Delta Connection EMB175s

[~~~^~~~]

Starting out as a new-hire on the EMB175, would be one heck of a lot nicer than the DC-9, IMHO. Hence my frustration with our ALPA leadership.

How frustrated would you be if you started with the 767 and got to go to school 3 times on the way down to the DC9?

No thanks. Give me a DC-9 for mainline pay any day over a new shiny pushbutton jet for 23 bucks an hour.

Delta has mainline pay for the E series jet. The 14 extra seats would more than pay the wages of a mainline crew.

The really ugly part of this is that ALPA believes low wages at the regionals result in bigger corporate profits that management magnanimously gives to mainline pilots.

ALPA being run as an apartied systems of designated favored pilots and non-favored pilots is just flat wrong.

Both sides lose in this deal and I believe the mainline side loses as much if not more than the regional side. IMO this is why ALPA REFUSES to use their economic and financial analysis experts to study the effect.

 

[MCOE175]

Shuttle will not be modified per the communication between DALPA and our management and Shuttle America's management.

According to some MX people and FAA approval the mod was completed but the aircraft are limited per the DL scope. In other words the MTOW is still restricted to the old weights.

 

[Superpilot92]

According to some MX people and FAA approval the mod was completed but the aircraft are limited per the DL scope. In other words the MTOW is still restricted to the old weights.

if they were converted then they are in violation regardless of whether or not they are being flown under the new weights or not.

 

[SpauldingSmails]

Part of the conversion (as far as I've seen) includes the installation of a placard that reads "MTOW=89,000lb", its located behind the left seat on the bulkhead above the stowed jumpseat.

The dataplates located under the tail cone also indicate "ERJ-170-200AR" and superseded the "LR" designation. Without the dataplate, I don't believe the conversion would be complete. I'm not sure about the cockpit placard. Would seem to be easy enough to check.

 

[FBN0223]

No thanks. Give me a DC-9 for mainline pay any day over a new shiny pushbutton jet for 23 bucks an hour.

The EMB175 would be at mainline pay if it was a Delta aircraft. That's the whole point.

 

[FBN0223]

How frustrated would you be if you started with the 767 and got to go to school 3 times on the way down to the DC9?

Starting out in the right seat of a B767 flying JFK to Europe would be quite a treat. And you're right, it would be difficult to get bounced all the way down to the right seat of a DC-9. I'd rather see our junior Delta B767 First Officers get bumped down to Captain on the EMB-175 at mainline wages. Thanks for emphasizing my point.

 

[General Lee]

No thanks. Give me a DC-9 for mainline pay any day over a new shiny pushbutton jet for 23 bucks an hour.

All mainline pilots at Delta start at around $50 an hour first year, regardless of the plane. That is a lot better than the CAL and UPS guys at around $30 an hour.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[andyd]

Effective January 1, 2008

EMB-190/CRJ-900
12yr: 98.60/67.34
11yr: 97.88/66.75
10yr: 97.12/66.14
9: 96.37/65.24
8: 95.64/64.56
7: 94.89/63.10
6: 94.16/61.39
5: 93.41/59.88
4: 92.69/58.49
3: 91.94/57.09
2: 91.20/49.61
1: 90.52/49.61

we do have mainline wages for these "shiny pushbutton" airplanes...anyone who feels that these a/c are "beneath" them to fly at mainline should get a grip on reality...these are OUR jobs! And if our MEC doesn't come to terms to protect our jobs at the bottom of the list...then we need to VOTE THEM OUT...Moak included...

 

[General Lee]

Amazing!! I've been reading about this issue for months now and this post pretty much sums of the ignorance of someone flying "HEAVY" metal. Most are of the opinion that the E175 somehow should be on the DL property before the CRJ 900. Yet the 900 generates more profit than a E175...Reference Fuel burn, MX...total trip cost. So ask yourself which of the two is more of the threat? But here is the real issue and where the PRIDE of mainline pilots frustrate me. Has ANYONE (mainline pilot) noticed what is going on with the Q400X and ATR 72-600? These are going to 90 seat turboprobs with speed and range that makes flying your "Heavy" metal on stage lenghts of 400 miles or less MUCH MUCH more expensive than a E175-900-737-take your pick. So my question to you is what is your scope on turboprop aircraft??

So, until you...the mainline pilot that constanly fears loosing your job to the meazly regional pilot realizes that MGT will always find a way around your scope, you are regulated to complaining.

Since derugulation your pride has been and will be your demize. You'll always alow a little bigger, a little more, and a little faster aircraft on YOUR property, because as long as YOUR job is preceived to be safe you'll sell out the same people you complain are threating your jobs. Funny these are the pilots that have been supplimenting your pay for years...to quote Jack nickolis in a Few Good Men..."I'd just rather you say Thank You...." But let me guess THIS TIME IS DIFFERENT??

I'll tell you what, when ??? regional airline pulls up next to you in a DL Q400X please don't complain, please don't feel threatened...after all I'm sure his penis is much smaller than yours...after all he is only a regional pilot...

I look forward to the day when YOUR pilot group decides to demand and do what it takes to get ALL BRAND FLYING under your list from your fellow union members....

Let me guess? You fly the CR9???? I thought so. I think you need a special interview if you ever had the chance to come to mainline---to weed out a whiner like yourself. And, guess what sport? We are doing something at mainline about RJs currently---in fact our management is doing it for us. Have you seen how many have been parked over the past year or so? A lot more have been parked than have been added. I hope that trend continues. Regardless, our airline will need planes at all seat configurations--small and large, and hopefully mainline will add more E175s mainly, with our guys flying them---and the CPZ guys getting stapled at the bottom. Sounds like a plan, and have fun flying your "9".....

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FBN0223]

Effective January 1, 2008


we do have mainline wages for these "shiny pushbutton" airplanes...anyone who feels that these a/c are "beneath" them to fly at mainline should get a grip on reality...these are OUR jobs! And if our MEC doesn't come to terms to protect our jobs at the bottom of the list...then we need to VOTE THEM OUT...Moak included...

I think we can all agree on that.

 

[andyd]

"hopefully mainline will add more E175s mainly, with our guys flying them---and the CPZ guys getting stapled at the bottom. Sounds like a plan".....

Bye Bye--General Lee

Hopefully we can get the proverbial E-jet and Large Crj jeanie back in the bottle and on mainline property.

 

[General Lee]

Effective January 1, 2008

EMB-190/CRJ-900
12yr: 98.60/67.34
11yr: 97.88/66.75
10yr: 97.12/66.14
9: 96.37/65.24
8: 95.64/64.56
7: 94.89/63.10
6: 94.16/61.39
5: 93.41/59.88
4: 92.69/58.49
3: 91.94/57.09
2: 91.20/49.61
1: 90.52/49.61

we do have mainline wages for these "shiny pushbutton" airplanes...anyone who feels that these a/c are "beneath" them to fly at mainline should get a grip on reality...these are OUR jobs! And if our MEC doesn't come to terms to protect our jobs at the bottom of the list...then we need to VOTE THEM OUT...Moak included...

What junior people have to realize is that the MEC may be offered some "early outs" coming up here for the senior people. That usually is great, since everyone gets to move up to a larger aircraft. The potential problem I see is that it may come with "strings attached", which could be in the form of more 76 seaters. The senior folk won't care, and that is important. Watch your backs.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Superpilot92]

All mainline pilots at Delta start at around $50 an hour first year, regardless of the plane. That is a lot better than the CAL and UPS guys at around $30 an hour.


Bye Bye---General Lee

its $52 this year and almost $55 next year for first year FOs. Goes up each year. fwiw

 

[Superpilot92]

I think we can all agree on that.

+1 !

 

[FmrFreightDog]

n'ermind...

 

[FmrFreightDog]

What junior people have to realize is that the MEC may be offered some "early outs" coming up here for the senior people. That usually is great, since everyone gets to move up to a larger aircraft. The potential problem I see is that it may come with "strings attached", which could be in the form of more 76 seaters. The senior folk won't care, and that is important. Watch your backs.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Smartest thing you ever said.... Everyone with a relative position below 50% should take note of this post, and then photocopy it and pass it out.... liberally....

Trust, but verify the actions of your MEC over the next 6-8 months. If you're halfway down the list or lower you're best interests way well be negotiated away before you ever knew what hit you....

 

[ACL65PILOT]

What junior people have to realize is that the MEC may be offered some "early outs" coming up here for the senior people. That usually is great, since everyone gets to move up to a larger aircraft. The potential problem I see is that it may come with "strings attached", which could be in the form of more 76 seaters. The senior folk won't care, and that is important. Watch your backs.

Bye Bye--General Lee

You know, I have to agree that this might be a possibility. There is no way my vote would say yes for it. I would prefer to be on the street than to give up more scope!

 

[FDJ2]

No

76 seat A/C. 153 for now up to a total of 255.

Technically correct, but just to be clear up to 153 until the DAL mainline fleet is over 767 aircraft and then more 76 seaters authorized. The total number of 70 + 76 seat aircraft can not exceed 255, I believe the current total is approximately 225.

 

[~~~^~~~]

The potential problem I see is that it may come with "strings attached", which could be in the form of more 76 seaters. The senior folk won't care, and that is important. Watch your backs.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Is this even a credible rumor?

The 100 seat jet is already iffy. The Company would like us to make that decision easy for them since the smallest jet they are looking at is an MD88 / 757 / DC9 replacement MD90.

If we allow more super giant RJ's then the 100 seat jet will never come to mainline. When 2012 gets here we'll have at least a 1,000 on the street if this comes to pass.

 

[FBN0223]

Is this even a credible rumor?

The 100 seat jet is already iffy. The Company would like us to make that decision easy for them since the smallest jet they are looking at is an MD88 / 757 / DC9 replacement MD90.

If we allow more super giant RJ's then the 100 seat jet will never come to mainline. When 2012 gets here we'll have at least a 1,000 on the street if this comes to pass.

Agree.

 

[General Lee]

Is this even a credible rumor?

The 100 seat jet is already iffy. The Company would like us to make that decision easy for them since the smallest jet they are looking at is an MD88 / 757 / DC9 replacement MD90.

If we allow more super giant RJ's then the 100 seat jet will never come to mainline. When 2012 gets here we'll have at least a 1,000 on the street if this comes to pass.

It is a strong possibility that will happen, if this is based on past events. (IOW, I wouldn't put it past them) It is a classic senior vs junior tug of war, and management loves that. We have to figure out WHY management would allow it. What's in it for them? Harmony for employees? Riight. They may want to allow retirements which then allow Advanced Entitlements, which may be cheaper than displacements when they move planes from base to base. They may want to add E190s to Compass (with our blessing, under the guise that it could be junior furlough protection), and then sell Compass eventually. The senior half of the list might not care as much about the extra RJs, since they are watching with dollar signs their upgrade to the next larger bird. That is where it gets dangerous. We need to know WHY the company would allow it.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Browntothebone]

All mainline pilots at Delta start at around $50 an hour first year, regardless of the plane. That is a lot better than the CAL and UPS guys at around $30 an hour.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Look at second year pay. Delta $72 (DC-9) to $99 (747-400/777, never going to happen at two yrs. seniority)
UPS $122 (All types, newhires in 747-400)

The disparity only increases as the years go up. Max. F/O pay at Delta is $137/hr (12 yr. 747-400/ 777) UPS F/Os make more than that starting sixth year pay. A senior UPS F/O makes the equivalent of a Delta 757/767 Captain. Plus free leather jackets.

 

[General Lee]

Look at second year pay. Delta $72 (DC-9) to $99 (747-400/777, never going to happen at two yrs. seniority)
UPS $122 (All types, newhires in 747-400)

The disparity only increases as the years go up. Max. F/O pay at Delta is $137/hr (12 yr. 747-400/ 777) UPS F/Os make more than that starting sixth year pay. A senior UPS F/O makes the equivalent of a Delta 757/767 Captain. Plus free leather jackets.

And, a lot of your flights are dog krap all nighters that are two man, transcons. No thanks. You are also currently furloughing or have announced furloughs, and you are parking DC8s. (all this while your company posts a $400 million Q1 profit) Wow, sounds like a wonderful management to employee relationship. Also, can you tell me about your 200 management pilots. What is the deal with that? Sounds fishy. And newhires flying the 744? You mean the ex Polar guys who just went over there, directly into the 744, and then were displaced to the DC8 FE? Are they now going to be furloughed? Ouch.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Superpilot92]

There are more people that have been negatively effected by scope relief than there are senior guys that would sell people out. Also more and more senior guys are anti-scope relief than during previous times. keep on your toes fellas

 

[Browntothebone]

And, a lot of your flights are dog krap all nighters that are two man, transcons. No thanks. You are also currently furloughing or have announced furloughs, and you are parking DC8s. (all this while your company posts a $400 million Q1 profit) Wow, sounds like a wonderful management to employee relationship. Also, can you tell me about your 200 management pilots. What is the deal with that? Sounds fishy. And newhires flying the 744? You mean the ex Polar guys who just went over there, directly into the 744, and then were displaced to the DC8 FE? Are they now going to be furloughed? Ouch.



Bye Bye--General Lee

Your to easy. All anyone has to do is point out facts that Delta is not the best airline to work for and does not have the highest pay. Most of UPS block hours are international and most international flights are daytime flights. No furloughs or announced furloughs. Just remember, when you upgrade to captain at Delta, F/O's at UPS will still make more money than you do and fly less and fly during the day.

 

[General Lee]

Your to easy. All anyone has to do is point out facts that Delta is not the best airline to work for and does not have the highest pay. Most of UPS block hours are international and most international flights are daytime flights. No furloughs or announced furloughs. Just remember, when you upgrade to captain at Delta, F/O's at UPS will still make more money than you do and fly less and fly during the day.

Really? Lie much???? I have a buddy who is in the bottom 300, and he stated that he has been targeted. You are WRONG. And, he says he does fly some daylight hours, but he has to fly 4 or 5 on, and then have the same off. If you want week on, week off schedules you have to fly more night hours. He showed me his schedules, and they sucked. He did flights into RFD, had 24 hours there (after arriving at 1am from a west coast city), and then fly back 24 hours later--which sucked since it was hard for him to get a nap at 10pm before his 12am pickup. He stated he was tired all the time. But hey, you must be at another UPS, since what you state is TOTALLY different. Well, okay then. And, if you think we will always have lower wages, you could be mistaken. We were the ones to bring the bar up higher for EVERYONE, including UPS pilots. It may take awhile, but we are aiming to bring it up again. You betcha! Now, get some sleep for your night sort tonight. When I fly INTL flights at night, I have a third guy rotating in and allowing me to sleep in the rest seat. We probably have 25 total domestic allnighters throughout our system. (a far cry from your number)

All I stated initially was that we have first year pay higher than what another poster stated (around $50 an hour), and that it was higher than CAL or UPS first year. No lying there. But NOOOOOO, then you stuck your arse in and had to show your second year pay, which I hadn't even asked for. It's great you think UPS is so much fun to work for, but I happen to really like my job, and it pays well and I don't have to go out on 13 day trips with 51 hours in Tanjin, China (I saw one of my buddies trips), or have to do night sorts with MOST of your flying at night. Next time, read the actual post (I was stating facts only, not comparing airlines at the time), or just shut your trap. Just remember, when your pilots start to die off thanks to sleep deprevation due to constant time zone changes in the middle of the night, Delta Capts will probably still be alive, but might have a little less money than UPS FOs......



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[johnsonrod]

How did this thread transition from Delta Connection E175s to a Delta vs. UPS debate? Oooooh that's right, this is Flightinfo and thread drift is VERY COMMON.

 

[instructordude]

Your to easy. All anyone has to do is point out facts that Delta is not the best airline to work for and does not have the highest pay. Most of UPS block hours are international and most international flights are daytime flights. No furloughs or announced furloughs. Just remember, when you upgrade to captain at Delta, F/O's at UPS will still make more money than you do and fly less and fly during the day.

Wow. Thats amazing a UPS F/O makes more than a Delta Capt. At least at Delta you can fly to Lagos!

 

[michael707767]

You know, I have to agree that this might be a possibility. There is no way my vote would say yes for it. I would prefer to be on the street than to give up more scope!

You think Moak will give you a vote? Nope, he will find a way around a vote just like he did with the additional 76 seat jets that just happened.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Never mind. I don't think this is a credible rumor.

I do not see it going down like this. Management has not even asked yet, they have all the scope relief they need for now.