the ability to fog a mirror?
 
Yes, but there was no flow-through, which is how it should work. I'm betting that was DALPA's demand, not management's. The pilots there have always had a little bit too much of an ego about your hiring process. Letting pilots who have already been flying Delta passengers flow up to Delta is the right thing to do, rather than forcing them to go through an interview process just for the privilege of flying the same passengers that they've already been flying.

Many Comair guys stated that too, and threw in that they should get DOH at DL too. It hasn't worked out so well for them since then. Delta used to hire ex military guys exclusively, and although that isn't the case now, they still want that ability to grab some of those guys too. Management owns the hiring.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
Disagree. One still should be interviewed. There are plenty of DCI pilots who have no business being in a customer service industry. How many times have you flown with someone on an RJ and thought, I can't wait for this to be over. Now compare a 50 minute RJ flight to a 14 hour flight to Dubai. There's got to be a process so they can still weed out these types of personalities without having to accept them because they are simply DCI.

Based on your demeanor at PCL....I find it odd you are having this argument.
 
The Pinnacle union is only concerned with the careers of the senior lifers. The top 300 or so. One of the biggest reasons the company is not competitive is because of how senior it is but the union will not allow their most senior to take a hit by themselves even though they have let the junior and the FO's take huge hits in the past while they gained from what was going on. Need examples? XJ 05' contract and the SLI. enough said. Time to leave.
 

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