Delta Pilots don't check for frost on wings

[callowayhd]

at some companies it is ok to take off with frost adhering to the BOTTOM of the wing caused by cold soaked fuel

 

[ACL65PILOT]

at some companies it is ok to take off with frost adhering to the BOTTOM of the wing caused by cold soaked fuel

It has more to do with the manufacturer specs.

Most can take off with less than a 1/4 inch of frost on the bottom side, but it has to be approved by the airplane maker.

 

[generaltso]

it was probably dew

 

[DH106]

If the original poster, batsky2000, wasn't such a useless troll, he'd have either defended himself by now or admitted his ignorance.

But, he hasn't spoken up in 3 pages of threads. Time to just let this thread die.

Just be glad that none of us will be on his supposed Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. Who knows... it's probably a Microsoft Flight Simualtor G, anyway.

 

[pipejockey]

I can't speak for DL, but hot water is no longer an approved method to remove frost from the wings anymore, at least at WN. I'm sure that DAB doesn't have a way to deice Airplanes either. We've had this problem as well out in CA with cold soaked fuel frost and not having any way to remove it other than to wait for it to melt. It sounds like the crew did the only thing they could which was wait for the frost to melt. Sorry you missed your connecting flight.

I disagree. The other option was to not let a passenger dictate whether a plane departs or not. This putz should have been ignored. I'm sure he wouldn't be too happy if we came to his office and started telling him how to do his job. Time to black out the windows I suppose. The cattle back there doesn't pay enough for the privilege of the view anyway.

 

[Linedriver]

I disagree. The other option was to not let a passenger dictate whether a plane departs or not. This putz should have been ignored. I'm sure he wouldn't be too happy if we came to his office and started telling him how to do his job. Time to black out the windows I suppose. The cattle back there doesn't pay enough for the privilege of the view anyway.

You can't ignore or disregard a public comment like that, it has to be addressed by the crew and dealt with at that moment. If not, it opens the airline up to speculation and liability. The crew did the right thing. Hopefully the frost did form after the wing inspection and I'm sure that is getting looked into as well.

 

[Abernathy]

I disagree. The other option was to not let a passenger dictate whether a plane departs or not. This putz should have been ignored. I'm sure he wouldn't be too happy if we came to his office and started telling him how to do his job. Time to black out the windows I suppose. The cattle back there doesn't pay enough for the privilege of the view anyway.

You mean if a pax notices frost or ice on the wing that would be illegal to depart with, you would just ignore it because it was noticed by a pax?

 

[maru657]

The experience level at the FAA has dropped to an astonishing low as evidenced by their worries about frost. I'm hearing about FED's for major 121 carriers with no 121 or large airplane experience at all.

 

[relief tube]

I just want to say thanks to the Delta Pilots on yesterday's Flight DL1954 DAB to ATL for making myself as well as 3/4 of the rest of the passengers miss their connections.

The flight was set to depart at 0600, but taxied out at 0630. We taxied to the runway, stopped short of taxing onto it when a passenger told a FA that they saw frost on the wing, the Captain came out putting on his hat and jacket with a flashlight to look outside through the window, after a couple more looks we taxied back and he made the decision to wait till the sun came out to heat the wings and melt the frost.

My question is don't you guys do walk arounds anymore? That should have been found before you taxi out of the ramp. Plus when we got back to the ramp, these idiots never even walked out to inspect for themselves, they just waited till the sun came out.


Just for future reference, HOT WATER works great when by 0630 the temp was well abouve freezing.

Even if the flight left by 0700, everyone would have made their connections, heck the Delta flight that was due to fly after us, took off first

I was going to SMF, since I missed that I had to fly to SFO and drive, thanks.

What a bunch of idiots, morons, etc................

why the ******************** are passengers posting ******************** on here?

Seriously, this place should require your pilots cert. number to have an account so we don't have to listen to dumb ******************** like this.

As "idiotic" as that pilot was, he manned up by having the sense to not take off, embarassing as it was for him.

 

[EV120]

Remember this was DAL. Good goes around, great lands on Mike...

Couldn't resist, sorry.

 

[relief tube]

I think I speak for most airline pilots.....I don't give a sh-t if you make your connection. My job is to get you there alive and well.

exactly. we dont pick those 35 minute connenctions on orbitz for you. Hell, if there was no orbitz and no internet fare searches you'd actually be paying a fare that actually covers the cost and we wouldn't have lost 40% of our paychecks in this industry.

 

[Wesb737fo]

As far as the original poster, I read about half of his post and the " furloughed DL pilot " indicator lit up. Only to be confirmed by Voice of Reason a few post later.

I guess we haven't heard form Batsky because he checked into the funny farm after realizing what a tool he was. He's probably sitting in front of the television quoting TOP GUN lines....." Maverick...you'll get your RIO when you get to your ship...if not...call me ....I'll fly with you."

 

[Mike man]

I guess we haven't heard form Batsky because he checked into the funny farm after realizing what a tool he was. He's probably sitting in front of the television quoting TOP GUN lines....." Maverick...you'll get your RIO when you get to your ship...if not...call me ....I'll fly with you."

No way...he will post in a day or two with some terrific story about how he was doing something in China or Inner Mongolia for some fractional with growth opportunity, and didn't have internet because it was too primitive of a place but somehow has a need for a GV to fly in executives from Europe to go on a skiing trip with their family.

Or something like that...

 

[ex-nutjeter]

Since everyone seems to have not liked the poster's thread, most of the reply's have been against him, and not about the topic. I want to get back to the topic at hand.

I am curious about something, if a passenger tells you they see frost, so you walk back with a flashlight and look out, make the decision to taxi back to the ramp, but don't go out to do a physical inspection yourself and just decide to wait for the sun? Would it not have made sense to do a tactle touch of the surface as required by the regs? Do they not have ladders at DAB? And I don't remember anything in the regs that says you can't use hot water to get rid of frost?, In places like DAB, that is your only choice, the original poster said the temp was above freezing, so the water would not freeze back anyways.

I guess that is the difference between corporate aviation and airline, we improvise to solve a problem to get out on time, I am not trying to add more fuel to the fire, but com'on guys, there are always ways to make things happen. It is too bad that the old days where the airlines would look out for their number 1 commodity are long gone, the days where they would hold a flight a few minutes so that a passenger would not have to miss their connection, things like that, now we are used to paying for everything and getting bad service for it.

 

[volav8r1]

Since everyone seems to have not liked the poster's thread, most of the reply's have been against him, and not about the topic. I want to get back to the topic at hand.

I am curious about something, if a passenger tells you they see frost, so you walk back with a flashlight and look out, make the decision to taxi back to the ramp, but don't go out to do a physical inspection yourself and just decide to wait for the sun? Would it not have made sense to do a tactle touch of the surface as required by the regs? Do they not have ladders at DAB? And I don't remember anything in the regs that says you can't use hot water to get rid of frost?, In places like DAB, that is your only choice, the original poster said the temp was above freezing, so the water would not freeze back anyways.

I guess that is the difference between corporate aviation and airline, we improvise to solve a problem to get out on time, I am not trying to add more fuel to the fire, but com'on guys, there are always ways to make things happen. It is too bad that the old days where the airlines would look out for their number 1 commodity are long gone, the days where they would hold a flight a few minutes so that a passenger would not have to miss their connection, things like that, now we are used to paying for everything and getting bad service for it.

I was going to ignore this but i just can't. I'm curious where you flew all those airplanes in your profile?

1.) Assuming their is any validity to the original post (which I highly doubt), the crew would have requested a "tactile inspection" of the upper wing. If there was something there they would have de-iced. End of story! If there wasn't deiceing fluid available then there really isn't much choice but to wait till the contaminant melted.

The reason I ask where you flew all those big airplanes, is I would love to know which airline has a "Just throw some hot water on the wing" clause in their deice specs. Maybe the temp was above freezing, but even boiling hot water will cool very quickly when thrown on a cold soaked wing! especially when you take into account there is freezing cold fuel in that wing. Congratulations! You succeeded in melting the frost, but now you have a sheet of clear ice on a criticle surface! Seriously? You have never seen in the regs where it prohibits this?! Think about that statement! The regs don't specifically state I can't shut down both engines at 10,000 feet and coast in to the airport then restart & taxi to the gate either, but would that be a good idea?

Maybe in the Corporate Aviation world there is "always a way to make things happen". But in the "Airline World" we operate under a little thing called "SOP" (Standard Operating Proceedure). Maybe you are willing to put your ticket on the line to get "Mr. CEO" to TEB on time, but I am not at all willing to do the same to get people like the original poster to ATL in time to make a connection that he really had NO WAY of making anyway.

"Throw some hot water on it"!.....HA, that's a good one!!