Delta/NWA Seniority List Negotiation Tidbits

[viper548]

All the new hires I've talked to DON'T want the merger to go through.

 

[Superpilot92]

Superpilot, you should take a few days off of the message board and get outside. You came in this industry with SJS and no understanding of how things work. Now you get on with NWA and act like you have been there for several years? Has it even been 24 hours yet? There are many new hires at NWA itching for the merger to go through so they can get a large pay increase and opportunity to fly something other than the DC-9 for the next several years.

I like how you capitalized the word VERY in your post. You truly must be a superpilot!!!

You have no idea what your talking about. Dont pretend to know me tool. SJS , nothing could be farther from the truth about me. I would fly a C-152 all my career if you pay me enough. You however fly an E170 for pretty much the same amount i flew a E145, and who has SJS? You have had a grudge against me or anyone from XJT for years for whatever reason and frankly its embarrassing. Thanks for following my career though buddy, thats cute.

Oh and i capitalized VERY because i have potentially 38 years left, is that a good enough reason to use "very" in my sentence? OH and You truly must be a generaltso!!!! Gasp, its a screenname

 

[Jiminmem]

I know of no newhire at NWA wanting this merger. Nothing against Delta, just bad enough to be at the bottom of a list with 5000 pilots, nevermind 12000.

 

[nwaredtail]

What? You mean not every pilot wants to be a Delta pilot? How could that be?

Didn't you know that NWA is parking DC-9's and the 747-200? The world is collapsing around NWA with the largest profit than any other legacy carrier, 4 billion in cash, highest margins, 787 orders, and many retirements coming up. Save us Delta, please. I'll even try to talk with a redneck twang if you rescue us with your new 777's. Please ignore the 32 330's we received over the last few years, those are an illusion.

The 30% raise over 4 years would make up all the difference when I stay stagnant for the next 10 years. What the hell was I thinking? That raise would never go away would it? 255 capped RJ's? Has Delta ever given away mainline flying before? That would never change would it?

I might even tell newhires to quit NWA in hopes of getting a Delta interview.

 

[Superpilot92]

Delta Disbands Outside Advisers on Northwest Merger, People Say

By Mary Jane Credeur and Mary Schlangenstein
March 1 (Bloomberg) -- Delta Air Lines Inc. disbanded the outside advisers hired to guide a merger with Northwest Airlines Corp. after the carriers' pilots couldn't agree on how to mesh seniority lists, people with knowledge of the matter said.
Delta told its dozens of external aides they won't be needed unless the pilots reach an accord, said the people, who asked not to be identified because the talks are private. The advisers had been on 24-hour call last week because the airlines thought a pilot agreement and completion of the merger were imminent, one of the people said.
Merger planners at the two carriers suspended daily phone meetings a week ago, after the pilots broke off seniority talks, the people said. A Delta-Northwest tie-up would form the world's largest airline, overtaking AMR Corp.'s American Airlines.
``There's an aura of doubt around this deal now, a creeping malaise,'' said Stuart Klaskin of KKC Aviation Consulting Inc. in Miami, who has worked on past airline mergers.
Delta must have a deal that protects pilots' seniority, Chief Financial Officer Ed Bastian said. ``If we can't get those assurances, we won't'' pursue a merger, he told reporters yesterday in Seattle.
Spokeswomen for Delta and Eagan, Minnesota-based Northwest declined to comment on the merger advisers. Delta pilots spokeswoman Kelly Regus declined to comment, and Matt Coons, a spokesman for the Northwest pilots' union, didn't return calls.
Delta, the third-biggest U.S. airline by traffic, and No. 5 Northwest have dropped more than 21 percent since Feb. 20 in New York trading on concern that a merger is in jeopardy. Delta fell 74 cents, or 5.3 percent, to $13.35 yesterday, while Northwest slid 57 cents, or 4.1 percent, to $13.43.
Pivotal Issue
Seniority is one of the pivotal merger issues left for the airlines, which have agreed that the combined carrier will keep the Delta name, be based at its Atlanta headquarters, and be run by Delta Chief Executive Officer Richard Anderson, people familiar with the discussions have said.
The disbanding of Delta's advisers may be part of a strategy to pressure pilots by suggesting a merger might not happen, said Roger King, a debt analyst at CreditSights Inc. in New York. Management has agreed to give the pilots a pay package and equity stake valued at $2 billion, people familiar with the matter said earlier this week.
`Biggest Bluff'
``The biggest bluff to call is to go ahead and do a definitive merger and deal with the seniority list later,'' King said. ``Walking away and taking the money off the table is the next best thing.''
Seniority determines job provisions ranging from compensation to the planes pilots fly. Hundreds of Delta pilots took early retirement before the carrier's 2005 bankruptcy filing to get lump-sum pension payouts, leaving Delta with a less-senior pilot workforce.
Leaders of Northwest's chapter of the Air Line Pilots Association ended a two-day meeting on Feb. 22 without voting on a report on ``cooperative merger exploration,'' according to the union's Web site. No new talks have been scheduled, four people familiar with the matter said earlier this week.
Northwest union negotiators want their 5,000 pilots' seniority to be based on hire date, while Delta's ALPA chiefs want consideration of the plane sizes and routes now flown by that airline's 7,000 pilots. ALPA is the only major unionized group at Delta.

 

[Noserider76]

I know of no newhire at NWA wanting this merger. Nothing against Delta, just bad enough to be at the bottom of a list with 5000 pilots, nevermind 12000.

Good. It looks like we'll all get to vote on it (not sure about probabtionary pilots). Vote no if you don't like it! I know I will.

 

[slapstick]

Give it a rest with this SJS crap. Most people who use the term are old, ornery, and burnt out. For the 5% of young aspiring pilots this "syndrome" applies to, just call 'em what they really are: wh0res.

 

[viper548]

How can you accuse someone of having SJS when they're on the DC-9?

 

[Redmeat]

What? You mean not every pilot wants to be a Delta pilot? How could that be?

Didn't you know that NWA is parking DC-9's and the 747-200? The world is collapsing around NWA with the largest profit than any other legacy carrier, 4 billion in cash, highest margins, 787 orders, and many retirements coming up. Save us Delta, please. I'll even try to talk with a redneck twang if you rescue us with your new 777's. Please ignore the 32 330's we received over the last few years, those are an illusion.

The 30% raise over 4 years would make up all the difference when I stay stagnant for the next 10 years. What the hell was I thinking? That raise would never go away would it? 255 capped RJ's? Has Delta ever given away mainline flying before? That would never change would it?

I might even tell newhires to quit NWA in hopes of getting a Delta interview.

With the price of oil continually rising to record levels and an impending strong recession (which could come abruptly, not gradually like a weak recession), all that could disappear in a heartbeat in the airline industry.

With specific regard to the record profits...guess where a lot of that came from?...labor's A$$ (thanks McLain and Co...nice road shows by the way, you guys should've taken that act to Hollywood).

When the sh1t starts hitting the fan here again in the near future, guess where management will go to "save the airline"?...

...Once again...labor's A$$.

 

[EdTeachLives!]

W-w-what? A Delta pilot who doesn't know exactly what's going on? How's that possible?

(Ok, I feel better now...)

There will be a briefing in ATL. There will also be negotiations in NYC.

Not accurate information. Get in contact with your representatives/duty pilots. Lounges, phone, email...they are all out there. Find out for yourselves.

Ed

 

[Occam's Razor]

Not accurate information. Get in contact with your representatives/duty pilots. Lounges, phone, email...they are all out there. Find out for yourselves.

Ed

They're heading out there tonight.

 

[EdTeachLives!]

They're heading out there tonight.

Occam. For the most part you have a lot of great insight and info to add. This time I am going to venture that you might be getting some suspect information. The briefings from the reps consistantly includes information that indicates specifically no more negotiations.

IF any were to happen, it sounds like maybe leaving the commitees out of it and having some more rational open thinkers sit down with each other might be in order. Its too bad. It sounds as if it truly was a 1 + 1 = 3 deal and maybe then some.

Ed

 

[FDJ2]

The briefings from the reps consistantly includes information that indicates specifically no more negotiations.

Your rep was right, however things change. There has been further reflection by some and they want to reignite negotiations. Folks have been invited up North. There may have been a change of heart and a more realistic approach.

Let's see what happens.

 

[ExAF]

If in doubt...

Just follow the money. I don't think its over. Too much money involved for all concerned. Not just pilots.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Occam. For the most part you have a lot of great insight and info to add. This time I am going to venture that you might be getting some suspect information. The briefings from the reps consistantly includes information that indicates specifically no more negotiations.

Well, you know best. I've never deviated from my flight plan.

You?

 

[~~~^~~~]

Figured that they would come to their senses, but I hoped that they would not, at least not until this fall.

For the Delta new hires that got ER wide bodies in today's class, your career expecations are in serious jeopardy if this deal goes down without fences.

 

[Redmeat]

For the Delta new hires that got ER wide bodies in today's class, your career expecations are in serious jeopardy if this deal goes down without fences.

Is that you? Everyones gotta give on this deal bro.

 

[3ds]

Just follow the money. I don't think its over. Too much money involved for all concerned. Not just pilots.

agree. hope ALPA makes sure both sides get a bigger cut of that money. Consider the stock prices over the last month: announce merger talks and both stocks climb. Then turn the WHOLE THING (right) over to the pilot unions for permission and they can't agree on the deal, so the stock tumbles and analcysts forecast doom. Surely Pardus & co. have been monitoring the market very closely over this time and were buying and selling appropriately. Thanks to this very public 'fight' between dal and nwa pilots, they watched as the stocks almost doubled over a 2 month period. Now that both stock prices are back to the low teens, let's see how high they jump when a deal gets announced. Buy low, sell high... even dumb 'just labor' pilots get that one!

Hope the pilots get compensated for their role in this. What's a reasonable dollar amount for having one's future and livelihood tinkered with? Does it depend on DOH? Maybe. Don't know one way or the other.

(Thinking about it... one could argue that junior guys are young enough to 'recover' from such turmoil, while senior guys theoretically have a nice nest egg already saved up, so no compensation is required to anyone. Nah, they wouldn't try that one, right?).

 

[Superpilot92]

Figured that they would come to their senses, but I hoped that they would not, at least not until this fall.

For the Delta new hires that got ER wide bodies in today's class, your career expectations are in serious jeopardy if this deal goes down without fences.

Why do you continue to post stuff like that? You have no real idea what this would mean for a Newb at DAL or NWA. Its all speculation right now. While it may not be ideal it certainly could be worse. IMHO fly safe

 

[General Lee]

agree. hope ALPA makes sure both sides get a bigger cut of that money. Consider the stock prices over the last month: announce merger talks and both stocks climb. Then turn the WHOLE THING (right) over to the pilot unions for permission and they can't agree on the deal, so the stock tumbles and analcysts forecast doom. Surely Pardus & co. have been monitoring the market very closely over this time and were buying and selling appropriately. Thanks to this very public 'fight' between dal and nwa pilots, they watched as the stocks almost doubled over a 2 month period. Now that both stock prices are back to the low teens, let's see how high they jump when a deal gets announced. Buy low, sell high... even dumb 'just labor' pilots get that one!

Hope the pilots get compensated for their role in this. What's a reasonable dollar amount for having one's future and livelihood tinkered with? Does it depend on DOH? Maybe. Don't know one way or the other.

(Thinking about it... one could argue that junior guys are young enough to 'recover' from such turmoil, while senior guys theoretically have a nice nest egg already saved up, so no compensation is required to anyone. Nah, they wouldn't try that one, right?).

A 15% raise for NWA pilots, then 4% each year for the next 3 years. 100K in cash ($46K of that would fill 2009 401K, and the rest taxed), 12% DC fund for this year, and 1% added each of the next two years, and better work rules that would add 200-300 pilots without any growth, and no furlough protection. Does any of that sound appealling? How about a fair seniority list merger then? If your pension was threatened, you would lose about the same number of guys we did. We also parked a bunch of planes as our guys were leaving (737-200s/300s, 767-200s, MD11s), which didn't really help us much. You would have to take that into account.

Your Greenbook Merger Committee leader has to come off his DOH stance, or it will be no deal.

We'll see if any of this pans out. I would rather have NO merger than a bad one.

Bye Bye--General Lee