Delta Pilots:missery demands company!

[73belair]

Unfortunately, the high Delta wages we all aspired to when we started dreaming of an airline career will very likely disappear. Zip - now a new reality. The fact that Jet Blue, USAirways and Mesa are accelerating our race to the bottom of the pay scale means that that dream of an enjoyable job with pretty good money is fast vaporizing... I feel bad for all of the people spending $100K+ on their educations at Embry Riddle and UND, etc. The "return on investment" will likely be very low and full of frustrations...

Sure, some of the DAL pilots can seem arrogant and lame with their comments, but how would we respond IF we were lucky enough to be in their positions and we were trying to protect our salaries, lifestyles and self-respect? Would you not also respond in a similar fashion or would you gladly fork over a big chunk of your pay willingly????

Man are you serious? No one is saying that they shouldn't complain about loosing money. But they shouldn't expect 2 airlines that are MAKING money to take a cut just because they have to.

 

[General Lee]

73belair,


You don't get it, do you? Delta can manipulate you---can make you look like you are making money, or charge you for Delta services (like Delta.com use or use of outstation personel) and make you have a loss. Also, putting you on traditional 727 routes---like DFW to DEN, PHX, DCA etc---will cause you to be full---but with all of the pax this Summer---we should actually have larger planes on those routes---to bring in more feed and revenue to our hubs. Your RJs are competing with Frontier A319s, America West 737/A319s, AA MD80s, etc---and passengers like them better. But hey---keep thinking that you guys are making money and keeping us afloat--even though the Delta bean counters are not charging you for things they should. Hey, who is getting an extra $800 million in debt this year alone from RJs? You guys are...right? Wrong....

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[InclusiveScope]

73belair,


You don't get it, do you? Delta can manipulate you---can make you look like you are making money, or charge you for Delta services (like Delta.com use or use of outstation personel) and make you have a loss. Also, putting you on traditional 727 routes---like DFW to DEN, PHX, DCA etc---will cause you to be full---but with all of the pax this Summer---we should actually have larger planes on those routes---to bring in more feed and revenue to our hubs. Your RJs are competing with Frontier A319s, America West 737/A319s, AA MD80s, etc---and passengers like them better. But hey---keep thinking that you guys are making money and keeping us afloat--even though the Delta bean counters are not charging you for things they should. Hey, who is getting an extra $800 million in debt this year alone from RJs? You guys are...right? Wrong....

Bye Bye--General Lee

No General, YOU don't get it! ASA and CMR are not the problem. You would be in far worse shape if you were flying half full 737s or MD80s on our routes. We are profitable as are SKYW and other "independant" regionals. What do you think an ASA strike would do to DAL? I'm ready for a long walk out - are you?

 

[jaxson]

GL Please get a new drum on which to beat. Yes, accountants can allocate costs any way that they like to accomplish the "balance" that management needs to "see" to accomplish their goals (higher bonuses for them, in case you did not know!)


The fact is that CMR and ASA Load Factor are well above a reasonable break even point and thus one can reasonably deduce that both are contributing positive cash flow to the bottom line of the entire enterprise. Agreed? Could you agree with that? Say it! I dare you!

Likewise a half full Trans-con 767 is no where near its break even load factor and consequently, you have already guessed, takes money away from the entire enterprise.

It isn't rocket science.

 

[BoilerUP]

73belair,


You don't get it, do you? Delta can manipulate you---can make you look like you are making money, or charge you for Delta services (like Delta.com use or use of outstation personel) and make you have a loss. Also, putting you on traditional 727 routes---like DFW to DEN, PHX, DCA etc---will cause you to be full---but with all of the pax this Summer---we should actually have larger planes on those routes---to bring in more feed and revenue to our hubs. Your RJs are competing with Frontier A319s, America West 737/A319s, AA MD80s, etc---and passengers like them better.

General,

CR7s are on the routes you use as examples because it wasn't cost effective to keep the 722s and they don't have the cash or credit to buy new 100 seaters in the current environment, but you already knew that. Has DAL pulled all the 732s they can out of the desert?

Its crazy that they have RJs flying 2+ hours to major markets, but does DAL currently have any aircraft to replace them with? My crystal ball shows Delta ordering a bunch of 717s or E190s to replace the 732 and MD88 in the next few years, along with more CR7s and fewer CR2s.

Will mainline DAL pilots fly the 100-seater? Probably. Will DCI get more CR7s? More than likely. Can all this happen without Ch. 11? I certainly hope so...

 

[73belair]

73belair,


You can tell me that Comair was NOT making money before DAL bought them? Or that SKW is NOT making money now?

We are a regional airline we do not pretend to want to compete with A319s. If we did (well not us, but SKW or something) would buy A319s.

If you look back I never said that ASA/Comair was keeping Delta afloat. I said that if we are making money for the company, why should we have to take a pay cut? Seems the equation between getting paid and making money is working over here. However at Delta its not. And that even if we did take a cut it would be pocket change for Delta.

The industry is changing in a big way. People used to fly Delta and pay more to do it for the great service. They felt like they were treated better than other places. Now? No way. Jetblue and (even) Song etc. treat their passengers much better. The planes are newer, they have TVs to pass the time, and the tickets are cheaper. Why wouldn't they fly like that?

But that "cheapness" it gotten through low overhead, i.e. paying the pilots less. It’s an industry change and it s_u_c_k_s!

We will continue to feed, and you will continue to do the long hauls that we feed you. I just doubt we will ever see the kind of pay rates that Delta pilots have experienced in the past.
I have no doubt that Delta will get some kind of 100 seat airplanes and replace the 50 seat rj on all of those routes. (that plane is not nice to be in that long)

 

[General Lee]

Song makes money for Delta (Grinstein and Salvaggio said that in public media)---and I fly Song about every other flight. I don't deserve a pay cut----or maybe just a 1/2 pay cut......


Yes, the industry is changing. We WILL BE taking pay cuts---probably large ones. I haven't flown with one Captain that has stated "Full pay to the last day." It is economic reality---and most of us are prepared for that.

I know this whole deal $ucks for all of us--but hopefully it will all be good in the end--when we turn 60.....fingers crossed....

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[rgd]

I have flown the CR7 on the DFW-DEN and DFW-PHX for ASA for all of June and July and those flights have not been full, at least the ones I have crewed. Throw out the non-rev's and its even worse. I agree General that it's sad that we have to have a thread like this, but I don't see it getting any better anytime soon.

 

[Palerider957]

What do you think an ASA strike would do to DAL? I'm ready for a long walk out - are you?[/QUOTE]




Amen brother......praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.....

 

[FDJ2]

Neither ASA or CMR get their revenue from the passengers in their aircraft, they get their revenue from the money Delta pays them for providing the small jet lift. If the RJs were completely empty ASA and CMR would probably still be profitable, because they can count on Delta forking over the check to compensate them for the flight. Now whether Delta is profitable using those high cost jets is another story.

 

[WSurf]

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[standaman]

I don't understand

Neither ASA or CMR get their revenue from the passengers in their aircraft, they get their revenue from the money Delta pays them for providing the small jet lift. If the RJs were completely empty ASA and CMR would probably still be profitable, because they can count on Delta forking over the check to compensate them for the flight. Now whether Delta is profitable using those high cost jets is another story.

I thought ASA and Comair were Delta. I don't believe they have a fee for departure system there. Basically what you are saying is Delta writes a check to Delta. If somebody needs to educate me please but I don't get it.

 

[FDJ2]

I thought ASA and Comair were Delta.

ASA and CMR are wholly owned subsidiaries. Delta owns all the equity in both companies, but they both must compete against the other non wholly owned carriers for DCI contracts. ASA and CMR are then paid by Delta for the small jet lift they provide, they do not get their revenue from the passengers.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

Sigh....

General, WHO puts who on what routes? Does DALPA, ASA ALPA, or CMR ALPA have ANY say about where and what flies what route? I don't think any of us have any input on that. WE didn't volunteer to put the 70's on any route. DAL
put on on them. You SHOULD have them!!! You don't!! I sure as he!! don't want to sit in an rj for for than an hour personally. I don't even want to fly the thing. I prefer my 'widebody'.
You say that DAL can 'manipulate' us to make us look profitable, (we aren't keeping DAL afloat but we are putting in money otherwise they would have dumped ASA and CMR a while ago) If so then they can sure as he!! make 'you' look unprofitable. Can go both ways I think.

 

[InclusiveScope]

Song makes money for Delta (Grinstein and Salvaggio said that in public media)---and I fly Song about every other flight. I don't deserve a pay cut----or maybe just a 1/2 pay cut......

Bye Bye--General Lee

So let me get this straight.... When management says that ASA and CMR are profitable, they are manipulating the books. When management says that Song is profitable, it is the gospel truth. I guess it boils down to management is right when it benefits GL and management is wrong when it doesn't benefit GL.