Delta and NWA Starting Positions From First Meeting...

[Helos2Galaxy]

The NW comparison also fails to mention the 777 on order however didn't forget the 787s on order. Also, the 21 767-400s were left out of the NW comparison of aircraft. Lets see if they would fit into the mix:

..I am sure you will get credit for those 787s on order, but in reality, expect those 787s to be converted to 777s. Delta doesn't want the 787 until it is a long range airplane. The first bunch -100s (?) are not an international airplane. Delta wants the LRs which are 5-7 years away.

 

[PuffDriver]

DAL came out with what was best for the DAL side and NWA came out with something they felt was best for the NWA side. Its just negotiations. Reasonable is in the eye of the beholder and just because you see the DAL offer as reasonable doesnt mean it is. I dont blame our MEC anymore than i blame DAL mec for their strategic plans. In the end it will likely be in the middle so we can equally biche about it.

Both sides went for the Gold in hopes of getting at least the silver. time will tell. Cheers till then. :beer:

You are wrong, Delta is going for what they can defend as fair. NWA has, is, and always will adopt the outdated principle of shooting for the moon and hoping for the middle, aka USAirways.

 

[Superpilot92]

You are wrong, Delta is going for what they can defend as fair. NWA has, is, and always will adopt the outdated principle of shooting for the moon and hoping for the middle, aka USAirways.

Of course i am, I forgot everyone is wrong except for you!

 

[FBN0223]

On another note, I am seeing that DOH is unreasonable for the NWA pilots as a starting poisition. As a NWA pilot, I am honestly surprised they didn't start with dynamic seniority with DOH from the start. Date of hire doesn't do much for 3/4 of our group since our list is very senior.


Redrum

I agree. DOH with a dynamic list would have been a good opener for NWA. Starting at DOH, which is middle ground while Delta is talking ridiculous ratios, doesn't seem like a sound strategy.

Of course, considering that the arbitrators are experienced, intelligent and are easily able to spot unreasonable opening positions, it probably would be best for both pilots groups to have at least the NWA pilots taking a fair, intelligent and reasonable opening stance on this very important issue of seniority integration.

 

[Helos2Galaxy]

My guess, bottom 500 will be NWA (Compass ranked below DAL 88s), top 100 NWA (for 747-4s, above our 777s)

 

[PuffDriver]

Of course i am, I forgot everyone is wrong except for you!

Wrong again. I am wrong a lot. Just not in this case. My MEC can defend their position nicely, and show how it benefits NWA pilots as well as Delta pilots. You guys yourself said that your MEC is shooting for the moon and hoping for the middle. You cannot defend DOH, and you sure as hell cannot defend DOH with dynamic seniority. Yesterday's transcripts are now available, and our side did an excellent job of pulling the facts of where exactly both companies are going.

I hope the NWA MEC does not pull another, we want this, oh wait, we don't want that. This time is for real.

 

[Fly4hire]

You are wrong, Delta is going for what they can defend as fair. NWA has, is, and always will adopt the outdated principle of shooting for the moon and hoping for the middle, aka USAirways.

Puff,

Seriously, save it for the arbitrators. They'll listen to anything, that doesn't mean they'll agree with it. It is out of our hands now. Debating here is pointless.

 

[Sedona16]

Historically the Northwest pilot leadership has been unreasonable and hotheaded in the way they approach matters. I have a couple relatives who fly there who would agree with my assessment. In the end it probably will hurt them more than help them in these arbitration hearings.

 

[PuffDriver]

Puff,

Seriously, save it for the arbitrators. They'll listen to anything, that doesn't mean they'll agree with it. It is out of our hands now. Debating here is pointless.

Just a little play-by-play from my perspective. The Delta pilots are staying on track despite all kinds of wacko stuff from an unorganized, ill-prepared NWA MEC. The opening briefs say it all. It'll all be over in six weeks anyway. What else is there to talk about?

 

[hoover]

I don't understand why this so complicated. Both are unionized under ALPA, and ALPA had a policy of DOH right? What's the problem here? Seems to me that you just order everyone by their date of hire, and everyone maintains their current seat positions until they decide to bid something else. If you were an ATL 757 FO before, you're an ATL 757 FO after. That way no one loses anything, and everyone's seniority is respected.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

I don't understand why this so complicated. Both are unionized under ALPA, and ALPA had a policy of DOH right? What's the problem here? Seems to me that you just order everyone by their date of hire, and everyone maintains their current seat positions until they decide to bid something else. If you were an ATL 757 FO before, you're an ATL 757 FO after. That way no one loses anything, and everyone's seniority is respected.

DOH is absolutely NOT in ALPA merger policy...never mentioned.

I do agree with that you should be in the same position in the joint company..which actually is more of an argument for something closer to relative seniority. The major hiring "blobs" are mostly at slightly different places in each of the companies...as well as nwa has a number of older guys still left. As such, I think you will see in the arbitration NWA guys stacked on at the top and a few at the bottom, too. NWA has only hired ~250 since 2001..while DAL has hired just right at 700. That is a big difference toward the bottom of the list...as well as the top.

Regardless... whatever happens, happens.

I refuse to be like the USair east babies and bitch and whine about a binding agreement.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

There are reasons that both unions went around the ALPA policies. Most are quite broken. Can use some and not all.
We chose none, so here we are. Whatever happens we all get to live with it since the JPWA is binding.

Anyone do and charters lately? God that food is good.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Quite true.
I think that what you and I will see being in the first few classes will be a lot different than people in the mid to late 07 classes. Ratio on equipment puts us in the 73Nb seats and that is a huge difference. I guess we will all wait and see.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

Jesus H. Christ. Can I just go dig ditches or answer 911 calls for a living??? Listening to you nancies piss and moan about day one of a month long process is almost enough to make me want to grow a vagina. At least then I'd have an excuse for wanting to get all emotional and post here... Like I said before, it's day one (or two now.. who gives a crap).

Everybody relax. We do actually have to work together at some point, and flinging poop on an anonymous message board ain't gonna help when comes down to us all getting along well enough to make this god-forsaken job decent enough to get out of bed for.

Rest assured that the arbitrators, Captain Moak, or Captain Stevens will screw us all to some degree. Whatever.... It is what it is. I, for one, don't relish the idea of spending the next 25 years of my life dealing with this B.S. We can all be children and fling poo at each other or we can be adults and realize that our taunts and insults on this web board, no matter how clever, aren't going to influence the arbitrators, but may indeed go a long way towards fostering a lot of ill will at the "New Northwest"... oops, I mean the "New Delta"

Everybody grow up. Especially you, Armando.. oops, I mean PuffDriver..

(My apologies to anyone reading/replying to this forum who actually has a vagina...)

.

 

[NuGuy]

Jesus H. Christ. Can I just go dig ditches or answer 911 calls for a living??? Listening to you nancies piss and moan about day one of a month long process is almost enough to make me want to grow a vagina. At least then I'd have an excuse for wanting to get all emotional and post here... Like I said before, it's day one (or two now.. who gives a crap).

Everybody relax. We do actually have to work together at some point, and flinging poop on an anonymous message board ain't gonna help when comes down to us all getting along well enough to make this god-forsaken job decent enough to get out of bed for.

Rest assured that the arbitrators, Captain Moak, or Captain Stevens will screw us all to some degree. Whatever.... It is what it is. I, for one, don't relish the idea of spending the next 25 years of my life dealing with this B.S.

Everybody grow up. Especially you, Armando.. oops, I mean PuffDriver.. oops...

Ya gotta hand it to DT at Jetcareers...he keeps this crap off his forum....

Nu