Delta Jumpseat Policy Question

[Russ]

OK General, that's all I wanted for Christmas, for you to admit that SkyWest's system is better than Delta's.


Yes, you should be able to sit up front on a UA colored aircraft. Just the same, DAL counters should be able to real time verify a UA pilots verification so he can get on at a DAL station, however they cannot. Until powers higher than SkyWest allow it (read UAL/DAL/TSA)however you/UA guy are the back. The argument for SkyWest pilots of all types to ride up front on DAL aircraft is stronger than yours for flying up front on a UA aircraft. To some degree SkyWest pilots fly both sides, getting D pax where they need to go one day and UA the next.
My belief of why you should be in the UA aircraft is not based on your argument, but simply on the belief that any 121 pilot should be able to occupy the actual. If your SAN Captains show up for the actual, and they are not beat out by an Alaska guy or whomever, up front they go. This is just the way it was pre 9/11, at least at SkyWest. The usual qualifiers of employment verification, true adherence to recip agreements, etc.

 

[General Lee]

Russ,


So, did you actually answer my question? And, did you say that any other airline pilot should have preference as long as they show up first? That isn't how we do it at Delta, we have a priority list. You should know that, you guys are on it. Do you want to have first come first serve also on Delta? I would think that you would LIKE to have priority over other airlines. You don't? So, are Delta guys given priority over other pilots from other airlines?


So, once again, tell me (or I win, again) why we should let all of your pilots (every domicile including the IAH based E120s that ONLY serve CO) in our cockpits, when we can't sit in theirs? Answer the question Russ---don't avoid it---it sure looks like you are avoiding the question.


Another quote by Russ:

"My belief of why you should be in the UA aircraft is not based on your argument, but simply on the belief that any 121 pilot should be able to occupy the actual. If your SAN Captains show up for the actual, and they are not beat out by an Alaska guy or whomever, up front they go. This is just the way it was pre 9/11, at least at SkyWest. The usual qualifiers of employment verification, true adherence to recip agreements, etc."


And, another question that would be a bonus if you also answered this one---should Delta have priority over other airlines on certain flights?(DL Connection, then United Express after the United pilots etc...) This could get interesting....... We allow all Skywest pilots in the cockpit along with other DCI carriers, and Skywest guys would get priority in the back also before any other regional besides ASA/Comair. You don't think we should get the same on you guys? Please verify.



Any other Skywest guys out there want to chime in and agree with Russ????


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Russ]

Poor wording on my part, I was soo excited you admitted defeat. Not really sure why it is you seek my opinion, but here it is. Know that just like you, I am a peon in the larger scheme.

A UA flight from SAN to LAX, the DAL Captain you made mention of as an example. Skywest-UAL-DAL-other in that order.
A Delta connection flight. SkyWest-DAL-UAL-other.

As far as letting ALL SkyWest pilots in the DAL actual regardless of the primary color of their acft...
Thought I answered that. However for your edification, and as I am a gracious winner, I will once more. Any SkyWest pilot can fly in any of the systems. That COEX guy can pick up open time, a reserve down there can be brought up to the UA or DAL system at any time. Its a very junior domicile, many are assigned there as new hires and within a few months are flying your passengers in SLC.

"and bob, the big loser tonight is the General, his consolation prize behind door number one...a four day non commutable trip"

 

[General Lee]

Russ, Russ, Russ,

Poor wording on your part? I caught you in a fib. No, I caught you not thinking correctly---which happens sometimes when debating with me. But let me guess---you are a MASTER DEBATER? Say it five times fast please.


Come on now. Sure, every pilot at Skywest can pick up open time from any base. Ok, that may be the case. That is a great way to get around my point---sorta. But, which Skywest pilots can sit on Continental's cockpit jumpseat? Am I wrong here? I believe IAH E120 pilots are the only ones to be allowed in Continental's cockpit jumpseat, right? Don't they have to have an IAH badge? Am I wrong here? Can SMF or FAT based E120 pilots fly in CO jumpseats? I don't think so........I think I got you on that one.... Why would CO do that? Should Delta do that too?

Now, you really never replied to the fact that we allow every one of your pilots in our jumpseat (that sure is nice of us), and you guys restrict. I would like you to admit that for the record please. That will really make my day---since it would mean that I won, again, pointing out the obvious----that our overall cockpit jumpseat deal is better than yours-----which is restrictive.

That was my whole point here----that even though our Delta jump is restrictive to numbers of pilots that can sit in the back, yours is restrictive to those who can sit in your cockpits---even when ours IS NOT. A double standard and something that should not be overlooked.


What was it that good ole Jim Carrey kept repeating in Ace Ventura? ""LLLooooosssseeerrrr". Sorry Russ---it fits you tonight!



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Russ]

"debating with me"
Be more like toying with you.

"caught you in a fib"
My six year old fibs, adults tell lies. I have nothing to gain or lose by lying to you.

"MASTER DEBATER"
Close. I have images of Belushi starting to pull his sword out.

"which Skywest pilots can sit on Continental's cockpit jumpseat"
Got me by the short hairs, I dunno, go fish. What's the answer?

"our overall cockpit jumpseat deal is better than yours"
Refer you to your own words: "If I were a SW pilot, I would think your deal is better currently" DAL and SkyWest are a small percentage of the overall pilot population, the vast majority of pilots get a better deal from SkyWest, this by your own admission.

"A double standard and something that should not be overlooked"
I'll get right on that, first thing in the morning.

Play the tune from the Dukes of Hazard backwards and guess what you hear?
LOSER.

Your cutting in to app filling out time.

 

[ILStoMinimums]

General,

Can you confirm which planes have 2 jumpseats? Isn't it only the 767 and the 777? What happens if the flight requires a relief crew member, is tha tconsidered occupied?
I'm trying to remember, doesn't the flight have to be 10 hours before a relief pilot is required?

 

[TonyC]

"our overall cockpit jumpseat deal is better than yours"
Refer you to your own words: "If I were a SW pilot, I would think your deal is better currently" DAL and SkyWest are a small percentage of the overall pilot population, the vast majority of pilots get a better deal from SkyWest, this by your own admission.

You're trying to compare cockpit jumpseats with cabin jumpseats. I believe that General Lee concedes you have a better cabin jumpseat arrangement -- he's complaining about your cockpit jumpseat arrangement. (You are familiar with FAR 121.547, right?)

Seriously, guys. Every time I "tune in" to this thread, I feel an urge to yell at my adolescent children and tell them to hush their fussin', only to realize they're not even talkin' - - it's YOU!

I win. No, I win. No you don't, I do. No, I win, again.


Pleeeease. . .

 

[General Lee]

Russ,


Please read Tony C's message---which is what I have been complaining about the whole time---yet you REFUSE to see it. Your Cockpit Jumpseat procedures SUK. Yes, they do. We allow your pilots in ours regardless of where they are based or which airline they feed------and you do not. That is the crux of this. You cannot seem to comprehend that. Maybe your six year old could.


Tony C,

I am sorry. It seems this is the ONLY way to debate good ole Russ. He needs repetition.


ILS to Mins,

Our 764's (hawaii and plenty of domestic flights out of ATL---to LAS, MCO, FLL, TPA, MIA, LAX, SLC, and even BOS and LGA), our 777s---ATL to MCO, LGW, FRA, NRT, and CDG, and our domestic 767ERs and INTL 767ERs---and the domestic ER's fly a lot to Florida and transcons from California to ATL, JFK, etc. If you pull up the flight on the 767 and it only has business Elite instead of first class---that plane is a domestic ER with 2 cockpit jumpseats.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[ILStoMinimums]

Russ,


Please read Tony C's message---which is what I have been complaining about the whole time---yet you REFUSE to see it. Your Cockpit Jumpseat procedures SUK. Yes, they do. We allow your pilots in ours regardless of where they are based or which airline they feed------and you do not. That is the crux of this. You cannot seem to comprehend that. Maybe your six year old could.


Tony C,

I am sorry. It seems this is the ONLY way to debate good ole Russ. He needs repetition.


ILS to Mins,

Our 764's (hawaii and plenty of domestic flights out of ATL---to LAS, MCO, FLL, TPA, MIA, LAX, SLC, and even BOS and LGA), our 777s---ATL to MCO, LGW, FRA, NRT, and CDG, and our domestic 767ERs and INTL 767ERs---and the domestic ER's fly a lot to Florida and transcons from California to ATL, JFK, etc. If you pull up the flight on the 767 and it only has business Elite instead of first class---that plane is a domestic ER with 2 cockpit jumpseats.



Bye Bye---General Lee

General Thanks.
I've jsed back from SVO to JFK last time. This time I want to do it both ways. Just to make sure the 767-300ER's going overseas to SVO have 2 JS's, correct? I got on last time, w/out any problems. There was one relief crew member on the flight also. Must be 2 then?

 

[General Lee]

ILS to mins,


Well, on the Domestic ER's there are two jumpseats and no relief pilot, so there would be two jumpseats. On INTL flights, since there is a relief pilot, I believe only one jumps is allowed----but that may not be the case. (I am a domestic 757/767 driver) Also, unless you are a Delta or DCI pilot---you couldn't sit up front anyway on INTL flights---so as long as there was a seat in the back--you would be fine. I don't think many people jumpseat between Moscow and JFK---so I think you would be able to make it. Just check the loads prior to make sure you have a good chance. Have fun.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Russ]

General

To the pilots of DAL, whom comprise a small percentage of the overall pilot population, sure I can see why they think DAL has a superior policy. When compared however to the entire JS eligible pilot population, at your own admission SkyWest has the better policy.
You could say you won a battle, with the DAL pilots not able to sit up front on UA SkyWest flights. I however won the war as the greater numbers are served by us than you.

Tony:
"You're trying to compare cockpit jumpseats with cabin jumpseats"

I recognize the argument he is trying to make.
Both policies must not be viewed by individual clauses, but by the sum of its parts.

 

[trip]

Just to clarify, SKYW pilots are not currently allowed to sit in the actual jumpseat on international flights. SKYW pilots are unable to list for the actual like other DCI's. Required per TSA.

 

[General Lee]

Trip,


That may be true on INTL flights, but you still would get priority to sit in the back if there is room on those INTL flights. (via the jumpseat)



Russ,

The cockpit jumpseat was my argument the whole time. It is great that you can allow umlimited jumpseaters in the back, and maybe we will have that soon also. But, my beef was about the double standard---allowing any of your pilots to sit upfront in the cockpit (when the back was full), and then you guys not reciprocating. That is huge, since a lot of your flights are full since you have less seats available on your aircraft. I am glad that you now notice that our cockpit jumpseat procedure is superior, and hopefully you guys will figure out how to make the process more advantageous to us---since we do allow you a "better chance" to make it home when our planes are full in the back.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Russ]

"The cockpit jumpseat was my argument the whole time"

One dimensional argument on your part. If I had to go pick up a JS policy and implement it today, balancing the good and the bad of both and with regard to all 121 eligible JS'ers SkyWest's is superior.

 

[General Lee]

Russ,

One dimensional, huh? I pointed that out initially---that I was talking about the cockpit jumpseat, and you decided to take to the other "dimensions." Where exactly do you think the "jumpseat" is? Is it in the back? Nope. You can give "free seats in back" to whoever youwant, but the jumpseat is upfront. You should know that! If I were to fly on one of your United RJs and it was full in the back, I would appreciate a seat in the cockpit----BUT YOU CAN'T GIVE ME ONE, EVEN THOUGH WE CAN GIVE ANY ONE OF YOUR PILOTS, REGARDLESS WHAT PLANE THEY FLY AND WHO THEY FEED, A SEAT IN OUR COCKPIT. YOU CANNOT DO THE SAME. THAT IS WRONG RUSS. Loud and clear Russ? You keep pointing out that you can allow more than one in the back, but what happens when you are full and you have that jumpseat upfront? If it were on us---we would let you sit in the cockpit..... Are you guys usually empty?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Russ]

For you general, there's always room up front... as long as its the same color as your jet and not that of your competition for whom you provide no positive return. That's a fact, wish you could, butcha can't.

I see this is a battle for the last word.

Your argument simply doesn't hold water as to why you should be allowed up front on a UA plane. I fully understand your argument, by this point and your numerous iterations of it I see the argument your making. Just because you put forth a salient point doesn't mean its a valid one. The way the actual JS is run these days is you have to have some connection to the guys who are carrying you. I do to DAL because I fly DAL passengers along with UAL ones. You don't as you don't carry any UAL pax that would allow you to use the same argument and claim some right to the privledge of a UEX JS. If in theory you had some business agreements with UA, then you might have a leg to stand on.
My personal opinion is you and everyone else should be allowed, but not on the strength of your argument. I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Looks like the opinions that matter at the top side with me.

 

[General Lee]

Russ,


Ok, well of course I want the last word. The main reason I even started this with you was because you were complaining about our jumpseat policy. I responded by saying that we were trying to fix it, and I still haven't figured out yet if we did ask for unlimited in the back. I will have to call Dalpa. Hopefully we did ask for it and we hopefully will get it. I think $5 billion should be enough to pay for that right. Also, I hope I pointed out to you that your own policy is not really a great one, and that no jumpseat policy will be "perfect" until everyone gets CASS and we all can allow unlimited jumpseaters in the back. That will be wonderful if it ever happens. So, once again----make sure that your own policy is perfect before complaining about another company's policy. Take care and good debate. You can have the last word if you want, unless you slam me---then I will have to respond.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Russ]

No nothing personal, simply the last word.

 

[General Lee]

Have a great night Russ.



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Russ]

Sleep well.