Delta Pilots:missery demands company!

[michael707767]

I have to say, though as a Delta pilot, I found that article embarassing. We only had the wages we had in the past because the financial situation at the airline could support it. Well, Delta cannot support those wages anymore, and so it has to change. Guess what, thats the nature of this industry. I know many, many Delta pilots who are living at the very edge of what they make. You can't do that in this industry. Things go up and they come back down. You can't live your live and buy a house based on the good times. If you do.......you're a fool.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

Sadly, wise words Mike.

 

[73belair]

I have to say, though as a Delta pilot, I found that article embarassing. We only had the wages we had in the past because the financial situation at the airline could support it. Well, Delta cannot support those wages anymore, and so it has to change. Guess what, thats the nature of this industry. I know many, many Delta pilots who are living at the very edge of what they make. You can't do that in this industry. Things go up and they come back down. You can't live your live and buy a house based on the good times. If you do.......you're a fool.

Thank you!

 

[MJG]

So let me get this straight, DELTA pilots expect COMAIR and ASA pilots to also take a pay cut because it's "only fair to share in the pain". WTF OVER !!


To any mainline pilot: You're more than welcome to come and share in the pain that goes along with every single day slaving away at the regionals. In fact why don't we take your pay cut and use that to give these poor FO's a pay raise so they can afford to put food on the tables for their families. Maybe then with a pay raise some of these FO's with families can finally put the applications for the Family Federal Assistance Program back in the filing cabinet and afford to buy their kids a few meager Christmas gifts this year. Heck with any luck and a little "sharing of the pain" from the allmighty Delta pilots some of these guys might actually be able to quit their second jobs. Sounds like a good idea to me.

 

[wil]

There was a time when Doctors, lawyers and Pilots were one of the few employee groups that could work for someone else and get rich. At least for the pilots right now those days are coming to a close. Still can make a good living but not banking cash every month. And, like many have written we are our own worst enemy. We want the latest gadget, car, Mcmansion, et cetera.

I feel for anyone facing impending salary cuts, even the F.O who is making 200k. Chances are he/she is almost as broke as me but on a different level.

Well, maybe not, but no one in this industry who has sacrificed so much to get a job should be made to feel that their back is against the wall. Sniping at each other only plays into management's hands. And attacking General Lee does nothing but help Boss Hogg Cheers, Wil

 

[wms]

In the regional airline publication, I forget the name, ASA and CA both reported substantial profits. DAL doesn't report financials for the WOs, but they report them independently

 

[wms]

Remember also that we are separate companies. DALPA can't negitiate our pay and DAL can't cut our pay. ASA and CA have contracts with their respective companies. They would have to be renegotiated, maybe at DAL's request. We've already shown with the RFP that we won't negotiate a pay cut. We didn't do it for additional airplanes and we won't do it now.The furloughs are coming back regardless of negotiations, and concessions from us would be so insignificant that they wouldn't have an impact.

 

[100LL... Again!]

QUOTE:
"We all thought we might get to that elusive Major someday and then buy a big house and get treated with respect"

Come on now. You're really that insecure??

It should only matter if you respect yourself.

What you are pining for, my friend, is status, plain and simple.

If you can achieve it, go ahead, but:

I have realized that many pilots think that their profession shoould be immune from the laws of supply and demand.

Do we think we're nobility or something?

Get as much $$$ as you can, for as long as you can. That's the way we do it here, but when the ride is finally over, we must have the maturity to realize that we've been lucky all along.

People spout and spout about what they 'deserve' until I'm sick of hearing the word come out of their pie holes. What about all the folks who have worked longer and harder than you/me? Don't they 'deserve' at least what we have?

So it really is not a matter of justice, for many of us. It is simple greed couched as though it was an issue of right and wrong.

Who was the guy who thinks that the mainline guys are 'holding the bar up for your future'. Stop kidding yourself. That ain't why they're doing it. They will keep pushing for better pay even if it meant you got less. That's capitalsm, baby!

The factors that are to blame, one again:

1) Deregulation, which opened the door to more competition.

2) Perception, on the part of the work force that pilot jobs would be available.

3) Excess entrants into the profession, making it an employer's market,

and the big one:


The stupidity, short-sightedness, and arrogance of ALPA and many mainline pilots in thinking that their cushy spots were safe forever, and simple things like scope and other contract provisions were all it would take to protect themselves.

This was a Maginot Line strategy, and it is failing.

ALPA's inability or unwillingness to keep the pilots in this country truly unified is the real reason.

No one wanted to take any short-term inconveniences or costs to plug these holes in the system.

We have sold out tomorrow for a little more today, and it predictably did not work out well.

For many of us, management will soon say "Check and Mate", and that will be that.

Don't flame me, cause I'm suffering this situation too. When times were good, I knew it might end at any moment. Now that it has, I'm not gonna b1tch about what I 'deserve'.

Management has played the game well, and knowsthe rulebook. We have played an emotional game, and been veryr prickly about our image.

Think mgmt=WWII Germany. Victory at all costs.

Pilots= WWII France. Testy, unable to really fight, angry that they have to.


I liken it to the Wal-Mart effect.

When Wal-Mart first moves to a small town, everyone starts shopping there for the lower prices (sometimes much lower). Then, local businesses start to close up shop. Then the townspeople are upset about this and starts to think that other people need to so business with the local shops. (They, of course, cannot. They "need" the cheaper prices, but those other folks can "aafford" to keep tha locals stores alive). See? What's good for you ain't good for me.

Then, all the people who work for the local merchants are out of work, and the onlt profit being made in town is Wal-Mart.

This is very similar to our profession's current state, and the main reason we should accept our guilt in bringing much of it about.

 

[michael707767]

So let me get this straight.... When management says that ASA and CMR are profitable, they are manipulating the books. When management says that Song is profitable, it is the gospel truth. I guess it boils down to management is right when it benefits GL and management is wrong when it doesn't benefit GL.

Ease up, I think GLs post was a little sarcastic. His point is if what the company is saying is true, that ASA CMR and Song are making money, why should anyone flying Song have to take a pay cut, at least on the Song legs. I also hear the Shuttle is making money, as is international, so why should they take pay cuts? And before you get all pissy about what I just wrote, relax, I am being sarcastic.

No one in the Delta MEC is asking you guys to take pay cuts. Just the opposite in fact. Our current MEC is smart enough to know that the more you cost, the less pressure there is to shift flying to the regionals. Our MEC is asking that everyone at Delta share the pain, from management to the banks to the aircraft lessors. Pilot pay cuts alone will not be enough, though they are a large piece of the puzzle.

 

[bvt1151]

Our current MEC is smart enough to know that the more you cost, the less pressure there is to shift flying to the regionals.

That's the take-home message here. For all of those who are calling for DCI to share in the pain need to understand this.

 

[180ToTheMarker]

Remember also that we are separate companies. DALPA can't negitiate our pay and DAL can't cut our pay. ASA and CA have contracts with their respective companies. They would have to be renegotiated, maybe at DAL's request. We've already shown with the RFP that we won't negotiate a pay cut. We didn't do it for additional airplanes and we won't do it now.The furloughs are coming back regardless of negotiations, and concessions from us would be so insignificant that they wouldn't have an impact

I think people are forgetting this. We aren't DAL and we (ASA) will not take a paycut. I know there are young folks out there having wet dreams about my RJ but I will not take a paycut to fly it! Hell, I don't even like the thing.

 

[Publishers]

banks and aircraft lessors

Explain to me why banks and lessors should share the pain in this deal. First of all, most of the leases are merely financing leases not operating lease agreements.

The fact is that this is not about sharing pain, this is about remaining competitive in a market that is very cut throat.

The banks and leasing companies did not sign up to be part of the competitive market, they provided a service and are usually willing to work with their clients. That does not mean they are there to share in the losses.

 

[BlackCoffee]

Wait till ASA goes on strike some time next year. I think Delta pilots will change their tune when they see how important ASA is to their operation. If anything Delta should be encouraging a raise for you guys. At your current rates you already share enough pain. Someone needs to write an article about what a 23% cut would do to a 10 year RJ captain. The public needs to know that!

 

[asacap]

When you guys signed your contract, I don't remember being asked to share the wealth. I'de sooner strike and risk shutting Delta down than take any cut. I'm ready to walk.

 

[michael707767]

Explain to me why banks and lessors should share the pain in this deal. First of all, most of the leases are merely financing leases not operating lease agreements.

The fact is that this is not about sharing pain, this is about remaining competitive in a market that is very cut throat.

The banks and leasing companies did not sign up to be part of the competitive market, they provided a service and are usually willing to work with their clients. That does not mean they are there to share in the losses.

Why? Simple. Contracts signed with the lessors were signed during different times. For some aircraft, Delta is paying 5 times the current market lease value. If Delta goes to bankruptcy, they will get these leases changed. If the lessors negotiate outside of BK, they will get a better deal than they could get in BK. Same goes for the banks. Mortgage companys will often renegotiate deals, or take lower payments for a time if you loose your job for the simple reason that getting something is better than getting nothing. Same goes here. If Delta goes to BK, unsecured loans could be wiped out. Better to renegotiate outside of BK to a deal that Delta can afford, and therefore get most or all of your money back.