Delta realignment

[skykid]

Delta's domestic flying out of ATL is going to get smaller, in my opinion, by a significant amount in the near future. They will have to quit some of the flying where they are getting beaten up if they are going to turn the corner - with or without CH 11. Adding internationally is the right direction, but only one part of the equation.

 

[JoeMerchant]

What many at mainline had been saying after 9-11 was "we are starting to get it, WE are ALL in this together", however with explosive RJ growth, it was muted, and a more divisive line was drawn.

Does everyone GET it know. NO ONE is immune, and WE are ALL in this together. Why is this such a hard concept t grasp.

This reminds of the story about the Lone Ranger and Tonto being tied to a stake while a band of Indians circles them sharpening their tomahawks. The Lone Ranger turns to Tonto and says "We need to get out of here". Tonto replies "what do you mean WE white-man?"

AAflyer, we aren't "ALL in this together". The mainlines, especially APA have made it clear that we are separate. You mainline folks are now reaping what you have sown.

You can take your "WE" and your "ALL in this together" and file it the "shoulda-woulda-coulda" file. Your a day late and a dollar short.

Joe

 

[JoeMerchant]

General Lee,

"The natural progression" has been replaced by "natural selection". Adapt or die - you're choice.
....or as they say in the investment world, "past performance is no guarantee of future results".

Joe

 

[General Lee]

Delta's domestic flying out of ATL is going to get smaller, in my opinion, by a significant amount in the near future. They will have to quit some of the flying where they are getting beaten up if they are going to turn the corner - with or without CH 11. Adding internationally is the right direction, but only one part of the equation.

Incorrect. They are trying to put more pressure on Airtran. Some of the flights they have recently added are in direct competition---like adding Bloomington, IL and Moline, IA. Unfortunately, they are putting RJs on those routes against Airtran 717s, which I think is wrong, but will add seats to their markets and influence some people to fly DL to ATL and beyond. As far as cutting back flights on routes that we are "getting beaten up"---it doesn't look like Grinstein is doing that. He recognizes now that INTL flights without LCC competition actually can produce higher revenue margins and better yields. There will still be a monster feed system in ATL, and hopefully the new version of operation clockwork (stage 2) has started and will create faster turn arounds. When the weather goes bad at any hub--like ORD and DEN in the Winter for UA, things slow down. The parking of some 762s will produce alittle less traffic, but the quicker turn times on the MD88s and 738s will make up for some of that.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

General Lee,

"The natural progression" has been replaced by "natural selection". Adapt or die - you're choice.
....or as they say in the investment world, "past performance is no guarantee of future results".

Joe

Joe,

I agree with you. I do. Delta has to find out how to make money. With the ever expanding LCCs, we either bring our domestic costs down to that level, or we put everything into INTL and avoid them all together. To fill those INTL flights, we have to have feed---and that comes from domestic flying. So, there has to be a mix, and maybe we will use Song as a domestic tool. And, if we go to court, we will lower those costs most likely.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[JoeMerchant]

Joe,

I agree with you. I do. Delta has to find out how to make money. With the ever expanding LCCs, we either bring our domestic costs down to that level, or we put everything into INTL and avoid them all together. To fill those INTL flights, we have to have feed---and that comes from domestic flying. So, there has to be a mix, and maybe we will use Song as a domestic tool. And, if we go to court, we will lower those costs most likely.

Bye Bye--General Lee

As usual General, you totally missed my point. I wasn't refering to Delta changing, I was referring to ALPA and mainline pilots like you who still hold on to the old "natural progression" BS. That "natural progression" you speak of for us lowly "regional" pilots has been replaced by natural selection of those who survive with jobs and those who don't. I'm not interested in "progessing" according to your pre-destined right of passage - rather I am interested in protecting my job regardless of how it affects you.

Joe

 

[skykid]

Incorrect. They are trying to put more pressure on Airtran. Some of the flights they have recently added are in direct competition---like adding Bloomington, IL and Moline, IA.

I doubt very seriously I'm incorrect! I promise you if Ch11 comes, and I certainly hope somehow Delta can avoid it, Delta will not have a choice but to drop a large percentage of seats in some of the worst markets. If Delta can avoid CH11, it will be in part because they were able to come to terms with this reality.

 

[banger]

Joe,

I agree with you. I do. Delta has to find out how to make money. With the ever expanding LCCs, we either bring our domestic costs down to that level, or we put everything into INTL and avoid them all together. To fill those INTL flights, we have to have feed---and that comes from domestic flying. So, there has to be a mix, and maybe we will use Song as a domestic tool. And, if we go to court, we will lower those costs most likely.

Bye Bye--General Lee

General
Does this indicate a shift in your original thinking? In other words all along I thought you indicated Delta would be able to fight LCC and charge more money with a better product, ie freq flier programs, crown room, connections etc...
Your above comment seems to indicate you now believe DAL needs to drop costs to match the LCC and fly international to compete with LCC's. This is what I believe DAL needs to do.
Song loads are OK but from the ticket prices I believe there is no real profit there. It seems to be more of a defensive weapon against the LCC rather than a money maker. I think that if DAL did go chp-11 whomever is calling the shots is not going to allow any irrational flying to go on which I believe right now Song is doing.

 

[General Lee]

As usual General, you totally missed my point. I wasn't refering to Delta changing, I was referring to ALPA and mainline pilots like you who still hold on to the old "natural progression" BS. That "natural progression" you speak of for us lowly "regional" pilots has been replaced by natural selection of those who survive with jobs and those who don't. I'm not interested in "progessing" according to your pre-destined right of passage - rather I am interested in protecting my job regardless of how it affects you.

Joe

DA DA DA DAM. Joe buddy, relax. I wasn't trying to make you mad here. Maybe I did miss your point. Sheesh.

First off, take a look at all of our furloughs over the last 4 1/2 years. I guess you forgot that we had 1300 pilots out of work for a while. The regional guys aren't the only targets when things go bad. You guys actually grew during that time, which has helped us sink. Did ALPA see 9-11 coming and the resulting economic downturn that may have already been in the works? I don't think so. Krap happens. How about gas prices climbing thanks to greedy speculators, Iraq violence, and a huge Hurricane season? Did you know all about that before it happened? You did? Why didn't you say something?

AS far as you protecting your job, that is up to you. You and others have lost sight of the big prize---going on to a Major and enjoy better pay and benefits. Unfortunately not many are doing that right now (except CAL)---and some of that is because the RJDC bunch would rather fly the larger planes (90 or 100 seaters) at their airlines so they don't have to go to all of the hassle of geting hired, starting over, and losing the 4 weeks in Myrtle Beach each year. Sad but true Joe.

Now, higher gas has made some of your planes obsolete, and you aren't happy. (Just like after 9-11 when larger planes were parked when the loads were lighter because of fear of flying) That's the way it goes. I am sure the company will ask ALPA first if they want to bid on the new 100 seaters, and I see ALPA doing it, and the pay rates may be like Jetblue's because unfortunately that is the going rate.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

General
Does this indicate a shift in your original thinking? In other words all along I thought you indicated Delta would be able to fight LCC and charge more money with a better product, ie freq flier programs, crown room, connections etc...
Your above comment seems to indicate you now believe DAL needs to drop costs to match the LCC and fly international to compete with LCC's. This is what I believe DAL needs to do.
Song loads are OK but from the ticket prices I believe there is no real profit there. It seems to be more of a defensive weapon against the LCC rather than a money maker. I think that if DAL did go chp-11 whomever is calling the shots is not going to allow any irrational flying to go on which I believe right now Song is doing.

I think we should have Song doing most of the domestic if possible, and then a full service INTL product. Song is very popular and the TVs are great--something most LCCs do not have. As far as INTL goes, you need to differentiate yourself because many of the INTL airlines have very cheap labor and very good service, and you would lose out if you didn't try. That is what I would like to see.

Bye Bye--General Lee