Delay of 9E/XJ/9L list

[Flyer1015]

I'm still waiting for a Mesaba pilot to answer the impossible:

Not to mention, in the XJ's attempt to screw over 9E pilots on their seniority, do you realize what the other (impossible) alternative is? The only other alternative would be to align seniority date with sim date of hire. This would mean your sim date DOH would represent your seniority date, regardless of class seniority. This is the new re-alignment that would come if the XJ dispute was awarded. But think about it. The checkrides did not go in order. I went before 3 other older pilots simply because of the way training scheduling worked it out. Under the new method, you'd have to reorder the entire 9E list, and that is not allowed by ALPA bylaws. Not only that, you'd have many people jump over others they are currently junior to, because they took their sim checkride first. For example, I took mine before 3 guys did who are in my class and currently senior to me. If you XJ people want your wish and dispute to come out true, I would have to jump these 3 pilots in seniority and be considered more senior to them because of my "new" seniority being my date of hire on sim check date. This is against merger policy. You are in a catch-22.

The ONLY fair way, without having to go through the illegal mess above, is to accept Letter V and take every pilot's initial pilot newhire class date as their DOH. This is the only fair, clean way that will ensure that nothing gets ugly.

 

[CptMurf]

It was brought up, not entered as a dispute. Moral? Necessary? I think it wasn't moral to bring up something that your group already agreed to. Letter V and the Process/protocol agreement allows changes to a pilot's data until the SLI process is complete. The SLI process is not complete, therefore, per Letter V, Pinnacle pilots will have their DOHs adjusted to the date they commenced training. Class date. Disputing the OBVIOUS, printed in black ink on white paper, constitutes a CANNON fired in YOUR senority grab.

Which brings us full circle to my post on the original intent of the LOA. Forgive me if I don't accept Higneys statement. That's only 9Es side of it, I'm sure that was what his union was implying of wanted with the LOA. That does not mean that was what XJ was signing onto. Think about it... The car salesmen says he'll throw in an extended warranty, but the finance guy doesn't write it into the deal. Do you dispute it? Does that reopen negotiations? Is that a cannon fired, or are you just defending yourself?

 

[bri5150]

Don't kid yourself. XJ has already shot themselves in the foot with all 1,350 Pinnacle pilots. Add the fact a vacancy closes in less than 48 hours, that is even less movement that XJ pilots can be exposed to. Especially the junior XJ guys. Oops!

Yes, one vacancy missed is going to sway XJ pilots to vote for 9E's beautiful information leaking, JCBA sabotaging, staple wanting union leadership. How the hell do you know what was said in commitee meetings this last couple weeks anyways? It wasn't that long ago that it was stated 9E were losing those aircraft. Have they even met since then?

 

[Flyer1015]

Which brings us full circle to my post on the original intent of the LOA. Forgive me if I don't accept Higneys statement. That's only 9Es side of it, I'm sure that was what his union was implying of wanted with the LOA. That does not mean that was what XJ was signing onto. Think about it... The car salesmen says he'll throw in an extended warranty, but the finance guy doesn't write it into the deal. Do you dispute it? Does that reopen negotiations? Is that a cannon fired, or are you just defending yourself?

Higney is a rep who was physically sitting there. What more proof could you want? What you need to do is hold your reps accountable. Everything, in writing, both Letter V and Process/Protocol agreement, allow this change of sim date DOH to class date DOH. Why dispute the obvious?

 

[Flyer1015]

Yes, one vacancy missed is going to sway XJ pilots to vote for 9E's beautiful information leaking, JCBA sabotaging, staple wanting union leadership. How the hell do you know what was said in commitee meetings this last couple weeks anyways? It wasn't that long ago that it was stated 9E were losing those aircraft. Have they even met since then?

9E hasn't leaked any information. 9E has not sabotaged the JCBA. I recommend reading comprehension classes to your merger committee members, they are in dire need of it.

 

[bri5150]

Both Mesaba and Colgan already have their class date as DOH. They are arguing against Pinnacle getting class date as DOH. Instead, both want Pinnacle to use the sim date, and are trying to use ALPA's merger policy's two main definitions of date of hire to try and prove their case. So they are together against Pinnacle to try and screw them out of 2-3 months seniority on average.

No, ALWAYS is the key word. That picketing mess 9E was on it's own too. I can't recall a single thing Colgan has gone against Mesaba on.

 

[ChickenSled]

everyone got a monster raise and work rule increase except Mesaba (I personally didn't get single cent). I haven't gotten jack crap out of that except for another 15 minutes to get to the airport when scheduling calls. The hope was it would be made up in SLI. We will see I guess, but I am not getting my hopes up.

You won't get downgraded or furloughed when the Saabs get parked. That is what you were looking at. How quickly we forget. But I guess in that big head of yours, no raise in your seat is somehow worse than downgrading and taking a pay cut or being out on the street.

You are right about one thing, you shouldn't get your hopes up. I'm pretty sure you bunch of arrogant self righteous prima donna's are going to be very disappointed when the dust settles. Your MEC apparently can smell it coming and that is why they are under the table fighting for scraps right now.

 

[CptMurf]

I'm still waiting for a Mesaba pilot to answer the impossible:

Since when does you Seniority order have to be by age in class. Some ALPA carriers use last 4 of SSN. Doesn't answer how to correct you jacked up list. Just pointing out flaws in your logic.

 

[bri5150]

You won't get downgraded or furloughed when the Saabs get parked. That is what you were looking at. How quickly we forget. But I guess in that big head of yours, no raise in your seat is somehow worse than downgrading and taking a pay cut or being out on the street.

You are right about one thing, you shouldn't get your hopes up. I'm pretty sure you bunch of arrogant self righteous prima donna's are going to be very disappointed when the dust settles. Your MEC apparently can smell it coming and that is why they are under the table fighting for scraps right now.

Again the name calling. Is this what our negotiating commitees had to put up with? "I propose DOH." "You arrogant, self righteous prima donna, you will get stapled with Colgan."

 

[CptMurf]

Higney is a rep who was physically sitting there. What more proof could you want? What you need to do is hold your reps accountable. Everything, in writing, both Letter V and Process/Protocol agreement, allow this change of sim date DOH to class date DOH. Why dispute the obvious?

Our reps can put anything in writing, without running it past ALPA legal. Unlike....nevermind.

 

[CptMurf]

You won't get downgraded or furloughed when the CRJs are given away. That is what you are looking at. How quickly we forget. But I guess in that big head of yours, you deserved that big raise.

You are right about one thing, you shouldn't get your hopes up. I'm pretty sure you bunch of arrogant self righteous prima donna's are going to be very disappointed when the dust settles. Your MEC apparently can smell it coming and that is why they are under the table fighting for scraps right now.

Fixed it for you.

 

[Flyer1015]

The bottom line is the Letter V states exactly what it does. Your union signed onto the JCBA and agreed to it. Now if they thought the "intent" was different, then they should have gone through, page by page, and made sure the "intent" was proper. Or, they were like most politicians, and just signed the bill without actually reading through it. Letter V is clearl, concise, and obvious. There is absolutely nothing in Letter V to hint anything about travel benefits. Only XJ could come up with a fairy tale like that.

 

[Flyer1015]

Fixed it for you.

Such arrogance! Are you blind to the fact that all of your Saabs are being parked? The Delta/US Air deal will go through, and the LGA flying will end. Mesaba would have been nothing more than the next Comair, down to 60 RJs only after having at one point been a 100+ aircraft operator. Your writing was on the wall. The 3 planes we lost weren't suppose to be full time at Pinnacle anyway. Two of them were gained during the repainting phase last year, as a way to make up some capacity while our planes hit the Greenville paint shop. These additions were never to be permanent. You comparing our loss of 3 RJs is nothing in comparison to the Saabs. The main difference being the Saabs are gone, per Delta. There is no ASA for them. Pinnacle's RJs have ASAs.

 

[CptMurf]

The bottom line is the Letter V states exactly what it does. Your union signed onto the JCBA and agreed to it. Now if they thought the "intent" was different, then they should have gone through, page by page, and made sure the "intent" was proper. Or, they were like most politicians, and just signed the bill without actually reading through it. Letter V is clearl, concise, and obvious. There is absolutely nothing in Letter V to hint anything about travel benefits. Only XJ could come up with a fairy tale like that.

Not a lawyer but...

V. Pinnacle Pilots’ Date of Hire Correction
A Pinnacle Pilot who is hired prior to February 18, 2011 shall have his date of hire adjusted to the first day such Pilot commenced training, however, the pilot’s longevity date shall not be adjusted.

This does not state for "SLI" or "Travel Benefits" or "Calling 'Shotgun'"

Really, I don't care either way. But are you so closed minded to see that this could not be a valid argument? It's not personal, just a position. A valid one, I think.

 

[CptMurf]

Such arrogance! Are you blind to the fact that all of your Saabs are being parked? The Delta/US Air deal will go through, and the LGA flying will end. Mesaba would have been nothing more than the next Comair, down to 60 RJs only after having at one point been a 100+ aircraft operator. Your writing was on the wall. The 3 planes we lost weren't suppose to be full time at Pinnacle anyway. Two of them were gained during the repainting phase last year, as a way to make up some capacity while our planes hit the Greenville paint shop. These additions were never to be permanent. You comparing our loss of 3 RJs is nothing in comparison to the Saabs. The main difference being the Saabs are gone, per Delta. There is no ASA for them. Pinnacle's RJs have ASAs.

Pot meet kettle.

Do you not realize you bring a large fleet of obsolete aircraft that are and have been on the chopping block. This merger gives you just as much protections are those Saab drivers.

Talk about arrogance.