Delta/NWA Seniority List Negotiation Tidbits

[General Lee]

We have position bids (called Advanced Position Awards - "APA's") every month.

You GIVE us nothing!

That might be the craziest thing I have ever read. Really? More planes, actual orders that are coming to us now (vs a 787 that hasn't even flown yet, and delays are mounting), more choices of bases, a leader that is BETTER than Steenland, a global reach beyond ASIA, which is all you have right now except 5 European cities.......

Got that?

You GOT Steenland. Need I say more? He loves you guys. Our Anderson and your Steenland had a "seniority" fight for control of the company, and Steenland gave in. You should come down off of your high mountain and consider giving an inch, and also get rid of your Nikita Kruschef (SP?) type leader on your Merger Committee. Banging his fists on a table blurting "Date of Hire, Date of Hire....." doesn't work. I wonder if any of the alternates or 10 observers thought that might be a bit strange?


When the list is integrated, all pilots will be able to bid their seniority, assuming there are no "fences" (called "Conditions & Restrictions").

I see an overwhelming stampeed towards warmer bases. But, we give you NOTHING.... How many want to go to DTW? Anyone?

Some pilots bid $$. Some bid ease-of-commute. Some bid relative seniority to enhance QOL.

With what you are offering, nobody on the Delta side will move up at ATL thanks to constant rebidding of NWA guys to DL bases. Not so much to NYC, but rather ATL, LAX, and even SLC with Park City an attractive alternate to Detroit. But, you can't see that.

If you can predict the bidding habits of NWA (or DAL pilots!), then you should be working for your Crew Planning department, instead of posting gratuitous flamebaiting crap such as "So we give you..."

Any idea how many of your guys commute to DTW? If they live in Virginia Beach, for example, would it be easier to bid ATL or DTW? Your commuters will look for the closer base with an eye on the pay raise too, and bid closer. They won't have to live in base, just look to see which is closer. Our LAX base will be swamped too by every one of your West Coast commuters. Your SEA base is out of touch to anyone with less than 12 years.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[~~~^~~~]

Banging his fists on a table blurting "Date of Hire, Date of Hire....."

Chuck Giambusso is on the NWA negotiating commitee?

BTW - who's buying the beer after the meetings?

 

[johnsonrod]

Am I alone in wanting this merger proposal to die so that the NWA guys can continue to live in mediocrity?

 

[Superpilot92]

Am I alone in wanting this merger proposal to die so that the NWA guys can continue to live in mediocrity?

You can Go ahead and step down of your imaginary horse now uke:

 

[Occam's Razor]

What? I thought that the DAL team was holding a briefing in ATL on Monday.

W-w-what? A Delta pilot who doesn't know exactly what's going on? How's that possible?

(Ok, I feel better now...)

There will be a briefing in ATL. There will also be negotiations in NYC.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Wa, Wa, Wa, W h a t? Are the NWA pilots negotiating amongst themselves in NYC? Now I really want to know who's buying the beer!

Heck, I may just fly up there and buy the beer as long as they don't start drinnking that imported stuff. I've got a place to overnight - Steenland's wife said she'd let me stay in her room - she's a nice girl.

 

[General Lee]

Am I alone in wanting this merger proposal to die so that the NWA guys can continue to live in mediocrity?

Classic! They got OWNED with that one!

No, in reality, I am sure they are fun bunch with a lot to talk about. If we shared a cockpit, I would look over at my FO (an ex DC9 Captain) and ask "Tell me about Ice Fishing and lutefisk." When he was done, I would tell him about Nascar and how my niece who looks like Jamie Lynn Spears just got her GED at age 22. Then I would ask for a before start checklist....TIC


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[~~~^~~~]

I would tell him about Nascar and how my niece who looks like Jamie Lynn Spears just got her GED at age 22. Then I would ask for a before start checklist....TIC

Bye Bye--General Lee

Can you PM me with her phone number. Steenland's wife is, well....

 

[General Lee]

Can you PM me with her phone number. Steenland's wife is, well....

Hey, I will give it to you now. 867-5309.....

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Occam's Razor]

Ok, I'll consider that, by the same token our negotiators must consider something that addresses seniority progression in the case of fleet shrinkage and displacements without the NWA pilots hitting the exits at 60. (many want to stick around for their 30% raise if this deal happens)

I think the solution lies somewhere in the Shire of Shared Pain. My personal suggestion has been to alter the blending formula at certain points in each list.

DOH is stoo-pid...and will not happen. My NWA brethren spouting that are chuckle-headed dweebs.

A single ratio formula that ignores the implacable reality ("M-A-T-H") of our collective future is equally lame.

Strident arguments by both sides that seek to demean the other are the height of desperation.

We know (and I'll cut and past the articles if you insist) that NWA is parking airplanes and we know Delta has jets on firm order. That's what is on record at this point in time.

(sigh)

Yes. That's 100% correct. It's not accurate...it's merely correct. It's not accurate because it ignores other facts, such as NWA also having aircraft on order and DAL parking aircraft.

Why ignore ALL the facts?

Perhaps the inability to recognize all the facts is a contributing factor in the merger talks?

NWA (and Delta) are both hiring because they got behind the staffing curve during bankruptcy. The shrinking DC-9 fleet that requires more pilots to fly it while Steenland brags about RJ's coming does not make sense. We can re-visit this debate after the summer schedule and I'll get your cup of "I told you so" ready... we'll see if you, or I, have to drink it.

(sigh)

Parking DC-9's is not an issue. I could explain it to you in excruciating detail, but I think it'd be a waste of my time. Here's the Executive Summary: Variable Caps have more impact than the retirement of DC-9's scheduled over the next 12-months.

Let me ask, what about a "Fair Plan" like I posted? Let the NWA pilots have their list and Delta have theirs, merge system seniority by relative position for the growth slots. In the mean time, you got your jets and you got your retirements. No DOH windfall to scare the Delta pilots, you preserve your retirements for your fleet advancement; relative seniority for the system list giving pilots the choice of when they want to take the leap.

I don't have a problem with it. What did your reps say when you sent it to them for review? Did they present it at the table?