Delta Jumpseat Policy Question

[aa73]

Updated AA list

OK guys just did some checking into Sabre, and I stand corrected on the D6U (Unlimited) category:

-Southwest
-USAirways
-Alaska (not Horizon, sorry)
-Comair
-JetBlue

Looks like they added JB in September, welcome.

Again, our union jumpseat rep says that more reciprocating unlimiteds will be joining us in the near term.

Sorry for the confusion

aa73

 

[ProLine4]

By far the biggest obstacle on AA is the gate agent. God help you if you get a bad one, I swear some of them enjoy telling you "you cant get on because of <insert incorrect reason here>."

Once beyond that hurdle though, the crews and FAs are great. Thanks for the rides guys.

 

[airlinepilot]

The real truth!!!

The real truth is this: Delta pilots as a group had enough leverage to get the top pay scales in the industry.....Too bad they didn't care to use the same leverage to help there buddies that need a ride to work or home!!! Even in the latest pay-cut contract they didn't try to help their buddies out. It is no secret that post 911 commuting is harder...yet Delta basically thumbed their nose at their fellow pilots.... I always give them a ear full (very nicely) when I see them wanting a ride.....

 

[dojetdriver]

Another question about DAL JS;

If JS'ing on an int'l flight on a 2 JS airplane and one of the JS's is broke (deferred), does that prevent you cats from taking an offline guy even though there are seats in the back?

 

[General Lee]

airlinepilot,


That is ridiculous. We were lucky to get the jumpseat back after the 96 contract, and the jumpseat to Delta is sacrosanct. They don't want the other employees to get unions, so they don't want to show any favoritism. That is the truth, even though all of the non revs would get on anyway before any jumpseater in the back. That is the way Delta operates, and if you want to limit your own jumpseats to one or two per aircraft (since some of our planes have two cockpit jumpseats and on those we allow two)---then go ahead and do it. Make yourself feel great! Good for you. I have never seen a Delta jumpseater on our planes NOT give up his jumpseat to sit in the back if there was room. I just saw on Thanksgiving one of our guys give up his jumpseat so that a Mesa guy could get on.


As far as this last TA, we are working now on CASS and setting up a special reciprocal jumpseat deal with AA and Southwest initially. We're working on getting improvements, and by the way---we did raise the pay bar for everyone for three full years---which probably helped you out. You're welcome.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[airlinepilot]

Enough Said!

General......you can color it anyway you want....but Delta's JS restrictions speaks volumes without any comment by you or anyone else. Doesn't Delta own Comair/ASA....they don't restrict the JS.

 

[General Lee]

Airlinepilot,


You OBVIOUSLY don't know anything about Delta and it's "culture." The management guys do not want any other unions on the property, and they are very protective of those other employees. That said, they don't want anything to appear "unfair", even though any non rev can get on before any offline jumpseater. It really doesn't make any sense, but it is true. If you choose to ignore that, then fine. We are working on CASS, which is better than a lot of other airlines. We do offer 2 jumpseats on aircraft with two cockpit jumpseats, which is better than just one always. As far as ASA and Comair, they may have had that policy before Delta bought them, I don't know. If any of those employees ever want to come over to mainline eventually, they will do so knowing about our jumpseat policy. We had NO jumpseat before 1996, and to have more than one now on certain aircraft is a large improvement.

Complain all you want, but I know that most Delta pilots are helpful and try to "do good" by writing a pass if another jumpseater shows up.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Russ]

Post 9/11 as we settled in to the new norm, we (SkyWest) allowed D in the actual. All the while it was not reciprocated. The D guys would tell us how they thought it was a bum deal and management was to blame. Bottom line, the D guys (really W guys in that area) were getting to work. Low and behold as the Olympics approached and the back was full SkyWest said no more and laid down a deadline. Somehow, possibly by coincidence we were allowed back in to the actual just prior to implementing the stricter policy.
I know the lawn needs to be mowed, its the right thing to do to keep the association nazi's off my back, but somehow it never gets done till my wife threatens to shut off access, well, you get my point.

 

[General Lee]

Russ,

Your Skywest jumpseating policy $ucks. Last time I went through LA I had a Skywest jumpseater ask for a ride, and he flew out of Fresno on the United side. Do you know how much of a hassle it is to ride in the front of one of your United Skywest planes? We don't ususally ask your Skywest pilots "which Skywest do you fly for?" (The UAL side vs the DL side) We let any of your pilots up front, and we can't usually get the same from you guys without a major hassle and nearly begging the United gate agents to get you guys up to the gate or to call a dispatcher to verify employment. Bottomline, we allow ANY Skywest pilot in any of our jumpseats, and that is not the same on your side. That needs to be streamlined or we will have to start asking which base you fly out of---since only SLC serves the Delta side.......You really need to get that fixed and inform the United people that we are allowed in your jumpseat up front.



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Russ]

"since only SLC serves the Delta side"


Carried plenty'o D jump seaters out of DFW. Imagine I might again next week. Moot point in the future, but for now your statement is incorrect. Sorry, no your not allowed up front on the UA side. The CP sent out a memo a month ago and said no countermanding what he said earlier that might lead you to think you could. I believe more than anything its the company dragging its feet despite what it says, perhaps you should put some pressure on us and see if its works in reverse as it did for us.
All things said SkyWest still has a better JS policy than does D. Unlimited D pilots in the back of any SkyWest plane and if the airplane is the same color as yours you can ride up front. Can't say the same if if the situation is reversed. I imagine somehow you think D has a better policy, yes, no?

 

[Ty Webb]

Well, I have to say that Delta has always been very good to me J/Seating out of ATL when our own flights are full or too long of a wait, and tonight was no exception.

The first Delta guy offered to ride on a pass, and, then, after I was seated in business class, another Delta pilot got on board as well, apparently also deciding to ride on a pass to allow me to get home.

Thanks, guys . . . . it was appreciated!

 

[Russ]

I don't mean to sound as if I've received the short end from D when I JS. Sometimes however having less than a true recip agreement is trying when you are trying to get where your going knowing the other guy would suceed if it was on your airline.

 

[General Lee]

Russ,


Glad to see you are up to date on the DFW closing. There also aren't too many DFW based Skywest pilots, although a few are probably based there on reserve. I tried to erase the "SLC based pilots" part due to the fact that any jet base probably flies part of their trips on the Delta side. But, there is a problem with us allowing every one of your pilots on any of our jumpseats up front, and you guys not reciprocating. It is a double standard for sure. The reason I brought this up is because you like to preach to the chior that your crap don't stink, and then you can't see this huge gaping hole in your own procedures. Our pilots usually don't ask your pilots which airline you have been flying for during the last trip---because if we did and you just flew a trip for United---there might have been a chance that you couldn't allow a Delta pilot up front with you----and at the same time asking for a ride from us. We don't do that---and you guys do. Quit bit ching about our procedure of 1 or 2 jumpseaters depending on the plane. Your procedure isn't a good one either. Have a great night.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Russ]

Yup, could be better but its a heck of a sight better than Deltas. I can carry 50 D JS'ers on a UA flight. How many SkyWest JS'ers can you carry on a D flight?

No program is not without room for improvement, some simply are in greater need than others. I hope you don't find some level of equivalence in the pratfalls of our comparative systems, D is much more in need of overhaul. I understand much is out of the hands of the pilots. That is your out to blame management and move on.

"preach to the chior that your crap don't stink"

Refresh my memory if you would...when and where?

"Quit bit ching about our procedure of 1 or 2 jumpseaters depending on the plane"

Aye aye Admiral...but not without a parting shot. I won't complain as long as I'm occupying one of those seats. If I'm the third guy at the gate and the plane is otherwise wide open I might be a bit torqued off.

Enjoy your evening.

 

[General Lee]

Russ,

Ah, I had to come back for this one. You ask how many Skywest jumpseaters can go on our flights? Can't you guys write passes or use your pass cards now on our flights? If you could, which you can according to my Skywest friend there in SLC, you wouldn't need more than one jumpseat in the cockpit---because there would be open seats in the back! HA! I got you. We can't do that on United flights, but you can do it on either United or Delta, and any of your pilots can sit in any of our cockpits, but we can't sit in your United RJ cockpits. Sounds to me like your jumpseat policy is the one that needs to be fixed first.....If you are the third guy at the gate and there is a seat open in the back and two jumpseaters up front (in a 764), then you would use your pass card and get on.


Ty,

You guys have been great to us also. I have said it before, but one of your guys let me in the cockpit before 9-11 while he sat in the stew jumpseat. That was very nice.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[SizzleChest]

What is even more strange with AA's jumpseat is that American Connection CHQ has D6U while American Connection Transtates only has D6L.... both AAC carriers but according to the focus page, CHQ is unlimited but TSA is not..... hmmmmmm

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty,

You guys have been great to us also. I have said it before, but one of your guys let me in the cockpit before 9-11 while he sat in the stew jumpseat. That was very nice.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Yeah, but he had the legs for it . . . .

Seriously, I have sat on that seat to free up seats in the cabin, too. It's a lousy seat, to be sure, sandwiched between the lavs and the engines, but I think most of our guys would do it, certainly the commuters would!

 

[rogerroger]

General, Why didn't u guys negotiate unlimited jumpseats with your concession package. the company took 1 billion a year from you guys without giving you squat. surely giving you guys unlimited jumpseats would have been very fair, considering what they took from you. maybe D pilots just don't really give a !!#@$!

 

[aa73]

What is even more strange with AA's jumpseat is that American Connection CHQ has D6U while American Connection Transtates only has D6L.... both AAC carriers but according to the focus page, CHQ is unlimited but TSA is not..... hmmmmmm

That is really wierd.... but it really doesn't matter because if there are open seats, more than one American Connection pilot can write a pass. No need to jumpseat, am I right?

 

[Russ]

OK, general. Obvious we both are biased towards our respective systems. A better, impartial measure would be what someone who doesn't work for either of us says. A SWA guy tries to JS on a SkyWest flight and on a DAL flight. Multiple JS'ers waiting, wide open in the back of both aircraft. Who's system do you think he/she is going to think is superior?