Delta pilots-accuracy in reporting re:your contract

[General Lee]

Also Red starting Nov 1st all trips will be worth at least 5:15 per day, unless the trip arrives back to base between 12am and 2am local time (rare) on the last day. There are some trips now that are worth less (3 day to Quito from ATL is currently worth 13:30 with an allnighter from Quito at the end). But, if the trip stays the same Nov 1st, it will be worth 15:45, and that's with a 24 hour layover down there and about 10:30 worth of actual flying. That 4 day I stated in the above post with an allnighter attached at the end? Instead of 18 or 19 hours, it will be worth 21 (done by 6am day 4).

Some of the trips out there probably aren't great and are junior, but they are getting better pay wise, and the junior in category get senior quicker due to big hiring and upcoming retirements. You just can't argue with quick upward movement Red. That's something you guys lack, for the next decade.

Say hi to your buddy Scoot for me. Good luck with that.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[nwaf16dude]

So DAL has a no $hit double time program? Like to hear more about that.

Yes we do. It's only for same day/next day trips on your off days. During busy times in undermanned categories, it's pretty easy to get one. It's much easier if you are senior and live in base. As a junior commuter, it's pretty hard to get one except in the summer. Senior in-base guys can easily get one or two per month if they leave room on their schedules, especially on weekends. It goes by seniority, but a senior guy can't get a second one if there is an available junior guy that wants it and is legal for it.

 

[waveflyer]

One man's "inefficient trip" is another man's relaxing day at work. You couldn't pay me enough to do those "efficient trips" that you love so much.

There's nothing relaxing about a 12hour duty day that pays 6

 

[Roomwithaview]

Yes we do. It's only for same day/next day trips on your off days. During busy times in undermanned categories, it's pretty easy to get one. It's much easier if you are senior and live in base. As a junior commuter, it's pretty hard to get one except in the summer. Senior in-base guys can easily get one or two per month if they leave room on their schedules, especially on weekends. It goes by seniority, but a senior guy can't get a second one if there is an available junior guy that wants it and is legal for it.

Sounds eerily similar to our POT system but that only pays 1.5. However, the algorithm and who gets the trips are almost identical. The super senior and/or the dude that can be at the airport in an hour.

 

[nwaf16dude]

Sounds eerily similar to our POT system but that only pays 1.5. However, the algorithm and who gets the trips are almost identical. The super senior and/or the dude that can be at the airport in an hour.

They pay double for line holders. If you are on reserve, they are single pay, but over the reserve guarantee. For example, in may I bid to be on reserve because I had a vacation week. With the vacation, my guarantee for the month was about 84 hours. I got called for a green-slip for a three day Amsterdam trip on my days off (worth about 18.5 hours). So despite only flying about 40 total hours for the month, I got paid 84+18.5=102.5 for the month. It's a pretty good system, but definitely favors in-base guys. I'd like to see us get a time and a half threshold of 75-80 hours in addition, but there are definitely some potential unintended consequences for that.

 

[Roomwithaview]

Some numbers comparisons using DAL scheds handbook

DTW-MKE 1:10 SWA DTW-MDW :55 1.5 CR
MKE-IAD 1:45 SWA MDW-IAD 1:45 1.92 CR Min G 5.0
LIMOed to DCA 6.25 DUTY
DCA-SLC 4:49 SWA BWI-SLC 4:33 5.6 CR 7.8 9.5 x .74 No Rig
SLC-SEA 2:15 SWA SLC-LAX 1:55 2.2 CR
SEA-SLC 2 00 SWA LAX-SLC 1:45 1.9 CR 8.9 11.5 x .74 No Rig
SLC-DCA 4 03 SWA SLC-BWI 4 08 5.1 CR
DCA-DTW 1.41 SWA BWI-DTW 1:4 1.9 CR
TAFB 64:36 (64.5)
DAL 18:28 (18.5) x 210 = $3885
SWA 21.7 x 190 = $4123

 

[Roomwithaview]

Mostly... the highly coveted green slip. Granted, there's a number of assignment steps that CS has to go through until a "green slip" pops up - but yes, double pay for line holders on an off day for anything above the lesser of the average line value, or 75 hours.

Page 57 thru 59 from the document... Plain language based on the PWA from the DALMEC scheduling committee.

http://www.pbshelp.info/delta/Scheduling Reference Handbook Revision.pdf#page58

They pay double for line holders. If you are on reserve, they are single pay, but over the reserve guarantee. For example, in may I bid to be on reserve because I had a vacation week. With the vacation, my guarantee for the month was about 84 hours. I got called for a green-slip for a three day Amsterdam trip on my days off (worth about 18.5 hours). So despite only flying about 40 total hours for the month, I got paid 84+18.5=102.5 for the month. It's a pretty good system, but definitely favors in-base guys. I'd like to see us get a time and a half threshold of 75-80 hours in addition, but there are definitely some potential unintended consequences for that.

Ours is lucrative for those that play the game and/or live in base.

Vacation month, sit reserve, bang an OT trip, could be in the same shape here as well. The numbers above are comparing what we would get for a sim trip. Some things I don't like now are the 5.0 MG as opposed to a hard 6.5. This is where they get us on unproductive days. However, a hard 6.5 could/would result in unintended consequences as well, like longer duty days, especially on the last day which would blow.

 

[nwaf16dude]

DTW-MKE 1:10 SWA DTW-MDW :55 1.5 CR
MKE-IAD 1:45 SWA MDW-IAD 1:45 1.92 CR Min G 5.0
LIMOed to DCA 6.25 DUTY
DCA-SLC 4:49 SWA BWI-SLC 4:33 5.6 CR 7.8 9.5 x .74 No Rig
SLC-SEA 2:15 SWA SLC-LAX 1:55 2.2 CR
SEA-SLC 2 00 SWA LAX-SLC 1:45 1.9 CR 8.9 11.5 x .74 No Rig
SLC-DCA 4 03 SWA SLC-BWI 4 08 5.1 CR
DCA-DTW 1.41 SWA BWI-DTW 1:4 1.9 CR
TAFB 64:36 (64.5)
DAL 18:28 (18.5) x 210 = $3885
SWA 21.7 x 190 = $4123

You guys definitely have us beat on the rigs. We're making some progress on that, but have some work left to do. It is worth mentioning that the DAL guy in bold is actually getting 4467.75 for that trip with retirement contributions. Obviously, you have already identified that as a SWA weak area.

 

[Roomwithaview]

You guys definitely have us beat on the rigs. We're making some progress on that, but have some work left to do. It is worth mentioning that the DAL guy in bold is actually getting 4467.75 for that trip with retirement contributions. Obviously, you have already identified that as a SWA weak area.

Good to know. And, if that SWA guy were me he'd be making 401K contributions as well, reducing it by however much he chose, say 20%, shave $825 off that, now we're looking at $3298. Add the 9.3% company match if you so desire. $323 = $3621.

 

[Roomwithaview]

This highlights what I've been trying to point out to SWA guys for years and is now getting even more disparate as ancillary costs go up, up, up and OAL pilots are coming back in line with where they should have been. We're getting nickel and dime(d) to death with:

Pilot retirement contributions
Drastically increasing MED/DENT premiums rife with drastically increased OOP expenses for services and prescription drugs.
STILL NO Free Parking
STILL NO uniform allowance
Pilot funded MEDICAL for LTD and Special circumstances VEBA/PMA

All this $hit way adds up.

 

[nwaf16dude]

This highlights what I've been trying to point out to SWA guys for years and is now getting even more disparate as ancillary costs go up, up, up and OAL pilots are coming back in line with where they should have been. We're getting nickel and dime(d) to death with:

Pilot retirement contributions
Drastically increasing MED/DENT premiums rife with drastically increased OOP expenses for services and prescription drugs.
STILL NO Free Parking
STILL NO uniform allowance
Pilot funded MEDICAL for LTD and Special circumstances VEBA/PMA

All this $hit way adds up.

We are pretty much in the same boat on most of these points, however, I'm not very smart on our disability program. I know that it is partially funded by the pilots through the delta pilots mutual aid program, and partially funded by the company. I'm told it's a good plan, but I haven't dug into the details enough to comment intelligently.

 

[Roomwithaview]

We are pretty much in the same boat on most of these points, however, I'm not very smart on our disability program. I know that it is partially funded by the pilots through the delta pilots mutual aid program, and partially funded by the company. I'm told it's a good plan, but I haven't dug into the details enough to comment intelligently.

And here's the rest of the ugliness.

Deductions
VEBA $15
LTD $150
MED/DENT $315
401K $3442
Parking $40
PMA (pilot mutual aid voluntary) $32
Union Dues $172

$4166

I'm not a tourney player and that is what I would consider for me a decent month.

$17300 in Gross Pay
$518 in per diem

$17818
-$4166

$13652

adding FED TX,ST TX, SS and MED

-$4179

Taking home around $9473

Pretty sad.

 

[SpauldingSmails]

DAL Disability

We are pretty much in the same boat on most of these points, however, I'm not very smart on our disability program. I know that it is partially funded by the pilots through the delta pilots mutual aid program, and partially funded by the company. I'm told it's a good plan, but I haven't dug into the details enough to comment intelligently.

The company provided disability plan provides 50% of your pay from your best year within the past 5 years. The payout continues until retirement age, death, or your return from disability. There is no deduction for this coverage.

The Delta Pilots Mutual Aid program (DPMA) is a pilot funded program but more or less a short term disability supplement. DPMA was started years and years ago by the Chicago and Southern guys because they had no sick bank back there, this was like their way of passing around the hat. It will provide the "make-up" to 90% of a typical pilot's monthly pay in your category. Over your life as a pilot at DAL it provides up to two years (in days) of this pay total, or one continuous year. (i.e. if you're out on disability long term it'll only cover the first year I believe, but if you return and subsequently go back out you still have another year.) The neat thing about DPMA is that you can tap into it even if you're just out of sick time. Say, you burned your sick time - and now you have to go in for a minor surgery and you're out for a few weeks; you can tap into your DPMA to make up the difference. The rate you pay varies based on your estimated gross - I think it's $6/month per thousand dollars gross, but I wouldn't bet the farm on that number.

 

[nwaf16dude]

And here's the rest of the ugliness.

Deductions
VEBA $15
LTD $150
MED/DENT $315
401K $3442
Parking $40
PMA (pilot mutual aid voluntary) $32
Union Dues $172

$4166

I'm not a tourney player and that is what I would consider for me a decent month.

$17300 in Gross Pay
$518 in per diem

$17818
-$4166

$13652

adding FED TX,ST TX, SS and MED

-$4179

Taking home around $9473

Pretty sad.

How many days/TFP and/or block hours is that for?

 

[Roomwithaview]

How many days/TFP and/or block hours is that for?

13 Day month
91 TFP