Delta pilots-accuracy in reporting re:your contract

[nwaf16dude]

On the poon there are two camps and it would help those of us that are interested in accuracy if you could chime in. Thanks





Then this:

DAL 65 x (263 + 8 + 6.50) = $18,037.50 per month

I don't know what the 8 in this equation is. 65 is the minimum line value (which almost everybody beats--min reserve is 72, average reserve for the year is 75.5), 263 is the 747/777 captain rate, and 6.50 is the international override, but the 8 is a mystery to me. Anyone?

If I was going to publish a "normal" monthly gross for a 777/747 Capt, I'd use 75.5 x (263+6.50)=20347.25

 

[Roomwithaview]

Thank you!

If I was going to publish a "normal" monthly gross for a 777/747 Capt, I'd use 75.5 x (263+6.50)=20347.25

That's what I'm looking for brother. So that's prior to any pullout whatsoever.

Next question.

Hire date for the JUNIOR 777/747 Cappy.

Thanks for stayin' with me.

RMWAV

 

[General Lee]

DAL 65 x (263 + 8 + 6.50) = $18,037.50 per month

I don't know what the 8 in this equation is. 65 is the minimum line value (which almost everybody beats--min reserve is 72, average reserve for the year is 75.5), 263 is the 747/777 captain rate, and 6.50 is the international override, but the 8 is a mystery to me. Anyone?

If I was going to publish a "normal" monthly gross for a 777/747 Capt, I'd use 75.5 x (263+6.50)=20347.25

You also could add $700 a month for per diem at $2.60 an hour. Those 744 pilots mostly fly 12 day trips (that could translate to 30 straight days off afterward if bid correctly). The 777 pilots usually fly 3-4 day trips (DTW to Asia and back or ATL to DXB or Joberg) or 6-8 day trips (to Asia with turns to SIN from NRT).

I don't know what that "8" is in your equation. You do the hourly plus INTL override ($6.50 per hour for Capt, $4.50 for FO) and then add higher per diem (an extra 50 cents an hour).


The biggest difference between DL and SWA is variety. Airplane types, types of flying (dom vs Intl), and trip lengths (1 day turns all the way to 12 or 13 day trips and everything in between). You can bid and try them all, or stick with one and get senior. Variety or choice is good.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[nwaf16dude]

That's what I'm looking for brother. So that's prior to any pullout whatsoever.

Next question.

Hire date for the JUNIOR 777/747 Cappy.

Thanks for stayin' with me.

RMWAV

Junior 777 Capt is from Jan 88, 747 April 85. It's a little skewed by the fences left over from the merger.

Also, important to remember that the 20,347.25 does not include company retirement contributions, so that same captain's total compensation (no per diem included) is actually 20,347.25 x 1.15=23399.33, and he doesn't have to contribute a penny to get that 15%.

The 75.5 hour number is pretty darn conservative. DALPA claims that the average Delta guy is getting paid for 87 hours a month when you factor in vacation and training. If you had asked me last year I would have told you that I thought that number was high, but this year I have easily averaged greater than 90 per month, and have broken 100 a few months. Senior guys that know what they are doing can easily credit way over 100 with our premium pay rules. There's an A330 captain over on APC who claims to be getting paid 217 this month, which is just north of $53,000.

 

[General Lee]

And we all know profit sharing is not guaranteed, but thanks to Consolidation and bag fees, it's becoming more probable. Last year the profit sharing % was 8.25% of the individual's W2 (paid Feb 14th of this year). $20,347.25 per month (a low month on average for the 744 Capt) would mean a 12 month total of $244,167. If you add 8.25% profit sharing to that you'd get an extra $20,143, meaning the new total would be $264,310. (Paid out for this year). But, the current year has also equalled last years total in the profit sharing "pie", with two additional quarters to go. Rumor has it the profit sharing check could equal 15-16% of this year's W2, and if he/she made $244,167 this year, the profit sharing check would equal $36,625 (15%). So, fly the same hours next year and add the 3% raise due Jan 1st, you'd get $251,492 plus the profit sharing on Feb 14th, and those guys would make $288,117, flying a lower than average month. (77 hours on a 12 day 744 trip, then 30 days off until the next 12 day trip at the end of the next month). Not bad..... Beats 5 legs a day to Lubbock.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Roomwithaview]

And we all know profit sharing is not guaranteed, but thanks to Consolidation and bag fees, it's becoming more probable. Last year the profit sharing % was 8.25% of the individual's W2 (paid Feb 14th of this year). $20,347.25 per month (a low month on average for the 744 Capt) would mean a 12 month total of $244,167. If you add 8.25% profit sharing to that you'd get an extra $20,143, meaning the new total would be $264,310. (Paid out for this year). But, the current year has also equalled last years total in the profit sharing "pie", with two additional quarters to go. Rumor has it the profit sharing check could equal 15-16% of this year's W2, and if he/she made $244,167 this year, the profit sharing check would equal $36,625 (15%). So, fly the same hours next year and add the 3% raise due Jan 1st, you'd get $251,492 plus the profit sharing on Feb 14th, and those guys would make $288,117, flying a lower than average month. (77 hours on a 12 day 744 trip, then 30 days off until the next 12 day trip at the end of the next month). Not bad..... Beats 5 legs a day to Lubbock.



Bye Bye---General Lee

I don't want get into a d*ck measuring contest regarding the iron. We obviously don't have any other options than the 737. That being said, since I got here we re doing more 2 leg a day Scheds with coast to coast stuff being the primary focus. That's in my wheelhouse.

We're obviously falling well short in our total compensation and what the brain trust at swapa can't seem to get is the time to make hay is while the suns shining.

All the VEEPS, Kelly and his cronies are getting their money while we continue to fall woefully behind.

Thanks to all for posting!

 

[StopNTSing]

How many total 777 and 744 CA's are there at DL now?

 

[nwaf16dude]

476...............

 

[redflyer65]

Swa money is in the work rules. I am still trying to understand it as well. We had a 8 year SWA on the jumpseat who averages 16k a month with 16-17 off.

Bingo. The work rules can be very lucrative if you know what you are doing. Are we behind in retirement? Sure, and hopefully that will improve with this contract. The overall work rules are great.

I can typically average 130tfp that equates to north of 190k and I'm not half way up the payscale yet. The rigs are big here at SW. A 3 day pays 19.5 minimum, with some paying as high as 26. A 4 day is min 26.5. So the bottom line is you get paid very well for your time while you're at work. I think Delta has some 4 days that pay just over 20. Very inefficient in the end for your time away from your family and home.

 

[General Lee]

Bingo. The work rules can be very lucrative if you know what you are doing. Are we behind in retirement? Sure, and hopefully that will improve with this contract. The overall work rules are great.

I can typically average 130tfp that equates to north of 190k and I'm not half way up the payscale yet. The rigs are big here at SW. A 3 day pays 19.5 minimum, with some paying as high as 26. A 4 day is min 26.5. So the bottom line is you get paid very well for your time while you're at work. I think Delta has some 4 days that pay just over 20. Very inefficient in the end for your time away from your family and home.

And the six day Asia trip worth 40 hours? Is that inefficient? Delta has all types of trips, on different types of planes, all over the planet. How about doing a 12 day trip to Asia and then having 35 days off at home with your family until you do your next 12 day at the end of the next month? Enough time with the family, Red?? How about being home every night and doing Caribbean turns from ATL? How about trying a different fleet if you don't like the one you're on, and you are bored? He just doesn't understand.

Red prefers Amarillo where he thinks he is a "heavy." He has zero credibility and is incredibly jealous of legacy variety and choice, not to mention huge retirement numbers vs his certain stagnation at his airline.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[SWA Bubba]

And the six day Asia trip worth 40 hours? Is that inefficient? Delta has all types of trips, on different types of planes, all over the planet. How about doing a 12 day trip to Asia and then having 35 days off at home with your family until you do your next 12 day at the end of the next month? Enough time with the family, Red?? How about being home every night and doing Caribbean turns from ATL? How about trying a different fleet if you don't like the one you're on, and you are bored? He just doesn't understand.

Red prefers Amarillo where he thinks he is a "heavy." He has zero credibility and is incredibly jealous of legacy variety and choice, not to mention huge retirement numbers vs his certain stagnation at his airline.



Bye Bye---General Lee

Do you ever actually address the question at hand, Gen'l? Because it sure doesn't seem like it. No matter what anyone says, you respond with Delta's "variety" of aircraft choices and flying to Amarillo (or LBB). As usual, that wasn't what anyone was talking about except,... uh... you.

They were talking about money, and how Southwest's work rules (rigs) protect the pilots' pay at a higher total rate. That was pretty much it. Nobody was talking about, and nobody in the discussion cares, if you can hopscotch between types of aircraft every year or two. Big freakin' deal.

Tell you what General, if you really want to be in this conversation--how about talking about the actual subject? Okay? So exactly how many Delta pilots can actually hold the choice lines you crow about above? A small percentage of senior international guys? And tell us, General: What does the junior guy get? What's the absolute least a poor junior guy can get working at Mother D? That was the whole discussion. Every Southwest guy gets a minimum of 6.5 per workday the company creates. Even the last guy on property. And it's usually more than that--and often much more--because those are inefficient for the company as well.

When people discuss being "tired" of flying only one type of plane, then your argument would be appropriate. Then you can tell us about getting to go back to the training center all the damn time. Then you can tell us about changing plane types so you can fly to something other than six or seven different cities. But until that discussion comes up, you might try to think of some new material.

Bubba

 

[Ty Webb]

. . . I think Delta has some 4 days that pay just over 20. Very inefficient in the end for your time away from your family and home.

Not necessarily. It depends if you are a commuter or not, and whatt he trips consist of.

I would rather work a commutable 4 day that paid 22 instead of a noncommutable 3 day that pays 20.

You leave the house at the same time, get home at the same time, but there are no commuting hotels to pay for, plus you return home better rested, and with the extra per diem.

Just something else to think about.

TW

 

[General Lee]

Do you ever actually address the question at hand, Gen'l? Because it sure doesn't seem like it. No matter what anyone says, you respond with Delta's "variety" of aircraft choices and flying to Amarillo (or LBB). As usual, that wasn't what anyone was talking about except,... uh... you.

They were talking about money, and how Southwest's work rules (rigs) protect the pilots' pay at a higher total rate. That was pretty much it. Nobody was talking about, and nobody in the discussion cares, if you can hopscotch between types of aircraft every year or two. Big freakin' deal.

Tell you what General, if you really want to be in this conversation--how about talking about the actual subject? Okay? So exactly how many Delta pilots can actually hold the choice lines you crow about above? A small percentage of senior international guys? And tell us, General: What does the junior guy get? What's the absolute least a poor junior guy can get working at Mother D? That was the whole discussion. Every Southwest guy gets a minimum of 6.5 per workday the company creates. Even the last guy on property. And it's usually more than that--and often much more--because those are inefficient for the company as well.

When people discuss being "tired" of flying only one type of plane, then your argument would be appropriate. Then you can tell us about getting to go back to the training center all the damn time. Then you can tell us about changing plane types so you can fly to something other than six or seven different cities. But until that discussion comes up, you might try to think of some new material.

Bubba

With 5000 guys leaving in the next 10 years Bubba, a lot of guys will hold great schedules, on multiple fleets. That is a huge difference that many of you guys can't see, and don't want others to see. And most people don't want to fly one type of plane forever, they just don't. If you got 787s out of nowhere, would you just stay on the 737? Of course you wouldn't.

I don't need new material, you guys just need to acknowledge the huge differences between your airline and the 3 legacies. 15,000 job openings between them means unbelievable upward movement and opportunities. That won't happen at some LCCs, unfortunately.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[SWA Bubba]

With 5000 guys leaving in the next 10 years Bubba, a lot of guys will hold great schedules, on multiple fleets. That is a huge difference that many of you guys can't see, and don't want others to see. And most people don't want to fly one type of plane forever, they just don't. If you got 787s out of nowhere, would you just stay on the 737? Of course you wouldn't.

I don't need new material, you guys just need to acknowledge the huge differences between your airline and the 3 legacies. 15,000 job openings between them means unbelievable upward movement and opportunities. That won't happen at some LCCs, unfortunately.


Bye Bye---General Lee

You know, I just knew you wouldn't actually answer the question, no matter what.... again, as I figured you just go back to your normal shtick and talk about how great Delta is, regardless of the fact that what you're talking about has nothing to do with the discussion. Even when your irrelevance is pointed out to you. You're so predictable.

Well, at least you didn't disappoint me--as usual, your response has jack-all-sh!t to do with what people were talking about. Nothing new there.

Bubba

 

[redflyer65]

Is that the guy from St George? Haha. I really hope he ACTUALLY get's hired at Delta. Fingers crossed Genny! Talk about a credibility problem. This guy has no credibility. As in zero.

Bubba,

He never has been able to hold a actual discussion about the topic at hand, so don't feel bad. Two facts, Delta has horrible rigs that didn't get fixed last time around and I'll go to LBB all day long if our company is making money on it. Hell, I'm there man. I don't even have any desire to go to the Caribbean or Mexico. Put me down for AMA and LBB.

The sad thing is, Delta can't make any money going to those towns and Genny thinks it's funny that we do. Shows what a psychopath he really is. Well, that and a zillion stupid post about an airline he wishes he worked for. Unfortunately it makes the real Delta guys look bad.