Delta Connection EMB175s

[FBN0223]

Anyone DL contract gurus out there that know any new info on the flying that we gave away?

A few review Qs:

1) Is Compass the only operator under DL that operates EMB175s?

2) Are there any plans in the works for more EMB175s to be operated by other DL contract carriers?

3) Current DL limit on 75 seat aircraft not flown but DL pilots but under the Delta brand?

Really too bad we gave this flying away. Have several friends on the DC-9(B)and others in higher positions who would wouldn't mind flying Captain on the EMB if the price was right.

Any accurate info is appreciated. Thanks

 

[kf4amu]

Have several friends on the DC-9(B)and others in higher positions who would wouldn't mind flying Captain on the EMB if the price was right.

Any accurate info is appreciated. Thanks

I thought the point of having contract carriers is because the price ISN'T right, or they would be mainline aircraft.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

CPS and Shuttle America fly the 175.

 

[tbkane]

Did Shuttle up their weights or not no one ever said.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

They did not. Basically web board rumor caught them with their pants down. Still limited per Section one of the Delta PWA.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Anyone DL contract gurus out there that know any new info on the flying that we gave away?

A few review Qs:

1) Is Compass the only operator under DL that operates EMB175s?

No

2) Are there any plans in the works for more EMB175s to be operated by other DL contract carriers?

CPS has a few more planes that need to be delivered.

3) Current DL limit on 75 seat aircraft not flown but DL pilots but under the Delta brand?

76 seat A/C. 153 for now up to a total of 255.

Really too bad we gave this flying away. Have several friends on the DC-9(B)and others in higher positions who would wouldn't mind flying Captain on the EMB if the price was right.

Any accurate info is appreciated. Thanks

I will post an excerpt from CA 09-01

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Section 1 B. 40. d. and e. of the Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement (the PWA currently in effect) reads as follows:
40. “Permitted aircraft type” means: . . .
d. one of up to 120 jet aircraft configured with 71-76 passenger seats and certificated in the United States with a maximum gross takeoff weight of 86,000 pounds or less (“76-seat jets”). The number of 76-seat jets may be increased above 120 by three 76-seat jets for each aircraft above the number of aircraft in the baseline fleet operated by the Company (in service, undergoing maintenance and operational spares) as of CBAID. The baseline fleet number will be 440+N, in which N is the number of aircraft (in service, undergoing maintenance and operational spares but not including permitted aircraft types) added to the Company’s baseline fleet from NWA. The number and type of all aircraft in the Company’s fleet on CBAID will be provided to the Association. The number of 70-seat jets plus 76-seat jets permitted by Section 1 B. 40. may not exceed 255.
Exception: Up to the 36 EMB-175s that were operated and/or ordered by Northwest prior to CBAID may continue to be operated with up to a maximum gross takeoff weight of 89,000 pounds.
e. once the number of permitted 76-seat jets is established, it will not be reduced.
Exception one: If a pilot on the seniority list with an employment date prior to September 1, 2001 is placed on furlough, the Company will convert all 76-seat jets for operation as 70-seat jets.
Exception two: In the event the flow provisions of NWA LOA 2006-10 and LOA 2006-14 cease to be available, either at the feeder carrier affiliate referenced in such LOAs or at another carrier, the number of jet aircraft configured with 71-76 passenger seats specified in Section 1 B. 40. d. will revert to 85.
Management believes that Section 1 B. 40. d. and e. establish the maximum number of 76-seat jets based on the number of aircraft in the mainline fleet at any date prior to the date a 76-seat jet enters service (and after Letter of Agreement 51 took effect). Essentially, this interpretation would allow the Company to operate a number of 76 seat jets based on the number of mainline jets at the highest point since LOA 51 took effect. The Association’s position is that Section 1 B. 40. d. and e. establish the maximum number of 76-seat jets based on the number of aircraft in the mainline fleet on the actual date a 76-seat jet enters service and that the maximum number of such 76-seat jets is not determined by the number of aircraft in the mainline fleet at any previous time nor does it include future deliveries in the mainline fleet number.

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Management’s interpretation of Section 1 B. 40. d. and e. would authorize the Company to currently operate up to 156 76-seat jets. The Association’s interpretation of Section 1 B. 40. d. and e. would authorize the Company to currently operate 127 76-seat jets (see Figure 1).
Typically, barring a negotiated settlement, grievances are eventually decided by binding arbitration before a neutral third party, often at a point well into the future. While the Association feels confident that our interpretation of Section 1 B. 40. d. and e. is correct, there always remain several elements of risk whenever an issue is decided through arbitration.
After a number of face-to-face meetings and careful consideration, the parties reached a Settlement Agreement which mitigates the litigation risks but more importantly confirms the Association’s interpretation of the PWA and provides real and meaningful additional furlough protection for hundreds of the most vulnerable pilots on our seniority list, very similar to protections already available to more senior pilots.
The Settlement Agreement provides that:

Figure 1 ​

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The Company will agree to the Association’s interpretation of Section 1 B. 40. d. and e. but provides a one-time exception to this interpretation allowing the Company to operate up to 153* 76-seat jets so long as the Company does not furlough any pilot on the integrated system seniority list as of February 9, 2009, the date the agreement was signed. With agreement on the interpretation of Section 1 B. 40. d. and e, any further increase above 153 76-seat jets will require substantial mainline fleet growth. For example, for the Company to add a 154th 76-seat jet, the mainline would have to be comprised of 768 mainline jets. Today the mainline fleet consists of 753 aircraft.
•
If the Company does furlough any pilot on the Integrated System Seniority List, then the Company will physically remove six passenger seats from the number of 76-seat jets (in service, undergoing maintenance and operational spares) that exceeds the authorized number of 76-seat jets under the Association’s interpretation of Section 1 B. 40. d. and e.
•
While the Company will have 90 days from the first furlough to physically remove the seats, such seats will become immediately unusable for any purpose upon the furlough of the very first pilot on the list.

It’s important to understand that the agreement is a settlement over an issue of scope language interpretation and not an issue of “scope relief.” Scope language is intended to protect pilot jobs. This agreement enhances job protections for Delta pilots. There has been no change to the scope language in our contract, and this settlement will not increase the number of regional jet hulls; it simply codifies the number of seats that will be allowed in up to 26 of those aircraft. It allows up to a total of 156 seats throughout the system (26 aircraft x 6 seats per airplane = 156) in exchange for furlough protections for hundreds of Delta pilots and their families and definitive agreement on the contractual language moving forward. Further, this agreement does not increase the ceiling on the total number of 70-seat/76-seat jets permitted by Section 1 B. 40. That number remains at 255, and with 153 76-seat jets, the total of 70/76-seat jets will be 224 while the overall number of all regional jets has decreased substantially over the past year.
Though the Company’s position provides for a total of 156 76-seat aircraft, the agreement limits the number to 153 aircraft.

 

[Minimaniac]

Shuttle America, part of Republic Holdings, operates 16 E-175s. These planes directly replaced the E-170s that Shuttle was operating for Delta. Those displaced E-170s found homes elsewhere, with the majority of the airframes now doing United flying. The Shuttle America E-175's flown for Delta carry 76 passengers in a two-class configuration, and have a MTOW of 85,517. This MTOW is less than that of the Compass E-175s, and is under the contractual cap imposed by the new Delta CBA. Shuttle America wanted to up the MTOW of their 16 aircraft to match the Compass aircraft, but an attentive Delta pilot(s) caught wind of the change before it could be executed.

 

[tbkane]

That is what I wanted to know. I know that the Delta Pilots supposedly "caught" it but did they really comply. I have witnessed some underhanded dealings before and was curious if this was going to happen again.

 

[koepp]

CPS has a few more planes that need to be delivered.

CPS has all 36 planes. The last one showed up last December.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

CPS has all 36 planes. The last one showed up last December.

Good to know. DAL does not show that on their fleet count. I knew the last one was coming, I just did not know when.

Thanks!

 

[DrewBlows]

All Compass aircraft have been modified to the AR version (89,000 lbs) but the weights aren't being used yet because the flight planning software experienced some sort of glitch. I expect implementation in the next few weeks. Shouldn't affect many flights in the current compass route system.

 

[tbkane]

What about the Shuttle Airplanes?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Shuttle will not be modified per the communication between DALPA and our management and Shuttle America's management.

 

[skid]

CPS has all 36 planes. The last one showed up last December.

Compass also had I think somewhere in the neighborhood of 18 options.
In last weeks AVweek and Space Tech an article about Embraer mentions someone with 18 options had canceles all 18 of those. Not sure if this is Compass's former allotment or not. Just food for thought on more E175's at Delta C carriers.

 

[SpauldingSmails]

Compass also had I think somewhere in the neighborhood of 18 options.
In last weeks AVweek and Space Tech an article about Embraer mentions someone with 18 options had canceles all 18 of those. Not sure if this is Compass's former allotment or not. Just food for thought on more E175's at Delta C carriers.

The options were for 36 further airframes, and were Northwest's. I believe that Delta Connection is at the cap for 76 seaters, and I've heard the numbers on the E190/195 were not as attractive as DAL would like (per Bill Lentsch, NW FLOPS VP). I'd imagine the options will not be exercised anytime soon.

 

[mynameisjim]

I can't imagine anyone ever canceling options. They have no commitment or cost. Sell them, maybe. But just cancel?

 

[FBN0223]

No
CPS has a few more planes that need to be delivered.
76 seat A/C. 153 for now up to a total of 255.

So DL can place at least 153 76 seat jets on-line under the DL brand, flying DL routes by non-Delta pilots. Our ALPA dues at work.

Thanks ACL for all the info.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Thats exactly why we were in the stapling fight to bring CPZ on board. And our own union isnt for it. I am still dumbfounded by the convo with Lee.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

It is part of the JPWA.

As listed in the Contract Awareness above, we need 768 mainline jets before the 154th 76 RJ is put in service in Delta colors.
Now of bigger note is this. There are about 223 70 and 76 seat jets flying around in the Delta colors today. The max cap on this size of jet is 255. In effect 32 more 70 or 76 seat jets can be bought and put into service currently. Now as mainline grows they can replace the 70 seaters with the 76 seat variants. (see above for the sliding scale)
Even though the 76 seat jet offers two class service, the ROI on trading in a 70 seat jet is hard to quantify. The aircraft makers would have to offer really good terms to make it cost advantageous for Delta to do this. Six seat, even premium seats is a lot to bite off for a new aircraft lease after these 32 are bought. (we would need 779 mainline jets on the property as DCI took delivery of the 255th 70/76seat jet if the remaining jets delivered were the 76 seat variant)