Delta and NWA Starting Positions From First Meeting...

Sedona16

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October 02, 2008
SLI Arbitration Hearings Begin
On Monday, September 29, the Delta and Northwest Merger Committees provided their respective Pre-Hearing Statements to the three-member SLI (Seniority List Integration) Arbitration Panel in accordance with the “Ground Rules” established for the SLI Hearings. The Arbitration Panel’s task will be the creation of a fair and equitable integration of the Delta and Northwest pilot seniority lists consistent with ALPA Merger Policy.

The Delta MEC Merger Committee provided the Panel with a comprehensive Pre-Hearing Statement in which they laid out their intent to present an argument for an integrated list based on “ratioed status and category” with certain “conditions and restrictions,” commonly referred to as “fences.”

During this first phase of hearings, the Delta MEC Merger Committee’s direct case will expand upon the points made in the Pre-Hearing Statement, and they will submit to the Panel a comprehensive proposed integration methodology that will meet ALPA Merger Policy’s “fair and equitable” standard.

The Northwest Merger Representatives provided the Panel with their Pre-Hearing Statement in which they proposed that the two lists should be integrated by “date of hire,” subject to certain conditions and restrictions.

To provide you with a convenient method to follow the progress of the SLI hearings, the Delta MEC website now includes a separate webpage dedicated to Seniority List Integration. You may access the SLI webpage by clicking on the appropriate icon (shown to the right).

The SLI webpage has been populated with the SLI Process Agreement, past MEC Updates related to the SLI process, and the Pre-Hearing Statements of both parties. A court reporter will be present during each hearing day and will provide the Arbitration Panel and both parties with official transcripts of the hearings. These transcripts will be posted on the SLI webpage of the Delta MEC website as soon as practicable after receipt of the transcripts in order to provide you with an accurate and unbiased record of the hearings.* We strongly urge pilots who want to follow the hearings to carefully read the transcripts rather than rely on reports from others.


Throughout the months leading up these hearings, the Delta MEC has been consistent in its belief that the best integrated seniority list is a negotiated list, and a negotiated seniority list is still achievable prior to the award of an arbitrated list. Despite the inability to yet reach a negotiated agreement, your MEC will not be deterred from continuing to pursue a fair and equitable resolution (as described in our Pre-Hearing Statement) through arbitration – one that we believe will approximate a fairly-bargained settlement and that will generate solidarity and unity within the 12,000+ strong combined pilot group.

As a reminder, the schedule for the SLI Arbitration Hearings is reproduced below. The hearings will be open except to members of the news media. Admittance to non-reserved seating will be on a space available basis with equal access for attendees from both the Delta and Northwest pilot groups. Appropriate dress is business casual or pilot uniform.
 

d.fitz

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So, as expected, we'll be somewhere in between... everyone a little pi$$ed...
 

ASA_DFW

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Just read both opening statements. Interesting info. I did not know that the 747 and A330 were considered NWA"s super-premium widebody flying.

In the beginning it was premium widebody flying. Now it is super-premium widebody flying. Next week it will be super-duper premium widebody flying.
 
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General Lee

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Who was the last group asking for DOH? Oh, that's right. USAir East.

Bye Bye--General Lee
 

anewunion

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NWA should have hired Johnny C. for this one. You didn't need all five pages of the brief to explain how we should just go with DOH.
 

General Lee

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NWA should have hired Johnny C. for this one. You didn't need all five pages of the brief to explain how we should just go with DOH.

Johnny C. is dead, just like your proposal should be.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 

ThisistheDream

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After we get fences so we can all stay in the same current aircraft and be happy, what happens when the aircraft you wanted and got fence protection in is relocated to a new base that you dont want so then you have to commute??? ex. NWA pilots dtw msp based 747-400 pilots now having to commute to ATL or DAL ATL 767 pilots now having commuting to SEA??
 

General Lee

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After we get fences so we can all stay in the same current aircraft and be happy, what happens when the aircraft you wanted and got fence protection in is relocated to a new base that you dont want so then you have to commute??? ex. NWA pilots dtw msp based 747-400 pilots now having to commute to ATL or DAL ATL 767 pilots now having commuting to SEA??
What about when (not if) the 742s are parked, and some of the DC9s? What about when the 787s are traded for 777s? What about when we get 25 more MD90s and stick them in MSP? Who flies what? Good questions........... Hey, what is "Super Duper smell my pooper Premium Widebody flying?" That is crazy, and you NWA guys know it. The 767-300 isn't a widebody? We brought our 757 rates UP TO the 767s. Ahhhhh, forget it. Like Frank the Tank said in Old School---"Yoooouuuurrrr'ee craaaazzzy, I like you, but yoooooouuurrr'ee craazzy....." (after he shot himself with the dart gun)


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
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Muskycat

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What about when (not if) the 742s are parked, and some of the DC9s? What about when the 787s are traded for 777s? What about when we get 25 more MD90s and stick them in MSP? Who flies what? Good questions........... Hey, what is "Super Duper smell my pooper Premium Widebody flying?" That is crazy, and you NWA guys know it. The 767-300 isn't a widebody? We brought our 757 rates UP TO the 767s. Ahhhhh, forget it. Like Frank the Tank said in Old School---"Yoooouuuurrrr'ee craaaazzzy, I like you, but yoooooouuurrr'ee craazzy....." (after he shot himself with the dart gun)


Bye Bye---General Lee

We have already up'd our order for 777. Boeing is on a gag order so as to keep it quiet. The reason to keep it hush hush is due to financing, which is being provided by a Overseas bank. And that's all I can say. Be interesting to see if it comes out in these hearings.
Far as calling widebodies "super" and asking for DOH sounds like nwa has a week case. Not sure why they would waste time going for DOH when history has shown don't bother asking an arbitrator for it. Nothing like wasting time asking for something your not going to get.
 

Scope out RJ's

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We have already up'd our order for 777. Boeing is on a gag order so as to keep it quiet. The reason to keep it hush hush is due to financing, which is being provided by a Overseas bank. And that's all I can say. Be interesting to see if it comes out in these hearings.
Far as calling widebodies "super" and asking for DOH sounds like nwa has a week case. Not sure why they would waste time going for DOH when history has shown don't bother asking an arbitrator for it. Nothing like wasting time asking for something your not going to get.
Nobody ever accused the NW mec of having any kind of intelligence. Look at their history of infighting between the books. Also look at how they haven't settled anything outside of arbitration. Its much easier to blame the arbitrator then to actually have to do what you were elected to do.
 

vprMatrix

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I love that the A330 is Super-Premium compared to the 777 based on the two airlines chosen seating configuration. In other words, because Delta chose to install more "Super-Premium" First Class seats at the expense coach seating the A330 is a better plane.

Lets see what the manufactures have to say:

A330-200---A330-300---777-200ER---777-200LR

32/211------ 34/264-------50/218---------43/233---Seating
6750--------- 5650---------7700------------9380------Range
515.7K-------515.8K------656K-----------766K-----MRW

It is absolutely unbelievable that the NW negotiating team has make the case that the 330 is better (and deserving of higher seniority consideration) than the 777 based solely on the 330-300 having more seats installed.

??????? :bomb:
 

nwaredtail

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I love that the A330 is Super-Premium compared to the 777 based on the two airlines chosen seating configuration. In other words, because Delta chose to install more "Super-Premium" First Class seats at the expense coach seating the A330 is a better plane.

Lets see what the manufactures have to say:

A330-200---A330-300---777-200ER---777-200LR

32/211------ 34/264-------50/218---------43/233---Seating
6750--------- 5650---------7700------------9380------Range
515.7K-------515.8K------656K-----------766K-----MRW

It is absolutely unbelievable that the NW negotiating team has make the case that the 330 is better (and deserving of higher seniority consideration) than the 777 based solely on the 330-300 having more seats installed.

??????? :bomb:
How many 777's on DAL property right now? Because that is all that will matter, but you know that right? You know that because you have looked into past arbitrations and seen how the arbitrators feel about "future options, correct?

DAL bashes NWA's old airplanes, NWA bashed DAL's light twins.
 

d.fitz

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It's called negotiating! Of course they are starting there.... What do you think they would say?
 

Superpilot92

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Dunno?
You guys go ahead and get worked up about something that is out of your hands. Get that blood pressure rising and medical out ;)

Both sides are going for opposites and it will likely meet in the middle. Bottom line is its pointless to argue like 2nd graders about this stuff.
 

hockeypilot44

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I would put the 330 and 777 on the same level. I do put the 330 above the 767 though. My opinion does not matter. I do have to question why the NWA MEC would take the US Airways' approach after it was proven unsuccessful. Hopefully the arbitrators are smart enough to not screw the NWA pilots as bad as the US Airways' pilot, or this company will be screwed.
 

vprMatrix

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How many 777's on DAL property right now? Because that is all that will matter, but you know that right? You know that because you have looked into past arbitrations and seen how the arbitrators feel about "future options, correct?

DAL bashes NWA's old airplanes, NWA bashed DAL's light twins.
Sure, I know how many each airlines has however the case was made that seating configuration made one better than another.

The NW comparison also fails to mention the 777 on order however didn't forget the 787s on order. Also, the 21 767-400s were left out of the NW comparison of aircraft. Lets see if they would fit into the mix:

42-200 international seating configuration
5625 range
450K MTW

Hmm... Not a Super Duper Secret Ultra Premium Aircraft.

You deflected very well though. :beer:
 

PeanuckleCRJ

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A 766k pound MTOW airplane is a light twin? So that means that the A330 is a "light twin" as well, right?
 

crj567

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Just be sure and make everyone wear their Hats!

-All Hats, All The Time!!
 
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