Delta pilots-accuracy in reporting re:your contract

[redflyer65]

Apparently AirTran was the bomb gentlemen.

Bad pay, check.

RJ codeshare, check.

Airport reserve, check.

Hostile management, check.

Bad retirement, check.
You see when you have crap wages a higher retirement percentage doesn't even make up the difference.

No Profit Sharing, check.

Paid parking....oh yeah! NOW that's one hell of a benefit.

 

[taxicabdriver]

Ground times for Delta pilots, as I've been told from my Delta buds, are to ensure schedule preserverence. The weather can be somewhat challenging several months a year. This does need to change. However, I do agree the min pay per day needs to greatly improve. Any United bubbas have similar credit trips? Just for the sake of the hopeful newbs researching?

Min 5 hrs/day pay or tafb/3.5 are the trip rigs at ual and they usually build trips around that so they don't have to pay much soft time.

 

[HowardBorden]

That will be fixed due to several factors. Huge retirements, sustained profitability, consolidation, and new FARs dealing with work and fatigue rules.

Oh how quickly we forget!

There is only one US airline that has achieved sustained profitability. Maybe you can guess which one it is.

 

[Roomwithaview]

I'm still interested in trying to get an apples to apples as much as that is possible. Instead of using social media to beat each other to death with who has the biggest Johnson, how bout we stick to the facts. At least on this thread.

So, DAL, let's call it, min 4 day, blocks 21.4 x $210 = $4494
SWA min 4 day 26 x 189 = $4914

Beyond that is the bennies and deductions. Not a whole lot of bennies on the SWA side. PS?? is all I can come up with and that's after Kelly and the boys monkeyf$ck the numbers to meet their desires.

Deductions:
Self funded 401K
Union dues
VEBA
PMA
LTD
Parking
Uniforms

It all adds up. I max out my 401k and with FICA, state and local tax, SSDI that 15k is a shell of itself.

 

[redflyer65]

The funny thing is Bubba that Red started this by showing his ignorance yet again about DL trips, stating DL pilots had inefficient 4 days, and seemed to infer that that was the "norm", totally disregarding the multitude of other type trips DL offers. He started it, and I ended it.




Bye Bye---General Lee

Haha. Not really doosh, I provided factual data and you turned and ran. Typical of you when you are flat out wrong. Just ignore the facts and let the thread die, that's your MO.

Genny you need me to pull another 20 inefficient trips for you? Just let me know I'd be glad to help.

 

[PCL_128]

One man's "inefficient trip" is another man's relaxing day at work. You couldn't pay me enough to do those "efficient trips" that you love so much.

 

[pave driver]

I'm still interested in trying to get an apples to apples as much as that is possible. Instead of using social media to beat each other to death with who has the biggest Johnson, how bout we stick to the facts. At least on this thread.

So, DAL, let's call it, min 4 day, blocks 21.4 x $210 = $4494
SWA min 4 day 26 x 189 = $4914

Beyond that is the bennies and deductions. Not a whole lot of bennies on the SWA side. PS?? is all I can come up with and that's after Kelly and the boys monkeyf$ck the numbers to meet their desires.

Deductions:
Self funded 401K
Union dues
VEBA
PMA
LTD
Parking
Uniforms

It all adds up. I max out my 401k and with FICA, state and local tax, SSDI that 15k is a shell of itself.

I respectfully understand your desire to align all the numbers and make a neat spreadsheet however the crux of the matter is that it will never be an apples to apples comparison. I am also type A but as I age I quickly realize some quests such as this is nearly impossible.

I believe a lot of pilots point out the exception and not the rule comparing QOL and pay. We are no where near compensated as we should for our profession. Gloating, sensationalizing, exaggerating does not help our fellow pilots and it is counter productive to contract improvements. How long will you be a wide body Captain? Some one quoted 200 credit hours in a single month, for example, although only feasible 1% of the time. If this is the case, credit caps should be in place to increase staffing and help new pilots come on board and increase seniority for those already there.

There are countless differences between flying for a legacy vs an LCC. I would never compare a Merc to a Chevy. Sure they both get from A to B but they are just vastly different. I used to own a Jeep and loved to off-road in the Sierra Nevada. I just have changed as I age and now love my Merc. There is certainly a lot of nice driving Chevys but they can't compare. Nor can you compare most things tangible and intangible unique to different style carriers.

As we climb the seniority latter rapidly at the big 3, other things become increasingly important to most. With tremendous variety one is not stuck. Some like their old pair of jeans and that works for them! Some favor smaller family feel airlines and a few close friends. By the way, you can achieve a similar feel with small base/equipment if desired at the big 3. Most overlook this when job searching, pondering and comparing. However, larger carriers are more appealing to most when one projects their career in it's entirety. Some are happy to never fly a 73 the rest of their career. Many leg days are not for some. Some domestic 4 day trips the older folks love have 4 legs! 3 day 5-6 leg trips commutable each side is my current favorite color. I was bulletproof in my 20s and now not so much. As I get older I no longer desire 4 day trips (regardless of credit) nor short flights and many leg trips. Do you want just large cities and sometimes desire just press a few buttons for a nice quality delivered meal? Are foreign large cities desirable? Yes they are! Does your contract have high hotel standards? These things become increasingly important to most.

Can the following be quantified via a spreadsheet? I take my family on an average of 4 vacations per year around the world. Yes I certainly do! I feel it's vital to a child's upbringing. If one chooses to fly for Southwest, these trips would not be financially feasible year after year for most young pilots' families. The flights would literally cost 10s of thousands per year - priorities and opportunities. Do you have vacation passes? 95% of the time the flights can be made with well thought out planning and timing. For example, we took the kids out of school to "study" Geology in another country and they returned with a detailed Geology report as required by the school. We often leave before the last two days of a school break. What cost would you put on this (although continually declining) benefit? Time and education with family is priceless for most.

Pay for the big 3 will most definitely be the highest paying careers a pilot can choose, many varying factors applied, however everyone has a unique life and chooses accordingly. Of all I've read regarding choosing a company or career that makes one happy, none have ever said, "choose the highest paying company in your field." Too many things change down the road. The most important assessment of one's career was well said by Stephan R. Covey, "If the ladder is not leaning against the right wall, every step we take just gets us to the wrong place faster."

Nitty gritty very rough guesstimate of yearly big 3 pay in thousands current complete compensation= FOs avg. = $158k CAs average = $242k Upgrade time to narrowbody will near 6 years in certain. These numbers are not even remotely close to what they should be for our profession but will definitely improve in the very near future at the big 3. Sincerely, good luck to all!

 

[redflyer65]

One man's "inefficient trip" is another man's relaxing day at work. You couldn't pay me enough to do those "efficient trips" that you love so much.

Just to prove my point PCL, here's the other side of that coin at SW...


Day One: LAS-BWI-MHT (50 min ground time in BWI)
Day Two: MHT-MDW-BHM (1 hour of ground time in MDW)
Day Three: BHM-LAS (report at 915am Central)

Done in Vegas at 1130am local. By the pool drinking by 1pm.

Pay?

19.5 (block of 14, total of 5 legs)

That's ONE tough trip! Are there four leg days in the system? Absolutely, and those are going to pay 22-25 for your time on the road.

 

[General Lee]

Haha. Not really doosh, I provided factual data and you turned and ran. Typical of you when you are flat out wrong. Just ignore the facts and let the thread die, that's your MO.

Genny you need me to pull another 20 inefficient trips for you? Just let me know I'd be glad to help.

Ahahahaha! I thought you had my responses on ignore? You're the doosh! Just like you say not all of your trips are 5 legs to LBB, only good ones, right? Only 2 legs a day for you, no multiple leg days? Hilarious. Face it Red, both airlines have some bad trips, which probably go to junior pilots. But with 5000 pilots leaving one of the two airlines, your chances of remaining junior longer are better at your airline. You lose again Red. Better opportunities are available now at the 3 legacies. Tell me that isn't "factual."



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Just to prove my point PCL, here's the other side of that coin at SW...


Day One: LAS-BWI-MHT (50 min ground time in BWI)
Day Two: MHT-MDW-BHM (1 hour of ground time in MDW)
Day Three: BHM-LAS (report at 915am Central)

Done in Vegas at 1130am local. By the pool drinking by 1pm.

Pay?

19.5 (block of 14, total of 5 legs)

That's ONE tough trip! Are there four leg days in the system? Absolutely, and those are going to pay 22-25 for your time on the road.

How about one leg from ATL to Dusseldorf, with a 3 hour nap in a first class seat enroute and a nice meal? Take a nap when you land, wake up and have a great dinner with the crew, then the next day fly back to ATL with another 3 hour nap enroute and back in ATL around 115pm? You get almost 19 hours of pay, higher pre diem and an INTL override, 2 naps enroute, a great meal with the crew, and fewer legs to fly.

Better Red? Yeah. Huge retirements over the next 10 years allows more people to fly those types of trips, and that is just on the ER fleet, not the 330, 765, 744, 777, etc. All have their good and bad trips. Variety though is good, and the choice to try them all if wanted is there. Or, you can go back to domestic..



Bye Bye---General Lee