Delta parking 10 75s. 717 delivery "fluid"

[Dash Power]

No, DL knows exactly how many 757s will leave. Most of the 757s without winglets will leave (they didn't invest in winglets, obviously). I just stated I had heard initially that 14 would leave within the first year (June to June), and now it is supposedly 10. That's good.

Dash, you are making no sense. Most of the 757s, 320s, and domestic 763s that are leaving are because they are OLD, and have high cycles. Just like your 733 and 735s, they will leave your fleet sooner than later. The leaving 757s, A320s, and Dom 763s are being replaced ONE FOR ONE with new 739ERs. Then, add 14 MD90s and 88 717s. When you talk about outsourcing, less outsourcing is a result of the contract. Over 140 total RJs will be gone after everything is done. 140 fewer RJs. Say that aloud. Alaska code share was also tightened, and the percentage of domestic flying for mainline vs DCI also was increased in DL pilots favor. You are wrong. Were there some things that could have been better? Sure. But outsourcing to DCI got worse for DCI, by a lot.



Bye Bye---General Lee

No. You will see.

You just voted in a total restructure of fleet utilization. Next year Delta will have maybe two thirds of the 75 fleet. The year after that, less. Overall less total airframes.

And we all thought the 1997 AA contract was bad with outsourcing. You guys screwed the pooch for everyone. Ask a Continental pilot about scope and the Delta contract. Thank you for getting up to our salary levels but shame on you for outsourcing pilot jobs.

The good news is that Delta is now an oil refining company with an airline subsidiary.

Good luck to us all.

 

[JohnQ]

What about "757s are getting old and are leaving" don't you understand? The bottom line is that many of our oldest 757s from both premerger NW and DL, were built in the early 1980s. They are coming up on hugely costly heavy maintenance checks and are already nearing the end of their aircraft lifecycle--just like GL said also applies to your older 733s and 735s. After all, do you still fly 737-200s? Was it a "SWAPA sales job" when your company parked them, or was it the natural order of things in this industry?

Also, Boeing stated in 2004 that they would stop building the 757. Many of us wish that decision had never been made, but DAL is not the aircraft manufacturer, so we have to replace the 757s with 739s or perhaps A321s.

I actually remember reading 15 years ago on our internal DALPA forum a guy whining that DAL buying 737-800s "was concessionary" because it replaced three-man 727s with two-man 737s, and how DALPA had "sold out again."

Are you kidding me? There are plenty of reasons to fault DALPA over the years, but that was not one of them.

 

[redflyer65]

You do know we are outfitting some of the 'old 300's' with new interiors right? And mostly those that already have winglets installed. These planes have been paid off 15 years ago, so they actually make SW quite a bit of cash.

Similar to NW flying the DC-9s around for so long. For the most part, they were paid off.

Sorry for the thread creep....back to Delta losing planes and outsourcing more.

 

[JohnQ]

Hey you are probably right. We are also retaining some of our newer (relatively speaking) 757s for years to come; most will be fitted with lie-flat seats to fly JFK-LAX transcons and the like.

All good things eventually come to an end. The 757 really is a great plane.

SWA is a great airline and DAL is too. I have no desire to join in on any airline bash fest. I think there is plenty of $$ to be made by both companies, and therefore lots of $$ to be disbursed to the pilots of both places as well.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

It will cost more than stickers, the grievance was for a SWA sticker on an AT jet, that violated our codeshare agreement. The 717 jets will all need to be in full SWA livery or they violate the codeshare agreement post 2015. There can be no AT remaining post 2015, so they can't just sticker them and call it good. Like redflyer said, they will park them rather than spend money.

Every article I can find about it says that the grievance was that the sticker made it an SWA aircraft and those aircraft must be flown by SWAPA pilots.

As far as the statement that SWAPA was GUARANTEED all AT captain positions, I will have to take your word on that because we never saw any of those super secret side agreements. That is what the DRC claim is all about.

The problem I see is this. If there are 30 some planes parked in 2015 that will cost the company around $5-10 million a month in just lease payments and such not to mention pilots sitting on their buts making guarantee. I think the company has already made a secret handshake with the arbitrator to come up with an agreement to solve all this. But that is just my jaded view of the whole arbitration process.

We will see. It won't affect me much either way unless there are furloughs but parking all those 717's would cost a LOT of money. Money SW is going to wave in your face during contract negotiations. Rumors I have been hearing is that SW is already starting to admit that there will be a lot of 717's on property at 2015.

 

[humveedriver]

You do know we are outfitting some of the 'old 300's' with new interiors right? And mostly those that already have winglets installed. These planes have been paid off 15 years ago, so they actually make SW quite a bit of cash.

Similar to NW flying the DC-9s around for so long. For the most part, they were paid off.

Sorry for the thread creep....back to Delta losing planes and outsourcing more.

It's one of those looks good on paper decisions. The 300 now holds 143 warm bodies, and I do mean warm. The overhead space doesn't allow for roller bags to go in wheels first, and now there are potentially 6 more bags to fit. Ground air mostly ineffective, APU authorized full time on the ground. I just hate seeing customer service being sacrificed at a company that leads the way in customer service. No wifi on the classics either. They are paid for and keeping us employed as the 717 leaves.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

Whatever remaining 717s that haven't been converted on Jan. 2015 are going to be parked.

No sticker and no additional training. It's gone.

Will GK park 30 (27 actually because 3 will be in transition Jan. 1 2015 if everything goes on schedule) airplanes? We shall see, interesting times for sure.

 

[flyboyike]

That means either hiring or downgrading...So far, it's the latter, but eventually hiring will happen, and maybe those 330s will come and people will move UP.... That, with retirements, will be good for everyone.

I believe, General, this is the first time I've actually seen you be less than absolutely certain and positive on the subject of massive future hiring. Guess it's starting to sink in.

 

[EL10]

So let me get this straight the in sourcing of the 100 seat aircraft was a bad thing now? It is also a bad thing that the company is working on a fleet renewal plan?

I can not believe it when I hear complaints about the short legs and multi leg days, yet then complain about the RJs. Everyone wants scope but no one wants to do the work.

As GL stated the JV look back happens down the road. To say DL should have more segments today is not correct. You are taking a snapshot and not the metric that will used come May.

 

[Noserider76]

What about "757s are getting old and are leaving" don't you understand? The bottom line is that many of our oldest 757s from both premerger NW and DL, were built in the early 1980s. They are coming up on hugely costly heavy maintenance checks and are already nearing the end of their aircraft lifecycle--just like GL said also applies to your older 733s and 735s. After all, do you still fly 737-200s? Was it a "SWAPA sales job" when your company parked them, or was it the natural order of things in this industry?

Also, Boeing stated in 2004 that they would stop building the 757. Many of us wish that decision had never been made, but DAL is not the aircraft manufacturer, so we have to replace the 757s with 739s or perhaps A321s.

I actually remember reading 15 years ago on our internal DALPA forum a guy whining that DAL buying 737-800s "was concessionary" because it replaced three-man 727s with two-man 737s, and how DALPA had "sold out again."

Are you kidding me? There are plenty of reasons to fault DALPA over the years, but that was not one of them.

Good post. The 757 is still the sweetest and prettiest machine out there but some are getting old. Can't believe Boeing made the decision to stop production during the worst downturn in US aviation history. Maybe if some airline wasn't so set on the retro version of the 737 it would be different. That overhead panel rolling off the line in 2013? You've got to be kidding.

Pilots don't make fleet decisions. In any case the -900s are much cheaper to operate, hold about the same as the 57s, come with the latest personal entertainment systems, and pay about the same. The 717s replace the -9s and we got SWA to pay the freight. Basically you're taking back some of the flying the RJs had been doing. The -90s were a super bargain and run the same engines as the 320s.

Overall the domestic fleet will be using smaller aircraft. However with the new -90s, 717s, -900s the number of airplanes on property will be higher which will be better for us (pay wise) in the long run. Guess we'll know for sure when we start seeing entitlements instead of displacements.

 

[General Lee]

I believe, General, this is the first time I've actually seen you be less than absolutely certain and positive on the subject of massive future hiring. Guess it's starting to sink in.

No, we all know there will be huge future hiring, at the big 3 anyway. It's just a matter of time. The exact date it will start may be "fluid", but it will happen.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[sniper]

Delta will resume hiring November 2013

757s and DC9s getting park will not change anything.

Stop all of this non sense

 

[flyboyike]

Delta will resume hiring November 2013

757s and DC9s getting park will not change anything.

You might want to let DL management know that, they seem unaware.

 

[sniper]

You might want to let DL management know that, they seem unaware.

they know that

 

[General Lee]

You might want to let DL management know that, they seem unaware.

The main deal this year is to get the overall debt down to $10 billion, which will save $500 million PER YEAR in interest payments. It was $18 billion a few years ago, so paying off $8 billion has been a major accomplishment, and shows how much revenue and profit potential DL has. There is no doubt DL will eventually need pilots, there are tons of age 65 retirements coming up, and not everyone will go to 65.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Metrojet]

You better believe it Data. We knew all along that DL was parking some 757s, and now we know 10 will be gone by next June. (I thought more would actually be gone by then). Also, Delta will still be getting all of the 717s, with a month or two getting 3 instead of 4, etc. They all are due to go through 2 months each of heavy maintenance (SWA paying for it, thanks), and this was all known. The 757s were going to get parked (100 739ERs will replace a combo of 757s, A320s, and some 767-300 doms), and the 717 are all scheduled to come within 3 years, still. DL initial ckeckairmen on the 717 have already done flight training in one of them, and the first 717 is being painted now in MIA.

Plenty of frustration out there by some junior folk on recent bids that have had some displacements instead of all entitlements, that many were expecting to happen by now. That is understandable. At the same time, the 7ER categories, which have had some displacements on each of the last couple and now next bid, has been overstaffed, and only Summertime flying has been busy for the bottom guys in category. I'm sure when the eventual positive ONLY bids come, some will bid back, and it would be nice to throw newhires into the 717s initially, but many know that very junior 7ER FOs didn't fly a lot over FALL and Winter due to capacity cuts. That capacity has to come back in full or huge retirements have to start to get many back. That may be early next year when that and hiring might start. Right now, that category seems fat, and those extra pilots are needed for the MD90s coming in and 717s later this year. Hopefully hiring after that.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Wow General

Your last paragraph sounds just like a Westie talking about why the Nic should have been implemented already!!!!

Are u sure your not former America West?

Happy 4th

Metrojet

 

[Jim]

Wow General! Metrojet just gave you a complement!

 

[flyboyike]

There is no doubt DL will eventually need pilots, there are tons of age 65 retirements coming up, and not everyone will go to 65.

This has (allegedly) been the case for a while now, and yet....

 

[General Lee]

This has (allegedly) been the case for a while now, and yet....

Things happen, (9-11, BK, mergers). But people also get old and retire. The big 3 will retire a bunch, sooner than later. Happy 4th!


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Wow General

Your last paragraph sounds just like a Westie talking about why the Nic should have been implemented already!!!!

Are u sure your not former America West?

Happy 4th

Metrojet

Nope, not Former AWA, but I know a bunch. I still think the Nic will be implemented, because that is the fair thing to do, since everyone agreed to the process beforehand. We'll see.....

Happy 4th to you too.


Bye Bye---General Lee