Delta Requesting Pilot Talks to Cut Cost

[CRJFlyer]

av8instyle,

the whole thing is a double standard..

certain people on each side feel that the other is owed something...

who's flying is it...(Delta feels its there's and we're taking their jobs)But then again if we're the "same" company then whats the problem...(and yes i do understand the logic of how putting an rj on a route takes a mainline a/c off it)

So in that instance Delta feels they deserve the routes..and we're not part of them..

On the topic of this new pay cut thing...in this instance delta wants us to be part of them so we'll take the cut also..(well in effect only the general has voiced any opinion)so now all of a sudden we're one company..

On generals point of Comair shafting theior furloughed guys..(which i agree they should be hired at Comair) in this case Delta wants Comair/ASA to hire their guys with preferential hiring...So in effect Delta wants us to show them preferential hiring because we're "one company"...

It seems like each side wants the other side to be "one company" only when it improves the conditions of each respective company..

I do want the lifestyle of a pilot..oh wait, i have it with out the really good pay..i'd be happy to do this job for just the amount of money that it takes to survive normally.Of course 100K plus a year is great..but if it takes me making say 80K a year and keep my job I would gladly do it...its alot more than my parents make, 18K is hard to live on and i'm sure making less back a couple of years was even worse..then again I wouldn't do this job if i didn't make atleats enough to eat..and to those that would do it for say 12K a year, good for them but I wouldn't..

the average salary for a pilot is just over 99K a year, thats #10 on the list behind doctors and maybe engineers...with all of us 18K a year guys here on one side who's making the rest to get that average up...

 

[MLBWINGBORN]

Call it a weakness but i just cant leave this one alone..Sorry..

The thing that makes me madd as he!! about this whole deal is i can remember very well in the not to distant past that most of the "majors" would have nothing to do with a commuter carrier even if it was painted the same and was flying their schedules..

Flow thru was unheard of and in many cases they just wouldnt hire from "their' commuter ever..Just wouldnt do it at all..

Now...All of a sudden the big boys are in trouble and they need a way to cut costs and find a way to keep their main line pilots working..Now we have reverse flow thru and the Captains that couldnt get hired at "their"major are being bumped down by the guys from momma up above..

Now all of a sudden the whole idea of one senority list and Jets for Jobs is just great with managment and we all can live happily ever after..

Mark my words..Those of you that are doing well like ASA and ACA ect ect better watch your backs..

You may well end up being sent home without so much as a kiss when better times return to momma and they forget what a nice bastard red headed step child you guys were as they tell you that wet stuff running down your back is rain..

Been there done that with the tee shirt and post cards to prove it..

Mike

 

[General Lee]

This is all getting way out of hand. I am NOT trying to be the "greedy" Delta pilot asking others for money while I keep all of mine. Come on, I was just saying that only one group taking all of the cuts is not fair. Would we take most of the cuts? Sure. I just don't think only the UNIONIZED pilots should take the cuts (along with the better paid execs)--and 50,000 other people who never signed a contract ( a contract that said by the way that the airline would not furlough due to the economy or unprofitability of the company-----the pax stopped being scared to fly 1 year ago, but Delta continued to furlough....) don't have to contribute. Can't you see this? We are the only ones with a contract and we get screwed. Where is Johney Cochran when we need him?

I will be the first one to tell you that ASA/Comair pilots don't make enough money-----and I flew the regionals too and was paid crap for years. How about a 1% paycut? Is that too much for you? I am sure we would take a much larger one, but atleast you are contributing. Do you see what I mean? I know you work hard and make squat----but contributing counts. Now I know that right now Dalpa is refusing to contribute without seeing the "books." I still think when it comes down to it, we might help out---which might be needed---but with snapbacks. I am in no way asking you all for cuts---I am just saying that we at mainline should not be the only ones singled out for cuts when the "survival" of our company comes down to it. I don't want Delta to fail, and I want everyone to make a great wage---especially Regional pilots---and even flight instrutors. (I made $10.00 an hour for 4 years as a flight instructor---and enjoyed McDonalds and Wendy's every night)

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Russ]

Gen Lee is pitching a bitc* about taking a paycut when his portion of the company is losing billions. Given that do you think he would accept a paycut if ASA was the one losing money? My belief is no, but you all can draw your own conclusions. Perhaps years ago the world rotated around mainline, but the gravitational pull is weakening. Many of us are gonna be at our current jobs and seats for a career, or at the least a long time. My duty is to make my life for my family as best I can. I am not going to give the farm to D in the hopes I will make it there.
There is alot more fat to cut out of a 767 FO's pay than a RJ's. Who there Gen. will feel a 10% cut more?

Some are contributing, they are hiring your guys on the street. It doesn't have to be framed in dollars.

 

[Maxx Power]

MLBWINGBORN,
Just to correct a couple of things. In the case of reverse flow throughs there are not Captains who could not get hired by their major being bumped down. Yes guys are being bumped down, but they had been moving up due to the flow through before this all went down the tubes. If a flow through/flow back is in place the Captains had been flowing up to their major. They were not unable to get hired by their major as you put it.

And as to the onlist being ok now by mgmt. the only one I know of even talking about it is AA and it looks more like a flow through. At Delta mgmt. says no way and I remember CAL's guy saying something like "that will never happen as long as I'm here."

I'm just pointing things out. Not trying to start a fight. I also read an RJ guy talking about how he already has the pilot lifestyle just not the pay. If you fly for an RJ airline you do not have the same lifestyle as a guy at a major. I know, I have been on both sides of the fence. Four 121 pax airlines (I can't seem to hold down a job.) A contract at a major is not just about pay, but it is also about the work rules. Just one of many examples but at my old jobs I had a 1 or 2 hour callout on reserve. At my major job when I was on reserve, on most days I had a 12 hour callout. I'm not bashing RJ flying. Any flying job beats working. I'm just saying it is not just about pay that separates the two types of contracts. Hopefully one day we can close the gaps in all areas of the contracts, not just pay. Also I hope we can all do this more by the RJ contracts coming up to a higher standard and not the other way around. Snapback is my word of the day.

Anyway we are all in this together. Fly safe and keep the light on for me.

 

[NYRANGERS]

You guys are so hung up with your own insecuities you can' t see what the General is trying to say.

Why is it that the ONLY group of people Delta is trying to extort concessions from is the only group that has a contract? We are in a battle over FM, not to mention while they ask us for concessions they are in Washington trying to decimate ALL of our collective abilities to negotiate.

It would seem very self defeating to give concessions now and try to uphold some semblance of our contract after McCain/Lott.

Management is just trying to uphold their resposibility to exploit every opportunity they can. We are just trying to take a slow and informed response.

If Delta is sucessfull in their attack on our CBA, I say to you......................stand by for incomming. However I hope you will stand strong.

NYR

NYR3 panthers1

 

[MLBWINGBORN]

Maxx Power..

My comments are directed towards where the industry is heading as related to the attitudes of the past towards "the little guys"..

As for how much of what i stated will come to pass.

Its only a matter of time and economics..

Thank you for your corrections.

Mike

 

[sleepy]

Well General, one of the first lessions I learned is that life is not always fair.

 

[Midnight Mike]

Ground pounder here, legally, the Delta pilots are correct, they have a contract. Morally, they have an obligation to assist the company in its moment of need.

If the Delta pilots do help out the company, make sure the media knows what a bunch of angels you are......

 

[canyonblue]

Why is it that the ONLY group of people Delta is trying to extort concessions from is the only group that has a contract? We are in a battle over FM, not to mention while they ask us for concessions they are in Washington trying to decimate ALL of our collective abilities to negotiate.

Ah yea, it's called Big Daddy Delta showing the NON-Union folks that this is what happens when you join a union. Why do you think the Delta F/A's are the highest paid in the industry? Delta will gladly pay out to keep AFA or any other union off the property. By NOT joining a union these people have trusted that Delta would take care of them in hard times. I would expect Delta to honor that bond by targeting you guys first or what good is it for them to NOT have a union.

 

[SWA/FO]

Everyone should do everthing in their power to help out those Delta mainline pilots. I do not think they could get by with any pay cut.

After all, they are the highest paid and with that no furlough clause within the contract (as good as gold) we as an industry must hold on to that. If they give into Management they will in fact "be ruining the industy".

Why don't you guys have a sick-out / slowdown to protest? Show them you mean business!

Let me have it!!!

 

[MLBWINGBORN]

OUCH!!!

Mike

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Someday (perhaps after we take cuts), more pilots will realize that the only reason that they are paid as well as they are is because those who came before them did not give in to every mgt demand. Those people will also realize that when the benchmark of pilot pay is lowered, every other airline will lower theirs as well, or lose their ability to compete based on costs. Just as a rising tide lifts all boats, a falling tide sinks them all. One would think that more pilots would be rooting for us to "hold the line," but apparently it is more fun to root against us. Unfortunately, some of those pilots who are laughing may soon find themselves as the highest paid. Of course, they would then HAVE to give concessions, as it has become obvious to me through the helpful members of this board that no one should be the highest paid.

Actually, I hope that the above predictions never comes to fruition, though it seems many are actually hoping for it. I hope that they have taken some time out of their merry-making to consider the ramifications. It does not appear that they have.

 

[rjcap]

fdj,

What do you think of DALPA's refusal to meet with mgmt regarding cost cuts ???

Is this a smart move politically ??

Wlill this send the wrong message if the media runs with this ??

I am very curious as to the strategy here. If there is one.

Your comments and insights are welcome.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

RJ,

If you read the press release, you will notice that DALPA did not refuse concessions outright. Instead, they indicated that "meeting for discussions" was not the proper way to address this issue. We have a contract, and therefore don't have any obligation to open up negotiations at this time. However, if the company has a definite business plan with a rational proposal, ALPA expressed willingness to consider their proposal and respond in kind. However, meeting for negotiations on our contract is not appropriate.

As I have said before, perhaps concessions are needed, and if they are, we will give. We have done so in the past, and we are not so stupid as to kill the company out of a sense of pride or stubborness. Before we do so, however, certain factors must be considered. Simply meeting for contract negotiations while we alread have a contract does not address those factors. If mgt presents us with a proposal, we will consider it. Perhaps then, negotiations could begin.

Will the media misinterpret this? Almost assuradly. Should that fact force us to abandon a well thought out response? I don't think that it should.

Plus, with the amount of stalling mgt did with the last contract, as well as during the FM grievance process, it kind of warms my heart to see us turn the tables a little bit! We showed an operational profit in the last quarter, our liquidity is good, and we were cash neutral. The company, while it is not exactly healthy, is not in immediate peril either, and a careful and methodical approach is appropriate.

If you are interested, below is the actual response from our MEC. I hope that it explains their stance better than I did.



Item one. Today, Delta senior management sent a letter to the MEC leadership requesting a meeting on February 19 to discuss possible modifications to the pilot contract. Further, CFO Michele Burns today announced to a transportation conference that management "will be coming" to the Delta pilots "to discuss our contract, in the light of the environment in which we find ourselves." We have advised senior management that a meeting at this time for the stated purpose is not appropriate. Since we have a contract that is not amendable until 2005, management cannot initiate discussions for modifications without a specific proposal and specific detailed justification. If such a proposal is made, ALPA will follow its longstanding structured, methodical process we have for responding. Under this process, we will analyze the company's financial projections and plans for a return to profitability, followed by a decision by the Delta MEC whether to engage in negotiations and provide direction, and then negotiate, but only if appropriate. This process allows time for membership input, and for MEC review and decision-making.