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Delta Pilots:missery demands company!

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I have to say, though as a Delta pilot, I found that article embarassing. We only had the wages we had in the past because the financial situation at the airline could support it. Well, Delta cannot support those wages anymore, and so it has to change. Guess what, thats the nature of this industry. I know many, many Delta pilots who are living at the very edge of what they make. You can't do that in this industry. Things go up and they come back down. You can't live your live and buy a house based on the good times. If you do.......you're a fool.
 
michael707767 said:
I have to say, though as a Delta pilot, I found that article embarassing. We only had the wages we had in the past because the financial situation at the airline could support it. Well, Delta cannot support those wages anymore, and so it has to change. Guess what, thats the nature of this industry. I know many, many Delta pilots who are living at the very edge of what they make. You can't do that in this industry. Things go up and they come back down. You can't live your live and buy a house based on the good times. If you do.......you're a fool.
Thank you!
 
So let me get this straight, DELTA pilots expect COMAIR and ASA pilots to also take a pay cut because it's "only fair to share in the pain". WTF OVER !!


To any mainline pilot: You're more than welcome to come and share in the pain that goes along with every single day slaving away at the regionals. In fact why don't we take your pay cut and use that to give these poor FO's a pay raise so they can afford to put food on the tables for their families. Maybe then with a pay raise some of these FO's with families can finally put the applications for the Family Federal Assistance Program back in the filing cabinet and afford to buy their kids a few meager Christmas gifts this year. Heck with any luck and a little "sharing of the pain" from the allmighty Delta pilots some of these guys might actually be able to quit their second jobs. Sounds like a good idea to me.
 
There was a time when Doctors, lawyers and Pilots were one of the few employee groups that could work for someone else and get rich. At least for the pilots right now those days are coming to a close. Still can make a good living but not banking cash every month. And, like many have written we are our own worst enemy. We want the latest gadget, car, Mcmansion, et cetera.

I feel for anyone facing impending salary cuts, even the F.O who is making 200k. Chances are he/she is almost as broke as me but on a different level.

Well, maybe not, but no one in this industry who has sacrificed so much to get a job should be made to feel that their back is against the wall. Sniping at each other only plays into management's hands. And attacking General Lee does nothing but help Boss Hogg:D Cheers, Wil
 
In the regional airline publication, I forget the name, ASA and CA both reported substantial profits. DAL doesn't report financials for the WOs, but they report them independently
 
Remember also that we are separate companies. DALPA can't negitiate our pay and DAL can't cut our pay. ASA and CA have contracts with their respective companies. They would have to be renegotiated, maybe at DAL's request. We've already shown with the RFP that we won't negotiate a pay cut. We didn't do it for additional airplanes and we won't do it now.The furloughs are coming back regardless of negotiations, and concessions from us would be so insignificant that they wouldn't have an impact.
 
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QUOTE:
"We all thought we might get to that elusive Major someday and then buy a big house and get treated with respect"

Come on now. You're really that insecure??

It should only matter if you respect yourself.

What you are pining for, my friend, is status, plain and simple.

If you can achieve it, go ahead, but:

I have realized that many pilots think that their profession shoould be immune from the laws of supply and demand.

Do we think we're nobility or something?

Get as much $$$ as you can, for as long as you can. That's the way we do it here, but when the ride is finally over, we must have the maturity to realize that we've been lucky all along.

People spout and spout about what they 'deserve' until I'm sick of hearing the word come out of their pie holes. What about all the folks who have worked longer and harder than you/me? Don't they 'deserve' at least what we have?

So it really is not a matter of justice, for many of us. It is simple greed couched as though it was an issue of right and wrong.

Who was the guy who thinks that the mainline guys are 'holding the bar up for your future'. Stop kidding yourself. That ain't why they're doing it. They will keep pushing for better pay even if it meant you got less. That's capitalsm, baby!

The factors that are to blame, one again:

1) Deregulation, which opened the door to more competition.

2) Perception, on the part of the work force that pilot jobs would be available.

3) Excess entrants into the profession, making it an employer's market,

and the big one:


The stupidity, short-sightedness, and arrogance of ALPA and many mainline pilots in thinking that their cushy spots were safe forever, and simple things like scope and other contract provisions were all it would take to protect themselves.

This was a Maginot Line strategy, and it is failing.

ALPA's inability or unwillingness to keep the pilots in this country truly unified is the real reason.

No one wanted to take any short-term inconveniences or costs to plug these holes in the system.

We have sold out tomorrow for a little more today, and it predictably did not work out well.

For many of us, management will soon say "Check and Mate", and that will be that.

Don't flame me, cause I'm suffering this situation too. When times were good, I knew it might end at any moment. Now that it has, I'm not gonna b1tch about what I 'deserve'.

Management has played the game well, and knowsthe rulebook. We have played an emotional game, and been veryr prickly about our image.

Think mgmt=WWII Germany. Victory at all costs.

Pilots= WWII France. Testy, unable to really fight, angry that they have to.


I liken it to the Wal-Mart effect.

When Wal-Mart first moves to a small town, everyone starts shopping there for the lower prices (sometimes much lower). Then, local businesses start to close up shop. Then the townspeople are upset about this and starts to think that other people need to so business with the local shops. (They, of course, cannot. They "need" the cheaper prices, but those other folks can "aafford" to keep tha locals stores alive). See? What's good for you ain't good for me.

Then, all the people who work for the local merchants are out of work, and the onlt profit being made in town is Wal-Mart.

This is very similar to our profession's current state, and the main reason we should accept our guilt in bringing much of it about.
 
InclusiveScope said:
So let me get this straight.... When management says that ASA and CMR are profitable, they are manipulating the books. When management says that Song is profitable, it is the gospel truth. I guess it boils down to management is right when it benefits GL and management is wrong when it doesn't benefit GL.
Ease up, I think GLs post was a little sarcastic. His point is if what the company is saying is true, that ASA CMR and Song are making money, why should anyone flying Song have to take a pay cut, at least on the Song legs. I also hear the Shuttle is making money, as is international, so why should they take pay cuts? And before you get all pissy about what I just wrote, relax, I am being sarcastic.

No one in the Delta MEC is asking you guys to take pay cuts. Just the opposite in fact. Our current MEC is smart enough to know that the more you cost, the less pressure there is to shift flying to the regionals. Our MEC is asking that everyone at Delta share the pain, from management to the banks to the aircraft lessors. Pilot pay cuts alone will not be enough, though they are a large piece of the puzzle.
 
michael707767 said:
Our current MEC is smart enough to know that the more you cost, the less pressure there is to shift flying to the regionals.

That's the take-home message here. For all of those who are calling for DCI to share in the pain need to understand this.
 
Remember also that we are separate companies. DALPA can't negitiate our pay and DAL can't cut our pay. ASA and CA have contracts with their respective companies. They would have to be renegotiated, maybe at DAL's request. We've already shown with the RFP that we won't negotiate a pay cut. We didn't do it for additional airplanes and we won't do it now.The furloughs are coming back regardless of negotiations, and concessions from us would be so insignificant that they wouldn't have an impact

I think people are forgetting this. We aren't DAL and we (ASA) will not take a paycut. I know there are young folks out there having wet dreams about my RJ but I will not take a paycut to fly it! Hell, I don't even like the thing.
 
banks and aircraft lessors

Explain to me why banks and lessors should share the pain in this deal. First of all, most of the leases are merely financing leases not operating lease agreements.

The fact is that this is not about sharing pain, this is about remaining competitive in a market that is very cut throat.

The banks and leasing companies did not sign up to be part of the competitive market, they provided a service and are usually willing to work with their clients. That does not mean they are there to share in the losses.
 
Wait till ASA goes on strike some time next year. I think Delta pilots will change their tune when they see how important ASA is to their operation. If anything Delta should be encouraging a raise for you guys. At your current rates you already share enough pain. Someone needs to write an article about what a 23% cut would do to a 10 year RJ captain. The public needs to know that!
 
When you guys signed your contract, I don't remember being asked to share the wealth. I'de sooner strike and risk shutting Delta down than take any cut. I'm ready to walk.
 
Publishers said:
Explain to me why banks and lessors should share the pain in this deal. First of all, most of the leases are merely financing leases not operating lease agreements.

The fact is that this is not about sharing pain, this is about remaining competitive in a market that is very cut throat.

The banks and leasing companies did not sign up to be part of the competitive market, they provided a service and are usually willing to work with their clients. That does not mean they are there to share in the losses.

Why? Simple. Contracts signed with the lessors were signed during different times. For some aircraft, Delta is paying 5 times the current market lease value. If Delta goes to bankruptcy, they will get these leases changed. If the lessors negotiate outside of BK, they will get a better deal than they could get in BK. Same goes for the banks. Mortgage companys will often renegotiate deals, or take lower payments for a time if you loose your job for the simple reason that getting something is better than getting nothing. Same goes here. If Delta goes to BK, unsecured loans could be wiped out. Better to renegotiate outside of BK to a deal that Delta can afford, and therefore get most or all of your money back.
 
as a tag on to why a leasing company should renegotiate, here is an article I just found.


Delta's Pains Extend to Planes
Provided By: The Atlanta Business Chronicle
Last Modified: 7/19/2004 10:08:10 AM

A bankruptcy filing by Delta Air Lines Inc. would likely cost the companies that own many of Delta's planes tens or even hundreds of millions of dollars.

Bankrupt carriers United Air Lines Inc. and US Airways Group Inc. each have gotten at least $900 million in concessions on their airplane leases.

More than 50 prominent American companies own airplanes that they lease to Delta at interest rates ranging from 9 percent to 12 percent or more. The companies include Altria Group Inc. subsidiary Philip Morris Capital Corp., .The Walt Disney Co., Verizon Corp. subsidiary Bell Atlantic Credit Corp., and subsidiaries of AT&T Corp. and Bank of America N.A.

If the carrier (NYSE: DAL) ends up in bankruptcy - which CEO Jerry Grinstein has repeatedly warned is possible - these and other companies will have to renegotiate the terms and interest rates of their Delta plane leases under bankruptcy court supervision.

Right now, Delta has 838 planes across its operations, with 348 of them owned and leased through an outside company and 490 of them owned by Delta, according to statistics provided by Delta. Those figures include planes used by Delta's low-fare service Song and its subsidiaries Comair Inc. and Atlantic Southeast Airlines Inc.

Delta spokesman John Kennedy declined to discuss the carrier's leases.

"A 25 [percent] or 30 percent decline in value is somewhere in the neighborhood of what we'll probably see here," said Bill Rochelle, a partner with New York law firm Fulbright & Jaworski LLP who specializes in airline bankruptcies. "The process is filled with pain and suffering all around. Nobody gets out unscathed."

United (OTC: UALAQ) said in its recent annual report that it expects to save $900 million annually over the next five years from its aircraft restructuring efforts, and US Airways (Nasdaq: UAIR) also said in its annual report that is has saved $967 million from its restructured aircraft financing deals.

American Airlines Inc. (NYSE: AMR), which has narrowly avoided bankruptcy thus far, cut its aircraft rental payments by $150 million in 2003 and is selling off some planes to further reduce its obligations.

Rochelle pointed out many of Delta's plane lessors are probably hesitant to give steep cuts right now because none of them can tell what cuts - if any - the other lessors are giving.

"It's all very cloudy until bankruptcy actually occurs and everybody can see what everybody else is doing," Rochelle said. "That's when the real concessions come."

He added, however, that Delta is probably trying to renegotiate some plane leases now in its ongoing efforts to cut costs and avoid bankruptcy like American did. Delta management also is seeking a $900 million reduction in pilot pay, in addition to across-the-board cuts, to help the airline better compete with low-cost carriers.

Industry watchers and analysts have speculated Delta may file for bankruptcy as soon as October or November. At the end of the first quarter, Delta had a whopping $20.6 billion debt load and cash reserves of $2.7 billion.

The company's second quarter results are scheduled to be released July 19, and Delta's net losses are expected to be high because of two noncash charges totaling $1.65 billion. The charges are related to deferred income taxes and pension contributions, and they will not affect Delta's cash position.

Regardless of whether Delta ends up in Chapter 11 bankruptcy, many of the owners of Delta's planes have probably already set aside enough money to cover any losses they may incur on Delta leases, according to local bankruptcy attorney Dan Kolber, a partner with Atlanta law firm Gambrell & Stolz LLP.

"This isn't the sort of thing that takes an investor by surprise, especially given what United and US Air have been through," said Kolber, who is a former executive with the now-defunct startup carrier called Air Atlanta.

Disney (NYSE: DIS), for example, said in its most recent quarterly filing that it was "monitoring the recoverability" of plane leases it has with Delta and FedEx Corp. (NYSE: FDX), and that it may have to write off as much as $119 million if Delta files for bankruptcy. Disney took a write-down of $114 million in the third quarter of 2003 for its plane leases with United. Disney spokesman John Spelich declined to comment for this story.

AT&T Corp. (NYSE: T), which holds leases on seven Delta planes worth a collective $72 million, has written off .$310 million related to its aircraft leases over the past two years and warned investors in its recent annual filing that it may face additional losses if its aircraft leases are restructured further. AT&T spokesman Dan Lawler declined to comment further.

Verizon (NYSE: VZ) has taken charges totaling $301 million over the past two years, most of which came from its plane leases, according to its annual report. Verizon spokesman Bob Varettoni declined to comment for this story.

John Mulligan, CEO of Altria's (NYSE: MO) Philip Morris Capital Corp. (PMCC), declined to comment on his company's plane leases. However, PMCC told investors in its annual report that it was shifting the focus of its finance lease portfolio to an emphasis on "maximizing gains and generating reliable cash flow" instead of focusing primarily on growth. PMCC is the largest Delta plane owner, with 19 aircraft worth $241 million.

Leases on airplanes and other heavy machinery became a popular investment tool in the bullish 1990s economy among cash-rich companies looking for ways to shelter some of their money.

In a healthy economy, plane leases are attractive because they often yield higher-than-average interest rates (usually .9 percent or more), and the companies that own the planes can claim tax write-offs each year on the depreciating value of the aircraft.

Aircraft are also considered easier investments than other heavy machinery such as railroad cars or construction equipment because they are easy to transport and can sometimes be converted to cargo or military planes if the commercial passenger market is weak.

The leases also allow airlines to pay lower monthly rental fees - $100,000 to $300,000 per month depending on aircraft type and lease terms - instead of buying planes outright for tens of millions of dollars each.

And at the end of the lease term (typically 10 to 20 years), the owner still has some equity in the plane, which can be sold.

"It's a very good way to do some tax-advantaged investing," Rochelle said.

The problem for Delta and its peers, such as United and US Airways, is that many of their plane leases date back .10 years or more, and those deals were done at higher valuations and often with back-end load clauses that make them far more expensive than today's leases.

"The rates on some of these old leases are way above today's market - sometimes by a factor of three," said Clive Medland, senior vice president at air transportation consulting firm Simat, Helliesen & Eichner Inc.

Monthly lease payments for a Boeing 737, for example, might be cut from $200,000 to $90,000 under bankruptcy court oversight, he said.

One thing in favor of plane owners who lease to Delta is the likelihood that the carrier will want to keep all or most of its planes in service even if a bankruptcy filing occurs.

Delta's fleet is still relatively young - the average age is 12 years - and the carrier has made no overtures of changing its aircraft type or scaling back from any of its hubs.

Another bright spot for Delta plane owners is the weakness of the secondary plane market.

There currently are 230 passenger jets owned or leased by American carriers in long-term storage in deserts in the Southwest, according to data compiled by BACK Aviation Solutions, a Connecticut firm that tracks airline fleets. Nineteen of those planes are Delta's.

Worldwide, there are 1,217 cargo and passenger jets in long-term storage out of a total of 18,091 aircraft, or 6.7 percent, BACK Aviation data shows.

That means the owners of Delta planes would probably be more inclined to negotiate their leases with Delta so the carrier keeps using their planes, Rochelle said. The other option is running the risk of not finding a new buyer and having to put the planes in storage where they draw little or no revenue.

"If [owners] take their plane back, they will have the great pleasure of parking it in an Arizona desert and paying for storage and maintenance," Rochelle said. "The only other thing you can do with these planes is use them as a giant, expensive paperweight."
 
Share the pain vs. tough talk

asacap said:
When you guys signed your contract, I don't remember being asked to share the wealth. I'de sooner strike and risk shutting Delta down than take any cut. I'm ready to walk.
That's a hard line, but I think the General has a point.

As far as Delta goes, would it be fair for the pilots to take all the pay cuts and leave all other parts of the airline at the same rates? If ASA and Comair are wholey owned by DAL, you might be expected to take a hit. Would that be fair.....although with this industry, fair is irrevelant.

Could DAL just get MESA or some other contract carrier to feed Delta or are you completely protected by your contract? Again, nobody is completely protected in this industry, it's just words on paper that can be illiminated through various means.

For the other pilot that said there are lots of guys out there probably "wet dreaming" about flying your RJ......it not wet dreaming, it's just some sick form of "self abuse" at best.

Good luck to us all.
 
Jeff Helgeson said:
As far as Delta goes, would it be fair for the pilots to take all the pay cuts and leave all other parts of the airline at the same rates? If ASA and Comair are wholey owned by DAL, you might be expected to take a hit. Would that be fair.....although with this industry, fair is irrevelant.

Good luck to us all.
Fair is subjective, I guess. Asking a guy making $150,000 a year to take a 30% paycut may be as fair to some people as asking a guy making $25,000 a year to take the same paycut. Why, moving into a $200,000 house from a $400,000 house is no different than asking a guy to move from his one bedroom apartment into his parent's house! After all, they guys flying the RJs aren't real pilots. True, the Delta guys would still be the highest paid in the industry after the 30% cut, but then again, the ASA and Comair guys would be the highest paid in the fast food industry. Or would they? Regardless of how much profit each company makes, isn't there some minimum standard of living that we should expect? No, I suppose that would not be fair.
 
It's real easy. You, ASA & Comair guys/gals, just say no. Delta is renegotiating the contract with mainline. You have a contract with your respective companies. If your MEC chooses to renegotiate and 50% + one pilot votes yes then the majority has spoken and that is what is going to happen. Converesly if 50% + one pilot votes no then current contract stays in place. As for ASA and their current negotiations, I wish you good luck. I say that because A. I don't think the current administration during an election year is going to allow any airline, regional or major, to go on strike and b. Delta management learned a lesson from the Comair strike and I don't think a shutdown if allowed would harm the company as much as it did before.

As for the original article that started this thread, I think the newspapers can always find people in this industry that voice an opinion that is in the minority. I know that DALPA wants a viable plan by management as to how the concessions are going to be used. I think pretty much anyone would believe that to be a smart idea. I know of very few people that would say "OK here is our money and don't change a thing because you're doing so well right now"
 
leases

Your points are valid however it is difficult to tell exactly who the players are from the article and the fact that Comair and the other regionals are mixed into the equation.

If they are typical, you have owned aircraft, owned through financed leases, equipment trust aircraft, tax incentive foreign based leasing, and more normal operating leases.

To a number of these, the relativity to the market value today is irrevelant. It is just like you went to your bank and arranged a loan for a new car. What you can go into Enterprise and rent them for is irrevelant to your situation. Likewise you are part of some offshore tax financing, returning the aircraft is not really an option. For all intent and purpose, you own it.

Ultimately all of these forced adjustments reduce the money available in the future. I remember Continental BK more than any as they were merciless on the lessors. There was not a rush to get back into Continental later.

My point, agreeably somewhat missed, was that the pilot group should not be demanding that the banks and lessors share any pain with them, for the most part they are all taking it on the chin industry wide for the current state of the business.
 
Publishers said:
My point, agreeably somewhat missed, was that the pilot group should not be demanding that the banks and lessors share any pain with them, for the most part they are all taking it on the chin industry wide for the current state of the business.
Bottom line, the banks and lessors can renegotiate their loans/contracts in backruptcy or out of it. Either way, they will be renegotiated.
 
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BlackCoffee said:
Wait till ASA goes on strike some time next year. I think Delta pilots will change their tune when they see how important ASA is to their operation.
Strike? I say go for it. First of all, doubtful if the government will allow it. Second of all, with 1000 Delta pilots on the street, I would bet Delta would shut you down in a minute, transfer the airplanes to a new subsidiary to be staffed by furloughed Delta pilots. The Delta pilots have very little leverage to negotiate right now. The ASA pilots do not have a whole lot more.
 
xray678 said:
Strike? I would bet Delta would shut you down in a minute, transfer the airplanes to a new subsidiary to be staffed by furloughed Delta pilots. The Delta pilots have very little leverage to negotiate right now. The ASA pilots do not have a whole lot more.
Isn't there a 4 letter word for pilots who do that?

Besides, it's not something they could do very quickly, it would take months, at least.

Even bringing in the semi scab level regionals wouldn't solve the problem, there just isn't that much extra lift available quick enough.

89 days of CMR shutting down CVG cost how many millions? What do you think ASA shutting down ATL feed would cost over say, 6 months?

The CMR strike was during "good" times. An extended ASA strike would probably be enough to push DAL into CH11. Which is probably why GG would welcome one.
 
Man, I'm gone for a couple days and this stupid article comes out. First of all, the opinions in that article are merely opinions of 2-3 pilots. Its a real stretch to say they accurately represent 8500. Nobody is asking subsidiaries for paycuts ...the general feeling is that, fair to us or not, the cuts are going to come from the mainline pilots & some creditors only. (popularized by the phrase: stakeholders) Whether Delta or DCI start asking for cuts at the subsidiaries later will have NOTHING to do with this agreement. Its fairly evident that GG sees this as a mainline problem at this time. This article was written to stir emotion in CVG and sell papers.

Its unfortunate, however, that the pilots quoted made reference to a dollar figure since that always results in eye rolling, jealousy, division, and playing of the world's smallest violins. It doesn't, however, make their sacrifices any easier than someone making less money taking pacuts. All of us generally live fairly close to our means no matter how much or little we make. To throw rocks at someone because they make X dollars is pretty childish. For all we know, those pilots said they were lucky to still have jobs, love flying for Delta and happy to still have six figure incomes after the cuts but that type of talk doesn't sell papers.

For the record, $400,000 won't buy you much here in NJ. A 15-year old townhouse goes for $300,000.
 
DAL737FO said:
It's real easy. You, ASA & Comair guys/gals, just say no. if 50% + one pilot votes no then current contract stays in place.
Not exactly, at PSA pilots were denied the opportunity to vote on jets for jobs because ALPA knew that it would be voted down. ALPA wanted the deal, so they packed the room with folks from National and held a ratification vote of all in attendance.
 
Vortilon said:
Nobody is asking subsidiaries for paycuts ...the general feeling is that, fair to us or not, the cuts are going to come from the mainline pilots & some creditors only.
If it makes you feel any better, I expect the other DL mainline employees are going to take some cuts too. Most I've talked to already see it coming and are preparing. Granted the cuts won't be as large as the pilots, but they will feel some pain too.
 
MedFlyer,

It doesn't make me feel any better but they are certainly smart if they are preparing...its hard to imagine the other mainline employees escaping loss of pay during the restructuring. I just hope this plan works....when I came to work for the company it was kicking *** and making billion dollar profits. Sure would be nice to see that type of success again.

Fingers crossed,
 
~~~^~~~ said:
Not exactly, at PSA pilots were denied the opportunity to vote on jets for jobs because ALPA knew that it would be voted down. ALPA wanted the deal, so they packed the room with folks from National and held a ratification vote of all in attendance.
Yeah right, nice spin. Now how about some facts like the PSA MEC, elected by the PSA pilots, voted overwhelmingly for it.

PSA Pilots Approve 70-Seat Flying Agreement with US
Airways

The PSA MEC on July 22 ratified Letter of Agreement No. 8,
agreeing to terms and conditions for the operation of 70-seat
jets. The MEC voted 8-1 to ratify the proposal, which provides
for the extension of the 50-50 staffing ratio, as outlined in the
Jets for Jobs protocol with US Airways and its pilots.
 
FDJ

It makes sense that you would like the Jets for Jobs (revision) at US Air's wholly owned owed because it gives mainline pilots preferential bidding over pilots who have flown for there since day one. So in your world of "fair" being on the Delta seniority list for 1 second gives you seniority rights over ASA employees who have been here 25 years. The fact that US Air did it to their wholly owned's did it probably gives you some justification for Delta doing it.

I've recieved e-mails from those involved and ALPA National led the MEC into a "do or die" negotiation - then has tried to spin the result.

No, I am afraid that no amount of wash, spin and repeat is going to cleanse the flat out job theft that ALPA imposed on US Air's wholly owned carriers.

LOA - 8 is a low point in ALPA's history and a sore on this union.

The RJDC is thankful for an illustration of just how nasty ALPA can be when unrestrained by the Court.

~~~^~~~
 
Fins, I never characterized it as fair or unfair. I just corrected your misinformation which you and your RJDC buddies seem to spew on a regular basis. Since Dan Ford seems to have no problem misrepresenting the facts it can be a full time job.

Once again you put out the spin that ALPA national imposed this J4J deal on PSA, when in fact the PSA MEC overwhelmingly approved it in an 8-1 vote.
 

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