Delta furloughing more?

[Spooky 1]

Delta has announced that they will get rid of about 43 B737 300/200's between now and September 2006. What impact will that have on their manning? Are there more furloghs to come?

 

[737 Pylt]

Delta has announced that they will get rid of about 43 B737 300/200's between now and September 2006. What impact will that have on their manning? Are there more furloghs to come?

As of now there are no plans to furlough. My guess is that it depends on how the a/c lease negotiations go. I have heard that they are going extremely well. If they can get leases down to more reasonable prices, then there probably won't be any, however that being said, I know we have sent 4 MD88's to the bone yard.
I know that doesn't help, sorry!
737

 

[michael707767]

Delta has announced that they will get rid of about 43 B737 300/200's between now and September 2006. What impact will that have on their manning? Are there more furloghs to come?

The advance entitlement that closed back in Oct already accounted for the closing of the 737 categories. It left some of the 88 FO categories a bit overstaffed, but not much.

PS 737pylt I was told the 88s in the desert will likely be coming back. Those leases are not settled yet, and there is not a huge market for used MD80s in the world. I don't see those lessors failing to reach a deal.

 

[Networ-King]

Talked to my old sim partner last night and he told me that he flew with one of the negotiators last week on the 800. He told my buddy that they expect there will be 300 furloughs at Delta in the near future. THERE IS NOTHING OFFICIAL, but its better to plan for the worst and hope for the best. Sad thing is,there are 88 FO's that are flying greenslips now. Gottal love the unity.

 

[L'il J.Seinfeld]

Wow. The junior guys will take a 14% pay cut on their way out the door! How in the heck can the Delta guys approve this TA when they know they will be furloughed in a few months? There is no possible way that an airline can operate in bankruptcy with 43 airplane's worth of pilots on the payroll that were needed now and not needed next Sept. That is certainly not fair to the taxpayers. This TA sounds like the junior guys take a pay cut right before a furlough so that all the 50 somethings will make 140K instead of 200k.

 

[AAflyer]

And as another poster said, all this for a temporary TA that would then go to binding arbitration(ask the Alaska pilots how they feel about that experience) if a final settlement can not be met.

AA

 

[DAL737FO]

Who knows what to believe now a days. The movement from parking the classic 737's and the 767-200's has already been accounted for. The crew resources guru testified under oath that we will be approx. 170-180 pilots heavy at the end of the training cycle (Oct 06). The problem is we have people quiting and a lot more people putting in for Military leave of absence. We had a 737-800 FO, a 1999 hire, that went into the Chief pilots office a couple of weeks ago to put in for a personal leave of absence. He was told that it wouldn't be approved because of the manning level of his category. In his other hand he had his resignation letter. He is now my hero.

 

[typhoonpilot]

One thing to remember in regards to furloughs is that there is a break-even time for furlough duration. In other words, if you furlough 300 hundred guys for one year it could actually cost you more than keeping them on the payroll. The reason is for things like severance pay, unemployment benefits, and the biggy, re-training all the other remaining pilots. At USAirways I believe they came up with a figure of 18 months as the break-even point. So the number of future retirements becomes the key question in terms of additional furloughs. If Delta will be losing/retiring 300 pilots over the next 18 month period a furlough would probably not save any money.

TP

 

[densoo]

One thing to remember in regards to furloughs is that there is a break-even time for furlough duration. At USAirways I believe they came up with a figure of 18 months as the break-even point.

That brings back memories. Spring of 2003, CAL won't furlough unless it's for 18 months, those at the bottom of the list are safe.

Too bad no one told management. 200 pilots furloughed in May 03, recalled May 04.

 

[COpilot]

Remind me what a "green-slip" is to you guys?

Is that what we call "picking up open time", can you do that yourself on the computer, or do you have to go though scheds?

 

[Launchpad]

Remind me what a "green-slip" is to you guys?

Is that what we call "picking up open time", can you do that yourself on the computer, or do you have to go though scheds?

Yes, except green slips pay double... maybe 1.5 now, not sure. There is an argument that picking up green slips with guys on furlough prevents recalls/jobs. Some say it doesn't matter, some say it does....

As I sit here without a paycheck-

 

[Jomama]

If your picking up open time with guys on furlough then you suck!
Your acting like a scab!!!!
Your F&(king guys on your own seniority list!

 

[Jomama]

What's up with the DAL retired guys that came back to SCAB...sorry I meant contract fly? Are they still on the property?

 

[Launchpad]

What's up with the DAL retired guys that came back to SCAB...sorry I meant contract fly? Are they still on the property?

Yes, until the end of the month... except for 12 check airmen.

Don't even get me started on that topic.

 

[satpak77]

What's up with the DAL retired guys that came back to SCAB...sorry I meant contract fly? Are they still on the property?

I think THAT is some major BULL-SH**

that is just wrong

 

[GogglesPisano]

How many total furloughees are there?

What's the latest with the 100-seaters? Does management want unlimited 79-seaters for Connection carriers in lieu of 100-seaters at mainline?

Hopefully you guys won't have to give up scope and there will be hiring at mainline again someday. Good luck, Delta pilots!

 

[AA717driver]

AAflyer--I'm guessing you weren't pushing baseball-style arbitration? TC

 

[castle bravo]

The reason is for things like severance pay, unemployment benefits, and the biggy, re-training all the other remaining pilots.


Don't count on furlough pay. NWA managed to hose ALL of it's furloughees out of furlough pay, and that was before they filed Ch11.

 

[Spooky 1]

Yes, until the end of the month... except for 12 check airmen.

Don't even get me started on that topic.

I am not really familiar with all the nuances of this contract abberation, but I can speak from experience that it takes forever to get a pilot certified as a LCP at Delta and most of this is driven by the FAA's availabilty for checking. Also, as I recall ALPA approved this deviation. I really do not think these pilots need to be called SCABS as they certainly do not fit that definition and this type of name calling only serves to further divide the pilots of Delta.

Launchpad, these comments are directed at you but a previous poster.

 

[Helos2Galaxy]

Although most say that picking up a green slip prevents a guy from coming back; I disagree. Under cetain circumstances when scheduling has to abide by the number of bubbas on reserve or a two hour call out window, if a green slip wasn't offered the flight would be canx.

Revenue is certainly precious at this point.

That being said, I have only flown one in my career and it was prior to 9/11 with nobody furloughed.

 

[AAflyer]

AAflyer--I'm guessing you weren't pushing baseball-style arbitration? TC

Not in a million years.. I actually lobbied against in DC a few years ago.
That will truly put the nail inthe coffin.

See Ya,

AAuke:

 

[Pinto]

Retired Pilots Still Flying?

I was wondering how many early retired pilots are still flying? If so is there a plan to get everyone in there final seat to avoid additional pilots on the street? Hopefully that was part of the TA agreement.

 

[General Lee]

I was wondering how many early retired pilots are still flying? If so is there a plan to get everyone in there final seat to avoid additional pilots on the street? Hopefully that was part of the TA agreement.

As of December 31st of this year, there will be 12 left (all under the age of 60), and they will be gone by the end of Feb of 2006. Those 12 have some great importance when it comes to Line Check pilots, I guess.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[atlcrashpad]

I hope that there are no furloughs planned in the future. How far back does the current furloughs go? ie. hire date? Are there plans to return them in the near future?

 

[tbkane]

there are 475 "official furloughees" dating back to somewhere in late 2000 to early 2001 ish. There is no word of us coming back now or in the near or distant future as they have put all recalls on hold since October. Rumor and I say rumore only is that maybe another 300 but that is just what I read here and on the alpa board.

 

[DTW320]

Don't count on furlough pay. NWA managed to hose ALL of it's furloughees out of furlough pay, and that was before they filed Ch11.

The first post 9/11 furloughs got hosed out of furlough pay via force majure but the recent NW furloughees are receiving furlough pay now...

 

[General Lee]

I hope that there are no furloughs planned in the future. How far back does the current furloughs go? ie. hire date? Are there plans to return them in the near future?

TBKANE is correct. The word is that there COULD be up to 300 furloughs by the end of 2007, but that could be mitigated by the people who may leave anyway to get away from Delta. The current lease negotiations have gone well so far supposedly, so that may delay any near term furloughs. The company is currently denying that they plan to furlough anyone right now.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Networ-King]

Although most say that picking up a green slip prevents a guy from coming back; I disagree. Under cetain circumstances when scheduling has to abide by the number of bubbas on reserve or a two hour call out window, if a green slip wasn't offered the flight would be canx.

Revenue is certainly precious at this point.

That being said, I have only flown one in my career and it was prior to 9/11 with nobody furloughed.

RRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!

Is that what you have to tell yourself inorder to justify picking up open time or are being honest when you say you haven't picked one up since the furlough's? Drop me your name and I'll look up your schedule in DBMS and we'll go from there..... If you are telling the truth then you probably heard that from a douchebag captain trying to justify why he/she is greenslipping. All these A$$holes keep telling all the furloughed guys to be professional, just be professional and yet they keep picking up opentime because they have kids in school, or wife needs new tits or they need the money for their sex change operation....... same $hit that the eastern SCABS said and yet we're suppose to pretend that this is different because ALPO says its ok. WELL ITS NOT F$%*%&G OK..... let em cancel flight after flight till they get their heads out of the A$$E$ and bring back the furloughed guys to cover the cnxd flights..... then go and fly yourself into an early grave with all the greenslips you can handle, but you sound just like that dikhead of a prp I ran into at the airport, his excuse was that if he didn't do it then someone else would..... now thats rich..... retired with lump sum, back at delta AS A CAPTAIN AND FLYING GREENSLIPS.... while TBKANE is still on the street. Don't get me wrong I don't ever want to have anything to do with that POS airline, but I still have plenty of buddies that would love to go back and the PRP's and the Greenslipping whores are keeping them from being recalled. Now tell us another "good" excuse to stick up for these pricks!!!!!!!! And remember......these A$$holes might have kids in expensive schools and operations and whatever the excuse may be...... the guys on furlough have the same problems..... kids in schools, putting FOOD on the table, mortgages, rents, bills.....etc. and yet they can't go back to their careers because of some greedy backstabbing pukes. PROFESSIONALISM? Your kidding right?????

GREENSLIP AWAY "MY...EERRRR.... SOMEBODY ELSES ALPA BROTHERS AND SISTER" GREENSLIP AWAY

 

[737 Pylt]

RRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!

Is that what you have to tell yourself inorder to justify picking up open time or are being honest when you say you haven't picked one up since the furlough's? Drop me your name and I'll look up your schedule in DBMS and we'll go from there..... If you are telling the truth then you probably heard that from a douchebag captain trying to justify why he/she is greenslipping. All these A$$holes keep telling all the furloughed guys to be professional, just be professional and yet they keep picking up opentime because they have kids in school, or wife needs new tits or they need the money for their sex change operation....... same $hit that the eastern SCABS said and yet we're suppose to pretend that this is different because ALPO says its ok. WELL ITS NOT F$%*%&G OK..... let em cancel flight after flight till they get their heads out of the A$$E$ and bring back the furloughed guys to cover the cnxd flights..... then go and fly yourself into an early grave with all the greenslips you can handle, but you sound just like that dikhead of a prp I ran into at the airport, his excuse was that if he didn't do it then someone else would..... now thats rich..... retired with lump sum, back at delta AS A CAPTAIN AND FLYING GREENSLIPS.... while TBKANE is still on the street. Don't get me wrong I don't ever want to have anything to do with that POS airline, but I still have plenty of buddies that would love to go back and the PRP's and the Greenslipping whores are keeping them from being recalled. Now tell us another "good" excuse to stick up for these pricks!!!!!!!! And remember......these A$$holes might have kids in expensive schools and operations and whatever the excuse may be...... the guys on furlough have the same problems..... kids in schools, putting FOOD on the table, mortgages, rents, bills.....etc. and yet they can't go back to their careers because of some greedy backstabbing pukes. PROFESSIONALISM? Your kidding right?????

GREENSLIP AWAY "MY...EERRRR.... SOMEBODY ELSES ALPA BROTHERS AND SISTER" GREENSLIP AWAY

OUCH!
Networking:
I hear ya. I was in the JS of an MD11 going to MCO (back in 2002) and the other J'seater with me (a fully loaded plane so we were both in the cockpit) was on his last rotation before being furloughed, while the captain was bragging how he was on a 2 day "green slip" rotation. I had nothing to say, I felt bad for the f/o about to be furloughed. However, like we've heard from the union, it is their contractual right.
737
NEVER greenslipped a day in all my years with DL.

 

[OUT]

RRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!

Is that what you have to tell yourself inorder to justify picking up open time or are being honest when you say you haven't picked one up since the furlough's? Drop me your name and I'll look up your schedule in DBMS and we'll go from there..... If you are telling the truth then you probably heard that from a douchebag captain trying to justify why he/she is greenslipping. All these A$$holes keep telling all the furloughed guys to be professional, just be professional and yet they keep picking up opentime because they have kids in school, or wife needs new tits or they need the money for their sex change operation....... same $hit that the eastern SCABS said and yet we're suppose to pretend that this is different because ALPO says its ok. WELL ITS NOT F$%*%&G OK..... let em cancel flight after flight till they get their heads out of the A$$E$ and bring back the furloughed guys to cover the cnxd flights..... then go and fly yourself into an early grave with all the greenslips you can handle, but you sound just like that dikhead of a prp I ran into at the airport, his excuse was that if he didn't do it then someone else would..... now thats rich..... retired with lump sum, back at delta AS A CAPTAIN AND FLYING GREENSLIPS.... while TBKANE is still on the street. Don't get me wrong I don't ever want to have anything to do with that POS airline, but I still have plenty of buddies that would love to go back and the PRP's and the Greenslipping whores are keeping them from being recalled. Now tell us another "good" excuse to stick up for these pricks!!!!!!!! And remember......these A$$holes might have kids in expensive schools and operations and whatever the excuse may be...... the guys on furlough have the same problems..... kids in schools, putting FOOD on the table, mortgages, rents, bills.....etc. and yet they can't go back to their careers because of some greedy backstabbing pukes. PROFESSIONALISM? Your kidding right?????

GREENSLIP AWAY "MY...EERRRR.... SOMEBODY ELSES ALPA BROTHERS AND SISTER" GREENSLIP AWAY

What do you think about the newhire UPS A-300 F/O that is a Delta 757/767 early retirement captain? Do you think he should have taken the job at UPS or left it for someone younger and give them the chance to work for a major?