Delta parking 10 75s. 717 delivery "fluid"

[redflyer65]

Why would it cost huge dollars? SWAPA played right into.the.companies hand when they filed a grievance for a SWA sticker on an Airtran 737. Now the.company just has to put.a.sticker on those 717's and they are SWA airplanes. A one day indoc and BAM, a bunch of.SWAPA pilots are flying SWA airplanes!

Whatever remaining 717s that haven't been converted on Jan. 2015 are going to be parked.

No sticker and no additional training. It's gone.

 

[General Lee]

Remember, 757s were going to be parked, and initially I had heard 14 by next June. Parking 10 is actually better. The 739ERs are going to replace maybe 60 total older 757s with high cycles, and also some A320s and a few older domestic 763s. That's been known for awhile now. The "fluid" part for the 717s was the initial training bid. Originally it was for 145 FOs, but there were only 107 on the first bid. That may be due to lack of sims, inflight training now scheduled for September for the initial bunch, and maybe one or two 717s might be bumped from one month to the next, hence FLUID. They all are still coming to the fleet, and any new 76 seaters are tied to the 717s ARRIVING.

It does suck for the junior guys on big equipment getting bumped. Not fun. But, when categories are fat due to capacity cutbacks during slower periods (Fall and Winter), everyone knows something will happen to fix that. Eventually the displaced will have a chance at rebidding their previous plane, and when things do start to move due to eventual retirements, this will only be a bad memory hopefully. It happens. It even happens to senior guys, just ask the AT guys....


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[scoreboardII]

Why would it cost huge dollars? SWAPA played right into.the.companies hand when they filed a grievance for a SWA sticker on an Airtran 737. Now the.company just has to put.a.sticker on those 717's and they are SWA airplanes. A one day indoc and BAM, a bunch of.SWAPA pilots are flying SWA airplanes!

It will cost more than stickers, the grievance was for a SWA sticker on an AT jet, that violated our codeshare agreement. The 717 jets will all need to be in full SWA livery or they violate the codeshare agreement post 2015. There can be no AT remaining post 2015, so they can't just sticker them and call it good. Like redflyer said, they will park them rather than spend money.

 

[i fly boxes]

They are just delaying hiring because they are getting ready to staple the endeavor pilots

 

[KarmaPolice]

GL, honestly you're not thinking both that we got less than we should've out of this TA and our union hasnt worked as diligently as it should've to protect mainline jobs?? The 717 was sold as all growth. The 757 losses were supposed to go to the 737 900, md 90, and crj 900.

We're being shorted at least NINE daily trips to Europe, every day, as AF/KLM are flying our Pax! THAT is a major reason why we are fat on ER copilots. The company is outsourcing their jobs overseas. A union's primary mission should be to stop that at all costs.

Because it doesn't affect you at your seniority, it's acceptable? The union's snow job doesn't matter as much?

I get that a union can't keep a corporation from parking planes and outsourcing our jobs. But it ought to try and stop it, and if it can't, give us real information on what to expect from the company.

You know we were led to believe if we signed the TA, hiring was coming very soon to staff the 717, and now it looks like at least half the 717 seats initially will be displaced mainline pilots and not guys off the street. Hiring is unlikely now this year, and if we do hire it will be a lot later, and a much smaller number than TA yes voters would've expected based on info from the union.

 

[K-Mart]

717's are like herpes.

 

[General Lee]

717's are like herpes.

Herpes pays $195 per hour in the left seat? (2015 rates when all arrive at 12th year pay). Well, oh-Kay......


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Dash Power]

Remember, 757s were going to be parked, and initially I had heard 14 by next June. Parking 10 is actually better.

Parking fleet types are like furloughs. Once they start you never know when its going to stop. I guess its way more than 14. Maybe all of them. The real question is how many RJ's are going to replace them.

Worse contract move in the history of the business. Outsourcing is a cancer that can not be stopped.

 

[General Lee]

GL, honestly you're not thinking both that we got less than we should've out of this TA and our union hasnt worked as diligently as it should've to protect mainline jobs?? The 717 was sold as all growth. The 757 losses were supposed to go to the 737 900, md 90, and crj 900.

We're being shorted at least NINE daily trips to Europe, every day, as AF/KLM are flying our Pax! THAT is a major reason why we are fat on ER copilots. The company is outsourcing their jobs overseas. A union's primary mission should be to stop that at all costs.

Because it doesn't affect you at your seniority, it's acceptable? The union's snow job doesn't matter as much?

I get that a union can't keep a corporation from parking planes and outsourcing our jobs. But it ought to try and stop it, and if it can't, give us real information on what to expect from the company.

You know we were led to believe if we signed the TA, hiring was coming very soon to staff the 717, and now it looks like at least half the 717 seats initially will be displaced mainline pilots and not guys off the street. Hiring is unlikely now this year, and if we do hire it will be a lot later, and a much smaller number than TA yes voters would've expected based on info from the union.

First of all, I never said I was happy or pleased with what has transpired. I think Dalpa was overly optimistic with what COULD happen with the contract. I understand what has happened, DL will get rid of over 200 50 seaters, even if oil goes down someday to $30 a barrel and 50 seaters could make money again. The 717s may or may not have come, but it is good they are. They will recapture plenty of routes that were given away to DCI over the last decade. I don't understand what you mean by 757 losses would go to 739, MD90, and CR9? The 757 losses will be covered one for one by 739s. Yes, they pay less, but some A320s will also be replaced by 739s, and they pay more.

Yes, I agree that we are short about 9 A330 flights a day with the AF/KL JV. That is frustrating. I think that does vary a bit by the time of the year, during the Summer DL adds BOS, PIT, PHL, to the mix, and permeantly added SEA and EWR to CDG daily. AF recently added an A340 to MSP for the Summer, and a few day per week 777 to MCO. Overall, DL is behind. But, according to the contract, the time to review it all is next May. That is the deal. Could DL add 15 flights a day to AMS and CDG by Xmas? Maybe, but probably not. Still, you have to go by the agreement. If they are not in compliance by next May, then they have to fix it within one year. I'd rather fix it now, but "a contract is a contract....."

I've heard DL is already behind the ball when it comes to hiring, and it may actually happen before the end of the year. 225 FAs will be hired, so I would think it might happen shortly there after. Remember more returning Military pilots came back than expected, and that may have had something to do with it. Was the union expecting that many returning military guys? Maybe not. We all want more people behind us, and fewer in front of us. Eventually both will happen simultaneously. That really will be fantastic.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Parking fleet types are like furloughs. Once they start you never know when its going to stop. I guess its way more than 14. Maybe all of them. The real question is how many RJ's are going to replace them.

Worse contract move in the history of the business. Outsourcing is a cancer that can not be stopped.

No, DL knows exactly how many 757s will leave. Most of the 757s without winglets will leave (they didn't invest in winglets, obviously). I just stated I had heard initially that 14 would leave within the first year (June to June), and now it is supposedly 10. That's good.

Dash, you are making no sense. Most of the 757s, 320s, and domestic 763s that are leaving are because they are OLD, and have high cycles. Just like your 733 and 735s, they will leave your fleet sooner than later. The leaving 757s, A320s, and Dom 763s are being replaced ONE FOR ONE with new 739ERs. Then, add 14 MD90s and 88 717s. When you talk about outsourcing, less outsourcing is a result of the contract. Over 140 total RJs will be gone after everything is done. 140 fewer RJs. Say that aloud. Alaska code share was also tightened, and the percentage of domestic flying for mainline vs DCI also was increased in DL pilots favor. You are wrong. Were there some things that could have been better? Sure. But outsourcing to DCI got worse for DCI, by a lot.



Bye Bye---General Lee