Delta/NWA Seniority List Negotiation Tidbits

[General Lee]

We have position bids (called Advanced Position Awards - "APA's") every month.

You GIVE us nothing!

That might be the craziest thing I have ever read. Really? More planes, actual orders that are coming to us now (vs a 787 that hasn't even flown yet, and delays are mounting), more choices of bases, a leader that is BETTER than Steenland, a global reach beyond ASIA, which is all you have right now except 5 European cities.......

Got that?

You GOT Steenland. Need I say more? He loves you guys. Our Anderson and your Steenland had a "seniority" fight for control of the company, and Steenland gave in. You should come down off of your high mountain and consider giving an inch, and also get rid of your Nikita Kruschef (SP?) type leader on your Merger Committee. Banging his fists on a table blurting "Date of Hire, Date of Hire....." doesn't work. I wonder if any of the alternates or 10 observers thought that might be a bit strange?


When the list is integrated, all pilots will be able to bid their seniority, assuming there are no "fences" (called "Conditions & Restrictions").

I see an overwhelming stampeed towards warmer bases. But, we give you NOTHING.... How many want to go to DTW? Anyone?

Some pilots bid $$. Some bid ease-of-commute. Some bid relative seniority to enhance QOL.

With what you are offering, nobody on the Delta side will move up at ATL thanks to constant rebidding of NWA guys to DL bases. Not so much to NYC, but rather ATL, LAX, and even SLC with Park City an attractive alternate to Detroit. But, you can't see that.

If you can predict the bidding habits of NWA (or DAL pilots!), then you should be working for your Crew Planning department, instead of posting gratuitous flamebaiting crap such as "So we give you..."

Any idea how many of your guys commute to DTW? If they live in Virginia Beach, for example, would it be easier to bid ATL or DTW? Your commuters will look for the closer base with an eye on the pay raise too, and bid closer. They won't have to live in base, just look to see which is closer. Our LAX base will be swamped too by every one of your West Coast commuters. Your SEA base is out of touch to anyone with less than 12 years.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[~~~^~~~]

Banging his fists on a table blurting "Date of Hire, Date of Hire....."

Chuck Giambusso is on the NWA negotiating commitee?

BTW - who's buying the beer after the meetings?

 

[johnsonrod]

Am I alone in wanting this merger proposal to die so that the NWA guys can continue to live in mediocrity?

 

[Superpilot92]

Am I alone in wanting this merger proposal to die so that the NWA guys can continue to live in mediocrity?

You can Go ahead and step down of your imaginary horse now uke:

 

[Occam's Razor]

What? I thought that the DAL team was holding a briefing in ATL on Monday.

W-w-what? A Delta pilot who doesn't know exactly what's going on? How's that possible?

(Ok, I feel better now...)

There will be a briefing in ATL. There will also be negotiations in NYC.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Wa, Wa, Wa, W h a t? Are the NWA pilots negotiating amongst themselves in NYC? Now I really want to know who's buying the beer!

Heck, I may just fly up there and buy the beer as long as they don't start drinnking that imported stuff. I've got a place to overnight - Steenland's wife said she'd let me stay in her room - she's a nice girl.

 

[General Lee]

Am I alone in wanting this merger proposal to die so that the NWA guys can continue to live in mediocrity?

Classic! They got OWNED with that one!

No, in reality, I am sure they are fun bunch with a lot to talk about. If we shared a cockpit, I would look over at my FO (an ex DC9 Captain) and ask "Tell me about Ice Fishing and lutefisk." When he was done, I would tell him about Nascar and how my niece who looks like Jamie Lynn Spears just got her GED at age 22. Then I would ask for a before start checklist....TIC


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[~~~^~~~]

I would tell him about Nascar and how my niece who looks like Jamie Lynn Spears just got her GED at age 22. Then I would ask for a before start checklist....TIC

Bye Bye--General Lee

Can you PM me with her phone number. Steenland's wife is, well....

 

[General Lee]

Can you PM me with her phone number. Steenland's wife is, well....

Hey, I will give it to you now. 867-5309.....

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Occam's Razor]

Ok, I'll consider that, by the same token our negotiators must consider something that addresses seniority progression in the case of fleet shrinkage and displacements without the NWA pilots hitting the exits at 60. (many want to stick around for their 30% raise if this deal happens)

I think the solution lies somewhere in the Shire of Shared Pain. My personal suggestion has been to alter the blending formula at certain points in each list.

DOH is stoo-pid...and will not happen. My NWA brethren spouting that are chuckle-headed dweebs.

A single ratio formula that ignores the implacable reality ("M-A-T-H") of our collective future is equally lame.

Strident arguments by both sides that seek to demean the other are the height of desperation.

We know (and I'll cut and past the articles if you insist) that NWA is parking airplanes and we know Delta has jets on firm order. That's what is on record at this point in time.

(sigh)

Yes. That's 100% correct. It's not accurate...it's merely correct. It's not accurate because it ignores other facts, such as NWA also having aircraft on order and DAL parking aircraft.

Why ignore ALL the facts?

Perhaps the inability to recognize all the facts is a contributing factor in the merger talks?

NWA (and Delta) are both hiring because they got behind the staffing curve during bankruptcy. The shrinking DC-9 fleet that requires more pilots to fly it while Steenland brags about RJ's coming does not make sense. We can re-visit this debate after the summer schedule and I'll get your cup of "I told you so" ready... we'll see if you, or I, have to drink it.

(sigh)

Parking DC-9's is not an issue. I could explain it to you in excruciating detail, but I think it'd be a waste of my time. Here's the Executive Summary: Variable Caps have more impact than the retirement of DC-9's scheduled over the next 12-months.

Let me ask, what about a "Fair Plan" like I posted? Let the NWA pilots have their list and Delta have theirs, merge system seniority by relative position for the growth slots. In the mean time, you got your jets and you got your retirements. No DOH windfall to scare the Delta pilots, you preserve your retirements for your fleet advancement; relative seniority for the system list giving pilots the choice of when they want to take the leap.

I don't have a problem with it. What did your reps say when you sent it to them for review? Did they present it at the table?

 

[johnsonrod]

You can Go ahead and step down of your imaginary horse now uke:

Perhaps you can show us where NWA excels in anything? Salary? Work rules? Warm-weather hubs? Do you put NWA in the front of the pack or in the very back of the pack? I'd say dead center for now. You have pensions - that's one positive. Otherwise everything seems pretty average. How is NWA currently anything but a mediocre employer for pilots?

 

[General Lee]

Which planes again are we currently parking at Delta? We renegotiated all of the MD88 leases to more than favorable, and our 767s are getting winglets. We are only getting new planes right now. Looking at NWA, I see 2 fleets on the way out eventually (742 and DC9), and 787s on the way sometime in the future (the first prototype hasn't flown yet). I don't think your former leader Anderson is as happy now with the prospect of keeping the DC9s, since oil was cheaper when he ran your company earlier. Same with the 742s. He may have loved them before, but now they are getting more expensive.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Perhaps you can show us where NWA excels in anything? Salary? Work rules? Warm-weather hubs? Do you put NWA in the front of the pack or in the very back of the pack? I'd say dead center for now. Do you disagree? How is NWA currently anything but a mediocre employer for pilots?

They have the CHANCE to fly a 787 to Bangalore, India someday.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[brainhurts]

Perhaps you can show us where NWA excels in anything?
Salary? I understand that you have not been in the big leagues long sonny, but excelling in salary is an up and down proposition. It was not long ago that NWA had industry leading rates.
Work rules? Come on sonny, since you came from an rj background, you understand the importance of SCOPE and how Delta led in the demise of 100 seat flying at the legacys.
Warm-weather hubs? Does everyone in the nation live in warm weather? Don't those people have green stuff called money in their pockets? Don't they need hubs as well?

Do you put NWA in the front of the pack or in the very back of the pack? I'd say dead center for now.
I would say above dead center, however it is a moving target
You have pensions - that's one positive. That is a pretty big positive.

Otherwise everything seems pretty average. How is NWA currently anything but a mediocre employer for pilots?
In this day in age mediocre is not a bad place to be. Oil=$103 per barrel youngster. Will you be heading back to your rj play area?
As I said before, this deal will get legs. There is too much money on the table. J-Rod, I know you want inner growth because it will keep your precious toe hold on Delta seniority, and possibly avoid a furlough, but your antagonostic view really sounds lame. You picked a risky time to go to Delta. It will probably work out for you, but acting like a butt hole is pretty imature. I do not even need to chastise the General because he wacks off before each post, which means he wacks off 17.2 times a day. He has a sperm stalagtite/stalagmite above/below his computer desk.

 

[Noserider76]

Nothing on this board really accomplishes anything except blowing off a little steam but the insults are counter-productive on both sides. Do we want to view each other as d*cks, or fellow pilots we may be working with some day?

 

[johnsonrod]

These discussions are starting resemble USAirways East and West discussions...

 

[Superpilot92]

Nothing on this board really accomplishes anything except blowing off a little steam but the insults are counter-productive on both sides. Do we want to view each other as d*cks, or fellow pilots we may be working with some day?

Hi pot, meet kettle!!:blush:




I agree with your point though

 

[Noserider76]

Hi pot, meet kettle!!:blush:




I agree with your point though

I was including myself and most especially you!

But it can be all out war when Col Razor tells us the deal is dead or I get screwed on the list. Tic

 

[Superpilot92]

I was including myself and most especially you!

But it can be all out war when Col Razor tells us the deal is dead or I get screwed on the list. Tic

Lets be fair here, i dont flamebait people and want this to be as civil as possible considering I have a VERY long time left at NWA or DAL for that matter. Hopefully either way it goes down it will turn out good for both pilot groups.

 

[generaltso]

Lets be fair here, i dont flamebait people and want this to be as civil as possible considering I have a VERY long time left at NWA or DAL for that matter. Hopefully either way it goes down it will turn out good for both pilot groups.

Superpilot, you should take a few days off of the message board and get outside. You came in this industry with SJS and no understanding of how things work. Now you get on with NWA and act like you have been there for several years? Has it even been 24 hours yet? There are many new hires at NWA itching for the merger to go through so they can get a large pay increase and opportunity to fly something other than the DC-9 for the next several years.

I like how you capitalized the word VERY in your post. You truly must be a superpilot!!!