Delta Jumpseat Policy Question

[Steeler Fan]

So I'm running to the B Concourse (ATL) Thanksgiving Wednesday...I get there in time for DL (MD-80) and here's what happened:

Gate agent says:
1.There's one open seat in coach (only 1)
2. Delta Pilot on the Cockpit Jumpseat

I'm pretty happy right about now, but then the agent says:

Since you're a jumpseater, BOTH the Cockpit Jumpseat AND a seat in the Cabin Must be available...the only way you can get on is with an ID-90. (I didn't have an ID-90 which is my choice, and I sufferred the consequences).

I see the F/O working the flight (pretty nice guy) and he asks me if I'm going to PIT. I say: "I'd like to and there's an open seat in the back, but the agent said I can't go because the cockpit jumpseat is occupied".

The F/O says: "OK, see ya later"--Basically better luck next time.

I was kind of surprised how that all went down...about 90 minutes later the EXACT same situation happened on ASA, and I very happily took a the last open seat in the cabin.

Here's my question: Is that really the Delta policy? I just want to make sure that in the future I know what the policy is in such a situation. I'm looking for some clarification.

Thanks for any info you have.

 

[IAHERJ]

Unfortunately, that is the policy. If the aircraft has only 1 jumpseat, then only 1 jumpseater, period. If there were 2 open seats in the back, and the Delta guy decided to sit in one as a pass rider, then you could have had the other. Most Delta guys will gladly take themselves out of the jumpseat to accomodate an offline guy being able to fill out the form and ride in the back. I sincerely hope the policy over there changes soon. We carried 3 of their guys last week out of Florida one day before I was bumped by another offline guy on one of their -88's that had over 20 open seats in the back. At least let another carriers pilot pay a fee at the gate for a seat like AirTran does! ID-90's are hard to get through AirTran unlike my last carrier where you could get one on the spot at the ticket counter, then proceed directly to another carriers gate and use it. But that is our problem, not Delta's.

IAHERJ

 

[SRJ]

Until other carriers start doing the same to other airline pilots with the "limited" jumpseat rule, nothing will be done. I know that UsAir, SWA, AirTran, and all the express carriers take unlimited jumpseaters as long as there are seats in the back. There are probably more carriers (Frontier, AWA, Alaska???) however these are the only airlines I have had exposure to. I have had the same problem with Delta and United where I have been left and seats are available. I would gladly pay the $25 to get where I need to like AirTran offers. I do not understand why Delta has this policy....mabe the General can fill me in?

 

[Dave Benjamin]

I just had an AA guy in my jumpseat. Apparently AA has implemented a novel approach to jumpseat authorizations. They now reciprocate in kind. If you're unlimited on jumpseats, so are they. Maybe this concept will catch on.

 

[wndshr]

i think JetBlue allows multiple pilot jumpseaters AND flight attendants...is that right?

i did hear a rumor that some offline f/a's are kinda abusing the policy and not checking in with the crew...i hope this policy does not change! hopefully a JBer can dismiss this rumor..

 

[trueblue]

Yeah, everyone, including FAs, are welcome on Jetblue jumpseats. If there are 10 open seats in the cabin, then 10 more can jumpseat at no cost. If the seats are full, we have 2 cabin jumpseats to offer and hopefully very soon, we will be able to offer our 2 cockpit jumpseats to interested, off-line pilots. Hope this helps.

 

[aa73]

I just had an AA guy in my jumpseat. Apparently AA has implemented a novel approach to jumpseat authorizations. They now reciprocate in kind. If you're unlimited on jumpseats, so are they. Maybe this concept will catch on.

Well, almost. We are in the process of adding more carriers to the Unlimited list...so far only 4 carriers can ride on us unlimited:

-USAir
-Southwest
-Horizon
-Comair

As a non-AA jumpseater, your designation is either D6L (for limited) or D6U (for unlimited.) D6 denotes the fact that you are an OAL (other airline) jumpseater. So if you are a DL pilot you would be a D6L, and so on.

We hope to add all carriers to Unlimitied status that reciprocate, eventually.

Glad to help out fellow commuters when I can!

aa73

 

[jetblue320]

Well, almost. We are in the process of adding more carriers to the Unlimited list...so far only 4 carriers can ride on us unlimited:

-USAir
-Southwest
-Horizon
-Comair

As far as I have heard, JetBlue now has unlimited privilages as well. I think it was approved last month so maybe your data/info hasn't been updated yet. Word on the street has been that AA has been great to our guys and gals.

Happy T Day.

 

[shootr]

oops...

 

[shootr]

Anyone try to jump on Delta since they voted on their new contract? Supposedly unlimited flowback but not sure if that's for everyone or just a few companies. Anyone?

shootr

 

[stillflyn]

I like AA jumpseating policy. Maybe we should all restrict our unlimited jumpseats to UAL and DAL (to number of actual jumpseats) until they fix it on their end. I know we (JB) pack on a lot of the UAL crews out of FLL to IAD and JFK after they shut down their MIA base.

 

[aa73]

As far as I have heard, JetBlue now has unlimited privilages as well. I think it was approved last month so maybe your data/info hasn't been updated yet. Word on the street has been that AA has been great to our guys and gals.

Happy T Day.

I will check into it. If so, glad to have y'all!

 

[AirBoard]

Aa

Well, almost. We are in the process of adding more carriers to the Unlimited list...so far only 4 carriers can ride on us unlimited:

-USAir
-Southwest
-Horizon
-Comair

As a non-AA jumpseater, your designation is either D6L (for limited) or D6U (for unlimited.) D6 denotes the fact that you are an OAL (other airline) jumpseater. So if you are a DL pilot you would be a D6L, and so on.

We hope to add all carriers to Unlimitied status that reciprocate, eventually.

Glad to help out fellow commuters when I can!


aa73

Any idea how long this update process will take. Some of our guys are getting left behind because we're still in as D6L. We (Independence/ACA) have been offering unlimited to AA for years and just wondering what the hold up is.

Appreciate the opportunity nonetheless.

 

[sweptback]

Any idea how long this update process will take. Some of our guys are getting left behind because we're still in as D6L. We (Independence/ACA) have been offering unlimited to AA for years and just wondering what the hold up is.

Appreciate the opportunity nonetheless.

The good news is that a lot of the agents have no idea about the jumpseat policies (especially the ones at the ticket counter -- hint hint) and sometimes check you in as D6U. I always play dumb and let them make the decision, usually it works out with no problem.

(My carrier is unlimited as well, and I know the American pilots know it cause they use us a lot... so I'm not sure why we're not in the system as unlimited yet).

 

[NYRANGERS]

I like AA jumpseating policy. Maybe we should all restrict our unlimited jumpseats to UAL and DAL (to number of actual jumpseats) until they fix it on their end. I know we (JB) pack on a lot of the UAL crews out of FLL to IAD and JFK after they shut down their MIA base.

I agree with your premise. It is a way to pressure line pilots to try to negotiate better policy (regarding the jumpseat). However, I would envision some real problems with reciprocity regarding UAL and DAL. Not most pilots, but some will look at it as an attack and not allow JB pilots on the JS.

Some pilots would think this.........You (JB pilots) want us to change our contract to resemble yours (with regards to the JS). If we don't you will bring the JS into the fray.

Some pilots may say the same thing applies to your contract....IE. If you (JB pilots) don't raise your pay, or work rules, or retirement etc.etc., then no JS for you.

The JS should never be used as a way to change a contract.

DALPA is working on this as we write. I hope and expect it to change, but starting a JS war with two of the three biggest airlines in the world is not such a good idea (IMHO).

Regards,

NYRANGERS

 

[jetblue320]

I agree with your premise. It is a way to pressure line pilots to try to negotiate better policy (regarding the jumpseat). However, I would envision some real problems with reciprocity regarding UAL and DAL. Not most pilots, but some will look at it as an attack and not allow JB pilots on the JS.

Some pilots would think this.........You (JB pilots) want us to change our contract to resemble yours (with regards to the JS). If we don't you will bring the JS into the fray.

Some pilots may say the same thing applies to your contract....IE. If you (JB pilots) don't raise your pay, or work rules, or retirement etc.etc., then no JS for you.

The JS should never be used as a way to change a contract.

DALPA is working on this as we write. I hope and expect it to change, but starting a JS war with two of the three biggest airlines in the world is not such a good idea (IMHO).

Regards,

NYRANGERS

NYR,

You are correct. I personally think it sucks that your company, as well as many of the others, use YOUR (your's meaning the pilots) jumpseat as a negotiating tool. For us, the JS has never come into play with regards to who "owns" it. Our management has always encouraged us to spread the word about our liberal policy and I am sure will continue to do so. We do have a few guys that might "wish" they had the ability to use it as a bargaining tool when dealing with other airlines, but it's just not that way.

We have a JS Committee, made up of a few pilots, and thety go about trying to get the best deals with OAL's as they can, and have done a great job. I don't know their methods, but I am sure that JB having the policy that it does certainly helps. I am sure that the other airlines JS Coordinators wish their hands weren't tied, but unfortunately, in many cases, they are.

That's the way the ball bounces.

C yaaa and Happy Holidays.

 

[aa73]

Any idea how long this update process will take. Some of our guys are getting left behind because we're still in as D6L. We (Independence/ACA) have been offering unlimited to AA for years and just wondering what the hold up is.

Appreciate the opportunity nonetheless.

Airboard...

No official timeline so to speak, just an assurance from our jumpseat guy that all reciprocating carriers will eventually be accomodated, my guess is within the next year. Let me look into that as well, got nothing better to do on reserve anyway.

 

[stillflyn]

NYRANGERS,

How did pay come up? I just happen to like AA policy. If we get unlimited jumpseating on your airline then you get unlimited jumpseating on my airline. If you allow only 1 jumpseater per jumpseat and the plane goes out with 50 open seats and leave me behind, then it should be fair to offer the same service. Isn't that how DAL and UAL opperate? If we never left any of those guys behind nothing would change on their end. I'm sure that no one wants to leave anyone behind. DAL and UAL just need to get their policy changed by what ever means.

stillflyn

 

[Dizel8]

"AA has implemented a novel approach to jumpseat authorizations. They now reciprocate in kind. If you're unlimited on jumpseats, so are they".

Seems like the right way to approach it:" We get it on you, you get it on us.

However, while I sometimes get left behind due to the one jumpseat policy, I know how frustrating it is, so I probably would have a hard time turning someone esle down. This job offers enough hassle as is!

Perhaps we just need to work together and try to get the one jumpseat policy changed.

 

[Cosmo1999]

I was riding jumpseat on delta the other day and they asked if we taked unlimited jumpseaters. I said that we did and he said it was great because he had used us to get to work a few times. I asked if they were trying to work unlimited jumpseaters out and they said they are trying however management may want to eliminate offline jumpseating all together. Basically he said they only want FAA, DAL and DCI people in the jumpseat and no one else even if there are 100 open seats. He says they want to give unlimited jumpseats howeverthe company is fighting them on it. Please tell me this is not true. That would cause a lot of headaches if the offline jumpseat went away on DAL. Personally I wouldnt want to turn away someone to doesnt take unlimited jumpseaters because its a management thing. The pilots have no control over it and if they could they would take as many jumpseaters as there are open seats. Maybe someday it will be unlimited for all on every airline..

 

[aa73]

Updated AA list

OK guys just did some checking into Sabre, and I stand corrected on the D6U (Unlimited) category:

-Southwest
-USAirways
-Alaska (not Horizon, sorry)
-Comair
-JetBlue

Looks like they added JB in September, welcome.

Again, our union jumpseat rep says that more reciprocating unlimiteds will be joining us in the near term.

Sorry for the confusion

aa73

 

[ProLine4]

By far the biggest obstacle on AA is the gate agent. God help you if you get a bad one, I swear some of them enjoy telling you "you cant get on because of <insert incorrect reason here>."

Once beyond that hurdle though, the crews and FAs are great. Thanks for the rides guys.

 

[airlinepilot]

The real truth!!!

The real truth is this: Delta pilots as a group had enough leverage to get the top pay scales in the industry.....Too bad they didn't care to use the same leverage to help there buddies that need a ride to work or home!!! Even in the latest pay-cut contract they didn't try to help their buddies out. It is no secret that post 911 commuting is harder...yet Delta basically thumbed their nose at their fellow pilots.... I always give them a ear full (very nicely) when I see them wanting a ride.....

 

[dojetdriver]

Another question about DAL JS;

If JS'ing on an int'l flight on a 2 JS airplane and one of the JS's is broke (deferred), does that prevent you cats from taking an offline guy even though there are seats in the back?

 

[General Lee]

airlinepilot,


That is ridiculous. We were lucky to get the jumpseat back after the 96 contract, and the jumpseat to Delta is sacrosanct. They don't want the other employees to get unions, so they don't want to show any favoritism. That is the truth, even though all of the non revs would get on anyway before any jumpseater in the back. That is the way Delta operates, and if you want to limit your own jumpseats to one or two per aircraft (since some of our planes have two cockpit jumpseats and on those we allow two)---then go ahead and do it. Make yourself feel great! Good for you. I have never seen a Delta jumpseater on our planes NOT give up his jumpseat to sit in the back if there was room. I just saw on Thanksgiving one of our guys give up his jumpseat so that a Mesa guy could get on.


As far as this last TA, we are working now on CASS and setting up a special reciprocal jumpseat deal with AA and Southwest initially. We're working on getting improvements, and by the way---we did raise the pay bar for everyone for three full years---which probably helped you out. You're welcome.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[airlinepilot]

Enough Said!

General......you can color it anyway you want....but Delta's JS restrictions speaks volumes without any comment by you or anyone else. Doesn't Delta own Comair/ASA....they don't restrict the JS.

 

[General Lee]

Airlinepilot,


You OBVIOUSLY don't know anything about Delta and it's "culture." The management guys do not want any other unions on the property, and they are very protective of those other employees. That said, they don't want anything to appear "unfair", even though any non rev can get on before any offline jumpseater. It really doesn't make any sense, but it is true. If you choose to ignore that, then fine. We are working on CASS, which is better than a lot of other airlines. We do offer 2 jumpseats on aircraft with two cockpit jumpseats, which is better than just one always. As far as ASA and Comair, they may have had that policy before Delta bought them, I don't know. If any of those employees ever want to come over to mainline eventually, they will do so knowing about our jumpseat policy. We had NO jumpseat before 1996, and to have more than one now on certain aircraft is a large improvement.

Complain all you want, but I know that most Delta pilots are helpful and try to "do good" by writing a pass if another jumpseater shows up.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Russ]

Post 9/11 as we settled in to the new norm, we (SkyWest) allowed D in the actual. All the while it was not reciprocated. The D guys would tell us how they thought it was a bum deal and management was to blame. Bottom line, the D guys (really W guys in that area) were getting to work. Low and behold as the Olympics approached and the back was full SkyWest said no more and laid down a deadline. Somehow, possibly by coincidence we were allowed back in to the actual just prior to implementing the stricter policy.
I know the lawn needs to be mowed, its the right thing to do to keep the association nazi's off my back, but somehow it never gets done till my wife threatens to shut off access, well, you get my point.

 

[General Lee]

Russ,

Your Skywest jumpseating policy $ucks. Last time I went through LA I had a Skywest jumpseater ask for a ride, and he flew out of Fresno on the United side. Do you know how much of a hassle it is to ride in the front of one of your United Skywest planes? We don't ususally ask your Skywest pilots "which Skywest do you fly for?" (The UAL side vs the DL side) We let any of your pilots up front, and we can't usually get the same from you guys without a major hassle and nearly begging the United gate agents to get you guys up to the gate or to call a dispatcher to verify employment. Bottomline, we allow ANY Skywest pilot in any of our jumpseats, and that is not the same on your side. That needs to be streamlined or we will have to start asking which base you fly out of---since only SLC serves the Delta side.......You really need to get that fixed and inform the United people that we are allowed in your jumpseat up front.



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Russ]

"since only SLC serves the Delta side"


Carried plenty'o D jump seaters out of DFW. Imagine I might again next week. Moot point in the future, but for now your statement is incorrect. Sorry, no your not allowed up front on the UA side. The CP sent out a memo a month ago and said no countermanding what he said earlier that might lead you to think you could. I believe more than anything its the company dragging its feet despite what it says, perhaps you should put some pressure on us and see if its works in reverse as it did for us.
All things said SkyWest still has a better JS policy than does D. Unlimited D pilots in the back of any SkyWest plane and if the airplane is the same color as yours you can ride up front. Can't say the same if if the situation is reversed. I imagine somehow you think D has a better policy, yes, no?