Delta JFK announcements

[Sinca3]

From everyones favorite.....airliners.net:

Since we're close enough to the announcement tomorrow (and since I did a search and didn't see that anyone else had posted it), I thought I would share what I am hearing regarding JFK changes and service DL will be announcing tomorrow :

Nine new trans-Atlantic routes with nonstop service between JFK and:
Amman, Jordan (effective June 5)*;
Cairo, Egypt (effective June 4)*;
Edinburgh, Scotland (effective May 1);
Lagos, Nigeria (effective June 9)*;
Malaga, Spain (effective June 4)*;
Tel Aviv, Israel (effective March 10)*;
Dakar, Senegal (effective June 2)*;
Nairobi, Kenya (via Dakar) (effective June 2)*;
and Cape Town, South Africa (via Dakar) (effective June 3)*.

Five new Latin America routes with nonstop service between JFK and:
Guatemala City, Guatemala (effective Dec. 14);
Liberia, Costa Rica (effective Feb. 16)*;
Panama City, Panama (effective Dec. 13);
Port of Spain, Trinidad and Tobago (effective Dec. 20)*;
and San Jose, Costa Rica (effective Feb. 15)*.

The flights will be operated with a mix of Boeing 737-800, 757-200 and 767-300ER aircraft, with 737s and 757s serving Latin America and 757s and 767s flying across the Atlantic. The airline’s 2008 expansion will be aided by the introduction of 15 additional Boeing 757-200 airplanes on international routes. With the introduction of 757s in trans-Atlantic service, Boeing 767-300s serving short-haul routes will be freed up to serve long-haul destinations in Africa and the Middle East.

Also: as part of its plan to address congestion and delays at JFK, Delta will make the following changes before summer 2008:

Metering its use of airport resources by reducing average hourly departures by 6 percent during the most congested hours of 3:30-6:30 p.m.;

Decreasing departures during JFK’s afternoon ‘rush hour’ by shifting short-haul trans-Atlantic flights to a third bank of international departures after 7 p.m.;

Optimizing connecting times to increase transit time for JFK customers to enhance overall baggage performance and schedule reliability;

Increasing by 47 percent the number of Delta flights operated with larger two-class jets. Of the 204 daily departures at JFK planned for 2008, 60 percent will be operated with larger two-class aircraft seating between 70 and 270 passengers – up from 40 percent in summer 2007; and

Eliminating all Delta flights at JFK operated with turboprop aircraft.

Together, these changes will reduce Delta’s demands on limited airspace and airport resources until a comprehensive redesign of the New York airspace is funded by the federal government. Delta’s redesign will offer a more than 20 percent increase in available seat miles by summer 2008, with 11 more daily departures.

Enjoy!

 

[EMBpilot]

Good news, thanks for sharing.

 

[AKAAB]

Eliminating all Delta flights at JFK operated with turboprop aircraft.

That's going to help JFK out of this quagmire of delays.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

That means Jetblue can now jam up the skies like Airtran did when Delta dropped peak departures in ATL......

Let's hope not.....

 

[GBase24]

Dont see how thats a decrease really!!

 

[HomerJ]

That means Jetblue can now jam up the skies like Airtran did when Delta dropped peak departures in ATL......

Let's hope not.....

I think you'll find we'll be shifting some flying from JFK and reducing some flights during certain times as well. All good news IMO...

 

[lookin4better]

From everyones favorite.....airliners.net:

Since we're close enough to the announcement tomorrow (and since I did a search and didn't see that anyone else had posted it), I thought I would share what I am hearing regarding JFK changes and service DL will be announcing tomorrow :

Nine new trans-Atlantic routes with nonstop service between JFK and:
Amman, Jordan (effective June 5)*;
Cairo, Egypt (effective June 4)*;
Edinburgh, Scotland (effective May 1);
Lagos, Nigeria (effective June 9)*;
Malaga, Spain (effective June 4)*;
Tel Aviv, Israel (effective March 10)*;
Dakar, Senegal (effective June 2)*;
Nairobi, Kenya (via Dakar) (effective June 2)*;
and Cape Town, South Africa (via Dakar) (effective June 3)*.

Five new Latin America routes with nonstop service between JFK and:
Guatemala City, Guatemala (effective Dec. 14);
Liberia, Costa Rica (effective Feb. 16)*;
Panama City, Panama (effective Dec. 13);
Port of Spain, Trinidad and Tobago (effective Dec. 20)*;
and San Jose, Costa Rica (effective Feb. 15)*.

The flights will be operated with a mix of Boeing 737-800, 757-200 and 767-300ER aircraft, with 737s and 757s serving Latin America and 757s and 767s flying across the Atlantic. The airline’s 2008 expansion will be aided by the introduction of 15 additional Boeing 757-200 airplanes on international routes. With the introduction of 757s in trans-Atlantic service, Boeing 767-300s serving short-haul routes will be freed up to serve long-haul destinations in Africa and the Middle East.

Also: as part of its plan to address congestion and delays at JFK, Delta will make the following changes before summer 2008:

Metering its use of airport resources by reducing average hourly departures by 6 percent during the most congested hours of 3:30-6:30 p.m.;

Decreasing departures during JFK’s afternoon ‘rush hour’ by shifting short-haul trans-Atlantic flights to a third bank of international departures after 7 p.m.;

Optimizing connecting times to increase transit time for JFK customers to enhance overall baggage performance and schedule reliability;

Increasing by 47 percent the number of Delta flights operated with larger two-class jets. Of the 204 daily departures at JFK planned for 2008, 60 percent will be operated with larger two-class aircraft seating between 70 and 270 passengers – up from 40 percent in summer 2007; and

Eliminating all Delta flights at JFK operated with turboprop aircraft.

Together, these changes will reduce Delta’s demands on limited airspace and airport resources until a comprehensive redesign of the New York airspace is funded by the federal government. Delta’s redesign will offer a more than 20 percent increase in available seat miles by summer 2008, with 11 more daily departures.

Enjoy!

GREAT news!

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

I think you'll find we'll be shifting some flying from JFK and reducing some flights during certain times as well. All good news IMO...

My words were not a dig, just the last time Delta tried fixing the problem (that they created with RJ's and now turboprops), the solution was mitigated by Airtran jamming their own flights in the times we used to fly which, in turn, never really solved the problem....

I heard the feds weren't pleased and talked to Airtran about it, but then again, I wasn't in the room, so what was said could have been a gentle nudge to stop using the voluntary pulldown as a competitive advantage.

Again, Good news!!

 

[Kharma Police]

That means Jetblue can now jam up the skies like Airtran did when Delta dropped peak departures in ATL......

Let's hope not.....

I guess we should have asked for permission in using your airport. You know that all of Delta's "de-peaking" plan didn't mean a thing after the daily ground stops over the summer, nice thought though.

 

[Thedude]

Better bring your bullet proof vest for Lagos

 

[igneousy2]

I was just cruous what the practical range of the 767-300/400 are. The original post states that all of the flights will be operated with 737/757/767 aircraft JFK-Capetown comes in at 7,800 nm which seems a little far for a 767 to me.

thanks

 

[8vATE]

That means Jetblue can now jam up the skies like Airtran did when Delta dropped peak departures in ATL......

Let's hope not.....

If you knew ANYTHING you would know that DL JAMMED up JFK with a huge increase of Connection operations in the past 18 mos. Aviation Week had a big article on it a while back.

JetBlue's growth has been very predictable and very measured over time.

Bill Lumberg is just another blowhard mouthing off without that facts here on F.I.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

If you knew ANYTHING you would know that DL JAMMED up JFK with a huge increase of Connection operations in the past 18 mos. Aviation Week had a big article on it a while back.

JetBlue's growth has been very predictable and very measured over time.

Bill Lumberg is just another blowhard mouthing off without that facts here on F.I.

Hey 8avte or whatever,

Go and review my post after that one....it's called reading....you should try it sometime. I blamed Delta for the mess.......hiding behind your keyboard spewing names makes you so much more relevant to the discussion.....

Can anyone comprehend his last drunken sentence anyway??

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

I guess we should have asked for permission in using your airport. You know that all of Delta's "de-peaking" plan didn't mean a thing after the daily ground stops over the summer, nice thought though.

Kharma, there you go again....feeling insignifigant....

True or not?? You guys jammed up ATL when Delta rehubbed......(google it and you'll get the answer), but then again, let's not let facts get in the way of Kharma's continual struggle to right the wrongs since Delta didn't hire him.

 

[On Your Six]

Not surprising. Given that DAL has numerous vacancies on the 767ER out of JFK, it is quite possible that some newhires could be flying some of these routes. That certainly is some great variety.

If you are interested in international travel (not everyone cares or wants to fly internationally), certainly DAL and CAL would be two good choices out of the NYC area.

 

[GuppyPuppy]

Eliminating all Delta flights at JFK operated with turboprop aircraft.

This won't do a thing to help with the congestion problem. In fact, I think it will hurt it.

When JFK is departing 31L, I see that most of the DHC-8's are using 31R for departures. Now that all the T-props are replaced with jets, that will no longer be an option and all flights will be using 31L.

E

 

[MD11Drvr]

JFK (all of the NYC airports)is just a very over congested area. Its my least favorite place to waste taxi fuel. The only fix for me is try to avoid the place.

 

[Kharma Police]

Kharma, there you go again....feeling insignifigant....

True or not?? You guys jammed up ATL when Delta rehubbed......(google it and you'll get the answer), but then again, let's not let facts get in the way of Kharma's continual struggle to right the wrongs since Delta didn't hire him.

Too funny, your argument is that we (AirTran) didn't consult Delta regarding when we fly our planes in and out of ATL? You guys do 70% of the flying out of Atlanta and we are the problem? You don't think (perhaps, maybe), the addition of flights in Atlanta by the closing of DFW and shrinking of CVG had anything to do with the delays? I guess when all else fails, add capacity! It worked before (right)?!?

 

[G4G5]

This won't do a thing to help with the congestion problem. In fact, I think it will hurt it.

When JFK is departing 31L, I see that most of the DHC-8's are using 31R for departures. Now that all the T-props are replaced with jets, that will no longer be an option and all flights will be using 31L.

E

I agree, it's not as if DAL is going to eliminate the feed supplied by the turbo props. What they are saying is the addition of all these international routes is going to increase their feed, subsequently making the turboprop obsolete.

The problem comes when DAL determines that not all of these routes are guaranteed money makers and they decide to cancel their plans. Or in the case of places like Malaga and Edinburgh (seasonal at best) these places will not support 757 flights in the off season.

Then the need for the larger feed goes away and the turbo props return.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Too funny, your argument is that we (AirTran) didn't consult Delta regarding when we fly our planes in and out of ATL? You guys do 70% of the flying out of Atlanta and we are the problem? You don't think (perhaps, maybe), the addition of flights in Atlanta by the closing of DFW and shrinking of CVG had anything to do with the delays? I guess when all else fails, add capacity! It worked before (right)?!?

Let's see Kharma..

I want to understand you correctly. Delta shifts aircraft that they already have purchased, bought and flown on the property to a different airport, so they can compete, and then see the problems the shifting placed on the system. Delta then goes from 9 banks to 11 and you see fault in that???

So While Delta is trying to fix the problem, you guys punch in a bunch of flights in the "slow period", in turn, negating the fix. And that is fair?? Or is it Airtran's right to create more gridlock?? It is cutthroat out there and every bit helps, but your moves were undermining the fixes Delta was putting into place to help solve the problem, all the while
Airtran is buying up 737's like drunken sailors and blindly follow Captain Forklift Joe as he rapes and tries to plunder all of the smaller carriers around him........with nowhere to put the jets on order. Great Plan......

Kharma, chill out......I'm really really sorry that you were at ASA and Delta didn't hire you, but being springloaded to jump on every little thing Delta does as a negative wastes both your time and mine.

Good luck with the contract, get what's owed to you!!

 

[Kharma Police]

Let's see Kharma..

I want to understand you correctly. Delta shifts aircraft that they already have purchased, bought and flown on the property to a different airport, so they can compete, and then see the problems the shifting placed on the system. Delta then goes from 9 banks to 11 and you see fault in that???

So While Delta is trying to fix the problem, you guys punch in a bunch of flights in the "slow period", in turn, negating the fix. And that is fair?? Or is it Airtran's right to create more gridlock?? It is cutthroat out there and every bit helps, but your moves were undermining the fixes Delta was putting into place to help solve the problem, all the while
Airtran is buying up 737's like drunken sailors and blindly follow Captain Forklift Joe as he rapes and tries to plunder all of the smaller carriers around him........with nowhere to put the jets on order. Great Plan......

Kharma, chill out......I'm really really sorry that you were at ASA and Delta didn't hire you, but being springloaded to jump on every little thing Delta does as a negative wastes both your time and mine.

Good luck with the contract, get what's owed to you!!

Nice try, but you still can't ignore the fact that you do 70% of the flying out of Atlanta in an effort to try to keep market share. If the city imposed any slot restrictions you guys would get screwed. Look, you guys should stick to international flying and hope that JetBlue or some other LCC doesn't jump in and do the flights much cheaper.

As for getting hired at Delta while I was at ASA. You guys were in bankruptcy with thousands of pilots on furlough facing possible liquidation so unfortunately the pilot recruitment office was closed when I was desperately trying to leave ASA. But thanks for the sympathy, I will be sure and ask a early retired former Delta pilot on the crew bus for a recommendation.

p.s. do you still have your United Plus 1 sticker on your flight bag?

 

[General Lee]

Nice try, but you still can't ignore the fact that you do 70% of the flying out of Atlanta in an effort to try to keep market share. If the city imposed any slot restrictions you guys would get screwed. Look, you guys should stick to international flying and hope that JetBlue or some other LCC doesn't jump in and do the flights much cheaper.

As for getting hired at Delta while I was at ASA. You guys were in bankruptcy with thousands of pilots on furlough facing possible liquidation so unfortunately the pilot recruitment office was closed when I was desperately trying to leave ASA. But thanks for the sympathy, I will be sure and ask a early retired former Delta pilot on the crew bus for a recommendation.

p.s. do you still have your United Plus 1 sticker on your flight bag?

Guys like you think the pilots at Delta were at fault for our BK (I guess you missed the fact that Leo Mullin bought two BILLION worth of stock two weeks prior to 9-11 for a stock buy back program that evaporated). We were a fixed cost back then, something they knew all about. And would it be bad to make sure we are United Plus these days? I would hope we would be.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

I agree, it's not as if DAL is going to eliminate the feed supplied by the turbo props. What they are saying is the addition of all these international routes is going to increase their feed, subsequently making the turboprop obsolete.

The problem comes when DAL determines that not all of these routes are guaranteed money makers and they decide to cancel their plans. Or in the case of places like Malaga and Edinburgh (seasonal at best) these places will not support 757 flights in the off season.

Then the need for the larger feed goes away and the turbo props return.

CAL goes to Edinburgh year round from EWR, and Malaga could probably go three times a week in the Winter, which is actually a nice time of the year there. Our plan will probably evolve into a North-- South plan (more South American flying for their Summer and our Winter in the States) during our slower season, which would boost those flight departures to even later in the evening. We are looking into several cities in Brazil as we speak. You have to shift the flying around a bit to find profits.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Nice try, but you still can't ignore the fact that you do 70% of the flying out of Atlanta in an effort to try to keep market share. If the city imposed any slot restrictions you guys would get screwed. Look, you guys should stick to international flying and hope that JetBlue or some other LCC doesn't jump in and do the flights much cheaper.

As for getting hired at Delta while I was at ASA. You guys were in bankruptcy with thousands of pilots on furlough facing possible liquidation so unfortunately the pilot recruitment office was closed when I was desperately trying to leave ASA. But thanks for the sympathy, I will be sure and ask a early retired former Delta pilot on the crew bus for a recommendation.

p.s. do you still have your United Plus 1 sticker on your flight bag?

I STILL have the United plus sticker on my bag, because it meant SETTING THE BAR HIGHER. Something you have never been in a position to do until now......so go get it, we can point fingers all day, but you are in the driver's seat, don't let us( pilots) down...I'd love to put on a "lower case a plus" sticker on my bag.

Slot restrictions?? Why?? So Airtran can use the government to compete??? Sounds like you long for the days of running to mommy, excuse me, the Clinton Administration, anytime the airlines commonly referred to as "legacy" carriers used market strength and size and hub position to compete. You guys wanted the people out of the bus terminals and on your jets, well congrats, you've done it!! But stop knocking the very same carriers that helped build many of the same terminals and airspace you now occupy. It's not my fault Delta was flying WELL before you were buying our old planes and painting cartoon jets on them. We compete (not always well, I admit) by our age, size and market share, you guys compete by knocking us on all of your crew busses with your cute "wave at us" messages painted on the side.

Keep buying jets, and when you have nowhere to fly them, be sure to blame Delta for having too many planes or whatever else you deem our fault.

Said it before, I'll say it again....good luck with the contract.

 

[G4G5]

CAL goes to Edinburgh year round from EWR, and Malaga could probably go three times a week in the Winter, which is actually a nice time of the year there. Our plan will probably evolve into a North-- South plan (more South American flying for their Summer and our Winter in the States) during our slower season, which would boost those flight departures to even later in the evening. We are looking into several cities in Brazil as we speak. You have to shift the flying around a bit to find profits.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Have you spent any time on a beach, or been to a bull fight in Malaga. I have.

So now you are trying to tel me that the brain trusts in ATL know more then the Spanish? FYI, Iberia doesn't even do JFK direct to Malaga. The place is a ghost town off season. It's seasonal at best. In the summer time the loads will be fantastic but they will not carry the other 9 months of the year.

Edinburgh is another seasonal at best destination. I have spent weeks there at a time (family connection) and have spent summers taking corporate clients to the summer festival and the tattoo (google it). Now you are trying to tell me that the rocket scientist at DAL seem to feel that their is enough O&D to support a second direct flight to the NY area? Well then the know something that BA doesn't, because even BA doesn't fly direct (hence the reason why CAL is willing to scrape by). FYI BA had a direct flight and gave up on it.

 

[Kharma Police]

I STILL have the United plus sticker on my bag, because it meant SETTING THE BAR HIGHER. Something you have never been in a position to do until now......so go get it, we can point fingers all day, but you are in the driver's seat, don't let us( pilots) down...I'd love to put on a "lower case a plus" sticker on my bag.

Slot restrictions?? Why?? So Airtran can use the government to compete??? Sounds like you long for the days of running to mommy, excuse me, the Clinton Administration, anytime the airlines commonly referred to as "legacy" carriers used market strength and size and hub position to compete. You guys wanted the people out of the bus terminals and on your jets, well congrats, you've done it!! But stop knocking the very same carriers that helped build many of the same terminals and airspace you now occupy. It's not my fault Delta was flying WELL before you were buying our old planes and painting cartoon jets on them. We compete (not always well, I admit) by our age, size and market share, you guys compete by knocking us on all of your crew busses with your cute "wave at us" messages painted on the side.

Keep buying jets, and when you have nowhere to fly them, be sure to blame Delta for having too many planes or whatever else you deem our fault.

Said it before, I'll say it again....good luck with the contract.

Touched a nerve huh? Easy there, I thought Delta was just a paycheck to you? Face it you guys grew (just like us) on the misfourtunes of others. Who built, and was flying out of the "World Port" in JFK, how many pilots did you take from Eastern when you took over their gates on D? As far as "running to mommy", you are the one whining about little AirTran flying when we weren't "supposed" to.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Touched a nerve huh? Easy there, I thought Delta was just a paycheck to you? Face it you guys grew (just like us) on the misfourtunes of others. Who built, and was flying out of the "World Port" in JFK, how many pilots did you take from Eastern when you took over their gates on D? As far as "running to mommy", you are the one whining about little AirTran flying when we weren't "supposed" to.

A. it IS just a paycheck....

B. You guys took more Eastern people...an awful lot of them had perfect attendance....but I'll let that horse stay dead.

You're right, we all benefitted on one another's turmoil...and that sucks!!

C. Delta never went to the government to help open airports (DCA comes to mind)....or cry anti-trust...except when Wichita tossed bags of cash in your lap in the guise of subsidies just for the "privilege" of an Airtran route and cheap ticket source.

 

[lowecur]

JBLU will receive just about all it wants at JFK if the FAA or Congress has to step in. They were the flagship carrier willing to do business at the airport when all the others were turning up their nose.

DL & CAL don't have a leg to stand on with their scheduling. All this crap about small towns losing service is just that. Most of the RJ's/props are from midsized and large metro's that say they want frequency. It's all about protecting gates at the larger airports and knocking JBLU down a few pegs.

The legacy's have protected their hubs, and now they all want a piece of JBLU's hub. When the dust clears, all the props and many of the <50 seaters will be gone from JFK.

imp: ​

 

[General Lee]

Have you spent any time on a beach, or been to a bull fight in Malaga. I have.

So now you are trying to tel me that the brain trusts in ATL know more then the Spanish? FYI, Iberia doesn't even do JFK direct to Malaga. The place is a ghost town off season. It's seasonal at best. In the summer time the loads will be fantastic but they will not carry the other 9 months of the year.

Edinburgh is another seasonal at best destination. I have spent weeks there at a time (family connection) and have spent summers taking corporate clients to the summer festival and the tattoo (google it). Now you are trying to tell me that the rocket scientist at DAL seem to feel that their is enough O&D to support a second direct flight to the NY area? Well then the know something that BA doesn't, because even BA doesn't fly direct (hence the reason why CAL is willing to scrape by). FYI BA had a direct flight and gave up on it.

That's great that you have been to Malaga. I have been to Barcelona and Madrid, so I guess I can't even FATHOM what you know.....? Hey, our route planning guru's at Delta (Heauenstein and Cortelu---actually really smart people) know what they are doing, and I don't even know if it runs full year. The good thing is that we are getting 15 new 757ERs from AA that allow us to downgage a flight in a slower season. We haven't been able to do that before, since we only had 767ERs and bigger before. Now we can serve a city year round IF WE WANT TO, without taking a huge hit like we were before in the Winter season. GOOD FOR US, right?

Next comes Edinburgh. Well, we are cutting the nonstop 767ER from ATL for the Winter, and starting the JFK flight next Spring I believe. Is that good enough for you? How does CAL fly to Belfast, Bristol, Birmingham, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Shannon, Dublin, Manchester, and Gatwick all year round (in the Summer they often double the frequency)????? They seem to be doing well. Also, with feed from other cities, you don't just need local NYC traffic to feed one route. Do we have feed in JFK? Ummm, yes we do. You need to come off your "expert" talk and realize we have people paid to do your thinking. I wouldn't doubt that in the slow season we would trade SOME frequency for sunny skies down south. We are looking at Salvador de bahia in Brazil, and maybe a few more warmer cities. I bet they will do well in our Winter if we do it. Leave it to the experts please.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

JBLU will receive just about all it wants at JFK if the FAA or Congress has to step in. They were the flagship carrier willing to do business at the airport when all the others were turning up their nose.

DL & CAL don't have a leg to stand on with their scheduling. All this crap about small towns losing service is just that. Most of the RJ's/props are from midsized and large metro's that say they want frequency. It's all about protecting gates at the larger airports and knocking JBLU down a few pegs.

The legacy's have protected their hubs, and now they all want a piece of JBLU's hub. When the dust clears, all the props and many of the <50 seaters will be gone from JFK.

imp: ​

You said Delta was going to loose the gates in LA too, didn't you? You were wrong. Delta has plenty of high paid lawyers and lobbyists to help things go our way.

As far as props and 50 seaters leaving JFK, that may be true, but 76 seat RJs will fill in. Also, it will have to be equitable, and that means Jetblue will also have to take a hit. Maybe they will move the other flights to their new base in.......in.......STL?


Bye Bye--General Lee