Delta and UAL might be de-certifying ALPA

[Jar Jar]

Keep this thread on topic please, this is about Delta.

Topic:
Delta and UAL might be de-certifying ALPA

... Anyway - Nobody has yet mentioned CAPA (a coalition of the largest independent airline unions) and the fact that they have been far more proactive with rallying their troops than ALPA in the last few years. I subscribe to CAPA mailings even though I'm not part of a member union and they are much more "in-touch" than the ALPA crowd.

 

[outerlimits]

Of course they are OYS. Open your eyes. Good luck with your big payraise and putting all those RJ's back in the barn.

RF

No barn We soon will be flying the MD90 s and airbus for mother Delta

 

[redflyer65]

And SWAPA did well for you in your merger? They did terrible. They had to have the "big guns" come in and give a talk because the union couldn't get it done on their own. Then you didn't get a payraise at all, no stock, and then you alienated 1700 new "brothers." GREAT JOB SWAPA. They couldn't negotiate out of a paper bag. I am surprised you aren't begging for ALPA. All you got was 800 Airtran guys put in front of you, with huge stagnation coming up because of the lack of growth. Your new planes will replace old ones. Oh yeah, you might get a HNL flight, whooopie! Nah, you'll still be doing ELP to AUS.


Godspeed!


The OYSter

I think both UAL and DL would be far better off de-certifying ALPA. It has become a bloated behemoth that is really out of touch with the line pilots. Both would be better served by a strong in-house union like SWAPA.

About SWAPA, it's lightyears better than ALPA. I did well in the SLI and SWAPA kept a ton of money in the bank by not having to payout millions to attorneys. There is talk of a possible dues refund check soon. So all is well. (sorry if that stretched the topic a little).

RF

 

[On Your Six]

I think both UAL and DL would be far better off de-certifying ALPA. It has become a bloated behemoth that is really out of touch with the line pilots. Both would be better served by a strong in-house union like SWAPA.

About SWAPA, it's lightyears better than ALPA. I did well in the SLI and SWAPA kept a ton of money in the bank by not having to payout millions to attorneys. There is talk of a possible dues refund check soon. So all is well. (sorry if that stretched the topic a little).

RF

There are problems with ALPA, but overall I think unity is more important, and these threats to ALPA will probably help them focus on what is important, so that they do not get voted out. Sometimes a threat like that can spur people to action.

I'm glad you did well in your SLI, but I still think you should have gotten more than just some AT guys behind you on the list. Stock at least.


Godspeed!


The OYSter

 

[redflyer65]

There are problems with ALPA, but overall I think unity is more important, and these threats to ALPA will probably help them focus on what is important, so that they do not get voted out. Sometimes a threat like that can spur people to action.

I'm glad you did well in your SLI, but I still think you should have gotten more than just some AT guys behind you on the list. Stock at least.


Godspeed!


The OYSter

OYS,

I could agree with you about the unity. But it just isn't there. Not with UAL/CAL or DL. Look at the bickering at UAL. The brain of ALPA is at Herndon, less locally.

Honestly, I hope you guys can get your payrates up. Maybe it's the very cause you need to achieve some unity.

RF

 

[SWA Bubba]

Most of the opposition consists of FNWA pilots, and now a large bunch in ATL, all wanting to not be managed into expectations. The total number of guys who have signed a card to force a vote supposedly was at around 4000, and I think they need about half to force a vote to change unions. I really hope ALPA succeeds in getting a better next contract, but the guys I fly with now in DTW are skeptical. Here's to hoping they come through with something everyone can accept.


Godspeed!


The OYSter

Wait...

(this is all I got from OYS's post):

The guy who flys out of DETROIT is giving any SWA guy crap about flying to LBB? That's funny right there....

Bubba

 

[SWA Bubba]

.... And if you're referencing SWAPA and their "success", I'd have to argue that the fuel hedges they enjoyed over the past decade had FAR more to do with their pilots abilities to prosper than their union EVER did.

And I'd argue that you're wrong. Even without fuel hedges (essentially where we're at now), SWA STILL makes a profit every quarter while paying the highest rates to its employees. How do you explain that?

SWAPA actually works with SWA instead of against the company. That's the main difference between SWAPA and ALPA (or whomever). We work more efficiently, knowing that as the company does well, WE do well in return. Our last few contracts (and extensions) were heavily weighted towards profitability raises, and that's when we leapfrogged all the legacies moving downwards. And ALL of those profitability raises were based on operating profits OUTSIDE of any fuel hedge gain or loss. The fuel hedge gains in those days just padded the company's bottom line. Flying profits alone padded the pilots' bottom line. It really is just that simple, regardless of whatever stupid thing OYS says about Q3, culture, Airtran or Lubbock.

Bubba

 

[joepilot29]

As a current and shortly furloughed pilot from Comair I wish nothing but the best to the demise of ALPA!! It would not break my heart one bit to see DL and UAL to break off from ALPA!!!

I would rather see the regionals play the role of regionals and stop flying mainline routes. I do not want to be stuck at a regional flying for crap wages doing the same job the rest of my career!!! ALPA has played a role with the current whipsawing!!! Tired of hearing all the "one level of BS" they are preaching right now.

I cannot wait to see this supposedly wonderful new contract they are negotiating on my behalf!!! From what I am hearing it is pure crap!!!! I pay my dues to ALPA to leave me alone. Total joke!!!

 

[SWA Bubba]

And SWAPA did well for you in your merger? They did terrible. They had to have the "big guns" come in and give a talk because the union couldn't get it done on their own. Then you didn't get a payraise at all, no stock, and then you alienated 1700 new "brothers." GREAT JOB SWAPA. They couldn't negotiate out of a paper bag. I am surprised you aren't begging for ALPA. All you got was 800 Airtran guys put in front of you, with huge stagnation coming up because of the lack of growth. Your new planes will replace old ones. Oh yeah, you might get a HNL flight, whooopie! Nah, you'll still be doing ELP to AUS.


Godspeed!


The OYSter

You know, for a supposed airline pilot, you really DO say the stupidest things. All you do is spout off buzz words and sound bites that contradict themselves. What did we expect SWAPA to get in an acquisition? We bought another airline. We already had the best pay and benefits. What we "got" was a trade: some of their seniority (2.5 years on average) for our pay and contract. Seems smooth enough. You blather on that we got screwed, and then we screwed Airtran. Well, which IS it? If we screwed Airtran, then WE did good. If WE got screwed, than Airtran made out. Pick one, for God's sake.

And as far as negotiating out of a paper bag, OR begging for ALPA, I'd have to suggest that you need a pee test ASAP. What did SWAPA negotiate? How about the strongest scope language ever in airline history, bar none. (I realize you don't know what that means; you should ask somebody else to explain it to you.) Delta's ALPA, on the other hand, hemorrages scope like it's that time of the month. You pay twice our dues, in effect to subsidize ALPA's regionals whose sole purpose of existence is to take your flying from you. Doesn't that seem stupid to you? SWAPA negotiated top tier benefits and raises (profitability-based) that made our pilots the best-compensated in the country, while at the same time, still helping the company make money. Imagine that! Delta's ALPA? Not so much. You're making profits now, but enough to pay you guys what we get? We'll see. If history is any indication, you'll posture and demand unsustainable costs until your company starts losing money again. You know, more money for less work, typical ALPA m.o. That's what happens when unions and companies consistenly pull in opposite directions. Repeat as necessary.

As far as "lack of growth" goes, once again your ignorance is astounding. SWA bought Airtran to help it grow. We've got twice as many planes on order as we're retiring. And any further industry consolidation can only mean more opportunities for us to grow. While it's true that airlines' plans can change from year to year (Surprise! It's true for Delta as well!), so nobody can say with certainty what will happen to either of our airlines, I'd take my chances with Southwest over Delta any day of the week.

Bubba

P.S. By the way--YOU'RE the new guy, still flying the routes no one else wants. So, I'm pretty sure that -I'LL- be flying to HNL before you get off your route from DTW to your mother's basement. :blush:

 

[redflyer65]

You know, for a supposed airline pilot, you really DO say the stupidest things. All you do is spout off buzz words and sound bites that contradict themselves. What did we expect SWAPA to get in an acquisition? We bought another airline. We already had the best pay and benefits. What we "got" was a trade: some of their seniority (2.5 years on average) for our pay and contract. Seems smooth enough. You blather on that we got screwed, and then we screwed Airtran. Well, which IS it? If we screwed Airtran, then WE did good. If WE got screwed, than Airtran made out. Pick one, for God's sake.

So, I'm pretty sure that -I'LL- be flying to HNL before you get off your route from DTW to your mother's basement. :blush:

Post of the day brother. He doesn't know whether he's coming or going.

LBB sucks, oh wait we outsource it to Pinnacle! Must not be good enough for mainline to fly there. Rinse and repeat.

RF