Delta and NWA Starting Positions From First Meeting...

[PeanuckleCRJ]

I don't understand why this so complicated. Both are unionized under ALPA, and ALPA had a policy of DOH right? What's the problem here? Seems to me that you just order everyone by their date of hire, and everyone maintains their current seat positions until they decide to bid something else. If you were an ATL 757 FO before, you're an ATL 757 FO after. That way no one loses anything, and everyone's seniority is respected.

DOH is absolutely NOT in ALPA merger policy...never mentioned.

I do agree with that you should be in the same position in the joint company..which actually is more of an argument for something closer to relative seniority. The major hiring "blobs" are mostly at slightly different places in each of the companies...as well as nwa has a number of older guys still left. As such, I think you will see in the arbitration NWA guys stacked on at the top and a few at the bottom, too. NWA has only hired ~250 since 2001..while DAL has hired just right at 700. That is a big difference toward the bottom of the list...as well as the top.

Regardless... whatever happens, happens.

I refuse to be like the USair east babies and bitch and whine about a binding agreement.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

There are reasons that both unions went around the ALPA policies. Most are quite broken. Can use some and not all.
We chose none, so here we are. Whatever happens we all get to live with it since the JPWA is binding.

Anyone do and charters lately? God that food is good.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Quite true.
I think that what you and I will see being in the first few classes will be a lot different than people in the mid to late 07 classes. Ratio on equipment puts us in the 73Nb seats and that is a huge difference. I guess we will all wait and see.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

Jesus H. Christ. Can I just go dig ditches or answer 911 calls for a living??? Listening to you nancies piss and moan about day one of a month long process is almost enough to make me want to grow a vagina. At least then I'd have an excuse for wanting to get all emotional and post here... Like I said before, it's day one (or two now.. who gives a crap).

Everybody relax. We do actually have to work together at some point, and flinging poop on an anonymous message board ain't gonna help when comes down to us all getting along well enough to make this god-forsaken job decent enough to get out of bed for.

Rest assured that the arbitrators, Captain Moak, or Captain Stevens will screw us all to some degree. Whatever.... It is what it is. I, for one, don't relish the idea of spending the next 25 years of my life dealing with this B.S. We can all be children and fling poo at each other or we can be adults and realize that our taunts and insults on this web board, no matter how clever, aren't going to influence the arbitrators, but may indeed go a long way towards fostering a lot of ill will at the "New Northwest"... oops, I mean the "New Delta"

Everybody grow up. Especially you, Armando.. oops, I mean PuffDriver..

(My apologies to anyone reading/replying to this forum who actually has a vagina...)

.

 

[NuGuy]

Jesus H. Christ. Can I just go dig ditches or answer 911 calls for a living??? Listening to you nancies piss and moan about day one of a month long process is almost enough to make me want to grow a vagina. At least then I'd have an excuse for wanting to get all emotional and post here... Like I said before, it's day one (or two now.. who gives a crap).

Everybody relax. We do actually have to work together at some point, and flinging poop on an anonymous message board ain't gonna help when comes down to us all getting along well enough to make this god-forsaken job decent enough to get out of bed for.

Rest assured that the arbitrators, Captain Moak, or Captain Stevens will screw us all to some degree. Whatever.... It is what it is. I, for one, don't relish the idea of spending the next 25 years of my life dealing with this B.S.

Everybody grow up. Especially you, Armando.. oops, I mean PuffDriver.. oops...

Ya gotta hand it to DT at Jetcareers...he keeps this crap off his forum....

Nu

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Everybody grow up. Especially you, Armando.. oops, I mean PuffDriver..

(My apologies to anyone reading/replying to this forum who actually has a vagina...)

.

Present party excluded, right Monica?
And dumbass, you couldn't be more wrong about who PuffDriver is! Of course, you haven't been right about much, so at least you're on par!

 

[727RedTails]

I know at least one girl who was a f/a on 9/11 and decided to be a pilot. Went to Gulfstream, Pinnacle and then Delta all post 9/11. I'm sorry but as a 2000 nwa hire I would find it hard to stomach anyone hired after both airlines furloughed post 9/11 above me in seniority.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Actually you are correct. Then there are a few on the interview list as well. Never got the interview done, but once we start up they will be.
We also have people that have completed all of their flight training and gone to ASA and are here at DAL. But as you say their career expectations are better than everyone at NWA including Superpilot. I can think of at least 10 people younger than him that were hired at DAL before he was hired at NWA.

 

[Helos2Galaxy]

I'm sorry but as a 2000 nwa hire I would find it hard to stomach anyone hired after both airlines furloughed post 9/11 above me in seniority.

I agree with you to an extent... I am a DL hire from 2000. I can hold 88 Captain. The only left seat you can hold is a Compass one that pays less than a DL 88 F/O. Sorry but DOH won't cut it. You're probably bottom 85% at NWA -- I am about 20% hire at my list and hope to stay at that relative letter after we merge...

 

[727RedTails]

We both went through our time on furlough. CA on the 9 is not that senior to me. I would have been in the top 50% in a couple years. With a retirement at no. 51. With 2007 hires above me it may push me to 500 at retirement. I could accept some DAL hires pre 9-11 above me but not 2007. That would be unfair in my opinion.

 

[Sedona16]

We both went through our time on furlough. CA on the 9 is not that senior to me. I would have been in the top 50% in a couple years. With a retirement at no. 51. With 2007 hires above me it may push me to 500 at retirement. I could accept some DAL hires pre 9-11 above me but not 2007. That would be unfair in my opinion.

So in two years (2 = a couple) you will be half way up the list? Not calling you a liar just want to make sure this is an accurate statement. Thats some serious movement! How many Northwest guys you got retiring in the next two years?

 

[727RedTails]

Good point I shouldn't have said a couple. I will update that, 7 years to be exact. If you were hired 2007 or later just remember most of us pre 9-11 are within a couple years of 40 at the youngest. So we are older than most 2007 hires (not all I'm sure there are ex military etc that were hired older). So we will be out of your way anyway.

 

[Superpilot92]

Actually you are correct. Then there are a few on the interview list as well. Never got the interview done, but once we start up they will be.
We also have people that have completed all of their flight training and gone to ASA and are here at DAL. But as you say their career expectations are better than everyone at NWA including Superpilot. I can think of at least 10 people younger than him that were hired at DAL before he was hired at NWA.

How many people were hired at DAL pre-2008 that are younger than 27-28? 10? Were those 10 people expected to be 45% on the Delta list in the next 10-12 years? Just because they may be on a widebody now doesnt necessarily mean their career expectations are better. Not everyone wants to be on a widebody right off the bat either.

Anyone who got hired at NWA or DAL near the beginning of the post 9/11 hiring should have pretty good career expectations considering the retirements that NWA has and eventually DAL has coming. It should be steady movement for the next 15-20 years just based on retirements across the board. We'll see.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I could accept some DAL hires pre 9-11 above me but not 2007. That would be unfair in my opinion.

So, if we merged with Comair, their senior pilots should be above both of us, by Date of Hire?

I don't think so.

Equipment and status quo does have meaning.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Flightinfo .... lagging board :smash:

 

[727RedTails]

Come on now, nwa and comair is like comparing apples to oranges.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Just because they may be on a widebody now doesnt necessarily mean their career expectations are better. Not everyone wants to be on a widebody right off the bat either.

Yeah sure. It is just lousy taking a 767 to warm destinations when darned-it, I could have enjoyed slogging around an external inspection on a DC9 while de-icing fluid and oil drips on my head.

It is not luck. I never applied to NWA. There were four airlines that would justify (provide a break even and profit) changing jobs for a top third seniority holder at ASA. I posted a spreadsheet of those numbers, which was a popular thread. NWA did not meet the criteria that justified leaving a senior position at a regional.

Others have posted their evaluations which match.

The average DAL new hire in 2007 was over 37 years of age, had more than 5,500 hours and many (maybe most) had Master's degrees or higher. I don't know NWA's demographics, but it would be my guess that most 2007/2008 hires are at an earlier stage of their career and have many more years before retirement. Your age is an incredible advantage, you know it and I'm frankly impressed (& wish that I'd pulled it off).

NWA was your first choice, it wasn't mine. I don't credit luck for landing you your job, or mine. We set our goals and worked towards them. Anyone at a major carrier in 2007 when the doors just opened isn't there by accident.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Come on now, nwa and comair is like comparing apples to oranges.

More difference between a 767ER and DC9, than there is between a DC9 and the RJ that replaces it. More seniority numbers between me and the bottom than between you and the Mesaba pilots NWA put on the list.

Crazy? Depends on perspective.

I certainly understand your concern, but with a nearly 40% raise with longevity, life is pretty good 'eh?

I'm glad we fixed that in the JPWA.

 

[Superpilot92]

Yeah sure. It is just lousy taking a 767 to warm destinations when darned-it, I could have enjoyed slogging around an external inspection on a DC9 while de-icing fluid and oil drips on my head.

It is not luck. I never applied to NWA. There were four airlines that would justify (provide a break even and profit) changing jobs for a top third seniority holder at ASA. I posted a spreadsheet of those numbers, which was a popular thread. NWA did not meet the criteria that justified leaving a senior position at a regional.

Others have posted their evaluations which match.

Just look at the demographics. The average DAL new hire in 2007 was over 37 years of age, had more than 5,500 hours and many (maybe most) had Master's degrees or higher.

NWA was your first choice, it wasn't mine. I don't credit luck for landing you your job, or mine. We set our goals and worked towards them. Anyone at a major carrier in 2007 isn't there by accident.

Who said anything about "luck"? Also i never said flying a widebody wasnt a good job i just said its not what everyone wants to do. I dont, at least not right now i dont. NWA avg age this go around was likely around 32, flight times were probably around 4000-8000 hours and All had at least a 4 year degree if not higher. We all decided to move on to DAL or NWA for different reasons, you for your spreadsheet and mine because of my age and the timing of getting hired at NWA.

Like i said, anyone who was hired post 9/11 in the beginning wave at DAL/NWA should have pretty good career expectations based on the retirement numbers alone. Glass half full :beer:

 

[~~~^~~~]

Like i said, anyone who was hired post 9/11 in the beginning wave at DAL/NWA should have pretty good career expectations based on the retirement numbers alone. Glass half full :beer:

We agree, glass half full