Delta is going to sell Comair, yeah right!!!!!

[doh]

Wow, I did not realize that the General hates us so much. Good natured tounge in cheek is one thing but to get that vicious. General, are you ex military. Those guys are usually the ones who spew the hate. And I thought you were really interested in solutions. It just goes to show...

 

[MedFlyer]

Ream-boat,
OBVIOUSLY you don't know what really happened there. We had a very very large base there at one time, with 1700 pilots and many many aircraft types. We used to do well there, but after 9-11 happened, we parked some Express 737s (due ot the FOs getting furloughed), and then readjusted our fleet. When we started Song we had to move 757s out of mainline and then move other airplanes up to cover for those missing mainline 757s. Someone decided that RJs would cover DFW just as well as 737-300s or MD-90s on some routes----and boy oh boy were they wrong. Passengers (especially business passengers) really hated flying them long distances---like to SNA and ONT, or OAK and DCA---and the place fell apart. It just proved a plane---the RJ---50 or 70 seater---cannot save a base. Yeah, we used to make a lot of money in DFW, but then an airplane swap sealed the deal. Have a great night Sarge.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Obviously, you don't know what happened. DL routinely lost money at DFW throughout all the years. DL lost money at DFW for 9 out of the last 12 years which means DL was losing money at DFW long before 9/11. DL was losing money at DFW even when there were 200 mainline flights.

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/9617144.htm

"Delta has lost money for nine of the last 12 years at D/FW, and the hub has long been regarded as its poorest-performing operation."

It's scary how uninformed and misguided some pilots are about the company they work for.

 

[General Lee]

Medflyer,


I never gave a specific date on when we were profitable, so there. We OBVIOUSLY WERE PROFITABLE at some point---we had 1700 pilots based there at one time. The last ditch effort to save DFW with RJs led to an even faster closing. What have we learned from this last ditch effort? Don't use RJs to cover for mainline aircraft, the majority of business people dislike flying on them on long flights.


But, since we are leaving DFW and you guys want so desperately to go independent, maybe you guys should start your own DFW hub---like Indy Air. Great idea. Everybody loved the fact that Indy broke off from United and "went for it"---and subsequently was smacked.




Doh,

No, I don't hate all Comair pilots, and no---I wasn't an Ex-military pilot. There are a few people on this board that like to think their shiznit don't stink, but other than that I think most average Comair line pilots are swell. Now, as for the Comair MEC, Lawson in particular, and the Ford bunch with the RJDC---well, that might be a different story. I guess we all have our own opinions, and mine is fairly well known. Have a good one.



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[bvt1151]

Medflyer,


I never gave a specific date on when we were profitable, so there.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Now you're reaching, General.

 

[XRMEFLYER]

Now you're reaching, General.

NOW he's reaching? Everything that roothugger says is a reach. "They used to have 1700 pilots in DFW so they must have been profitable." Wrong Oracle of Atlanta all that means is that it used to lose more money than it does now.

GFYS Private!

 

[surplus1]

But, since we are leaving DFW and you guys want so desperately to go independent, maybe you guys should start your own DFW hub---like Indy Air. Great idea. Everybody loved the fact that Indy broke off from United and "went for it"---and subsequently was smacked.

General ..... not DFW or any of the other places in your previous post. How about CVG? With just a little bit of effort we could make that one unprofitable for you too. Maybe the people of Cincy would love an LCC, operated by their hometown airline.

Maybe you should bid international, I wouldn't want you to wind up with nothing to do.

There are a few people on this board that like to think their shiznit don't stink,

Well, you got that right, and 90% of them are employed by Delta Air Lines. It's interesting to reflect on how your "new generation" has turned the once proud "gentlemen of Delta" into a collection of low class, pompus and supercilious whiners. Too bad the old timers couldn't prevent the barrel from being contaminated by the bad apples. It sure doesn't take long to go from respectable to riff raff. Pity.

 

[MedFlyer]

Medflyer,

I never gave a specific date on when we were profitable, so there. We OBVIOUSLY WERE PROFITABLE at some point---we had 1700 pilots based there at one time.

Who cares how many pilots you had based there? That's no sign of profitability. TWA had thousands of pilots based at STL, yet they routinely lost money. The DFW hub was a loser from the day it was started to the day it was closed.

The last ditch effort to save DFW with RJs led to an even faster closing.

What a load of BS! If RJ's had not been around, the DFW hub would have closed shortly after 9/11. You said yourself that DL had to pullmany mainline planes out of DFW to cover other areas after 9/11. What would have replaced those mainline planes if not for RJ's? Was DL going to fly EMB120's from DFW to SNA?

What have we learned from this last ditch effort? Don't use RJs to cover for mainline aircraft, the majority of business people dislike flying on them on long flights.

On this point we basically agree. RJ's can't fix mainline problems. DL mainline was a broken product...a combination of skyrocketing costs and declining service. Instead of fixing these problems, DL management and DALPA stuck their heads in the sand.

 

[ASADFW7]

I am tired of reading blame the friggen CRJ they are the reason Delta is losing money. DFW would be profitable it the Delta boys still had it in their back pocket. They never did.

I would welcome some truth here.

 

[surplus1]

I would welcome some truth here.

Don't expect that from the General. He lives in his own little fantasy world of what used to be. He bought into an illusion of grandeur and it didn't turn out like he expected. Now he can't deal with it.

 

[HowlinMadMurdoc]

Uh oh, now you've done it. The Oracle, er, General will be along shortly to educate us all, based on his years (or months) of reading WSJ and IBD, that DFW WAS profitable because, by golly, DL had 1700 pilots based there. Isn't that a sure sign of making money? I'm still wondering how someone can sleep through their entire Econ/Accounting/Bus Finance class in college and still graduate.

Ever heard of the corporate finance term, "operational loss", what it means, and how it fits into the overall corporate financial structure?

Too funny.

HMM

 

[XRMEFLYER]

Don't expect that from the General. He lives in his own little fantasy world of what used to be. He bought into an illusion of grandeur and it didn't turn out like he expected. Now he can't deal with it.

That or... he's just a dik!

 

[dgarro]

General lee

Go and ride your own snake, Maybe one day I could meet you so I could smack you!!! Later dgarro

 

[General Lee]

Surplus1,


What are you talking about? I still love my job. I am still paid fairly well (since I don't have much debt at all---no kids, medium sized house North of ATL with average monthly payments) and I fly what I want to where I want, in really nice planes. I have some great SAN layovers this month. Dinner in the Gas Lamp district, a run each morning near Seaport Village, and then one leg home late in the afternoon. Next month I have long San Juan layovers---but I probably won't be doing as much running!



Howlin,

We obviously had some profitable years, just not the last bunch. The RJ hub did not do a better job of keeping passengers, and in fact alienated many more.
There have been plenty of articles stating that fact, and from our best customers. RJs are good for certain stage lengths, but not over a certain amount--like 2 hours. That was addressed by Grinstein, yet for some reason he still places them on some long flights. Why? We don't have the mainline equipment available currently.



Medflyer,

Oh, I guess I didn't know about TWA having so many pilots and being unprofitable. Thanks Professor. And flying E120s from DFW to SNA? I am surprised it wasn't tried. I bet some of you guys would do it, though. What would have replaced some of those 757s that were transferred to Song? Well, at that time we still had some money, and we could have bought some used Boeings probably. National Airlines of LAS had just gone bankrupt, so we could have picked up some used 757s for cheap and kept some mainline aircraft there. The RJs in DFW just didn't bring in enough feed to fill our other planes. It almost seemed like RJs were feeding RJs, and at low fares to compete with AA. Not good.


Reamy,

I thought you were in the Military? Quit talking about my dik---you know you can't do that. Quit obsessing, and I am not that way.....sorry.


dgarro,

What? Ok........? Riiiiiiggght.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[79%N1]

How come........

The Big Boy 'Major' mainline guys always say when their parent company (Read Delta, USAIR, United, here) loses money, and is in debt on the brink of bankrupcy that it is NOT pilot salary costs that is to blame (which I mostly agree with), but it is overall management/mismanagement, etc......to blame for the debt.

BUT.............

Concerning Regional (RJ) Pilots ------- It is our (meager) salaries that make us uncompetitive with the likes of Mesa, CHQ, etc......????

This doesnt make sense! Either pilot costs are directly the cause of a companies fiscal woes, or they arent. Its so funny how GEN LEE, FDJ2, et al extoll how it is Comairs overpaid pilots (LOL) that hurt their chances for future growth within DCI or as an independant company, and may EVEN REFLECT NEGATIVELY ON DELTAS BOTTOM LINE!!!! But mainline salaries ARE NEVER a factor in their companies woes!!!!! HYPOCRITICAL at best, laughable at worst!

 

[Heavy Set]

How come........

The Big Boy 'Major' mainline guys always say when their parent company (Read Delta, USAIR, United, here) loses money, and is in debt on the brink of bankrupcy that it is NOT pilot salary costs that is to blame (which I mostly agree with), but it is overall management/mismanagement, etc......to blame for the debt.

BUT.............

Concerning Regional (RJ) Pilots ------- It is our (meager) salaries that make us uncompetitive with the likes of Mesa, CHQ, etc......????

This doesnt make sense! Either pilot costs are directly the cause of a companies fiscal woes, or they arent. Its so funny how GEN LEE, FDJ2, et al extoll how it is Comairs overpaid pilots (LOL) that hurt their chances for future growth within DCI or as an independant company, and may EVEN REFLECT NEGATIVELY ON DELTAS BOTTOM LINE!!!! But mainline salaries ARE NEVER a factor in their companies woes!!!!! HYPOCRITICAL at best, laughable at worst!

Don't blame the Delta for future pay cuts - blame JetBlue. The new E190 rates make your Comair rates look expensive in comparison - that's just a fact. Regardless of your "relative" income vs. Delta or other majors, your rates will be compared with those of JetBlue or other 50-70 seat operators and it is difficult to justify "high" rates on the CRJ-200 when the E190 will have 50 more seats and yet considerably lower pay... Management will not compare Comair rates to Delta rates - they will look for "comparables" in terms of aircraft size and routes. With Mesa, CHQ and Skywest and now JetBlue lowering the bar even more with bigger aircraft, don't expect to be left out in the wage-reduction trend....