Decade long rumor of SWA buying Q400's back

[scoreboardII]

Anything is possible, but right now, no. At least we would not vote for it given current management distrust.

 

[waveflyer]

Definite no for me and everyone I've talked to

If it has the SWA logo, we fly it and deal with the issues ourselves

 

[redflyer65]

Yea. Get back to me when the SWAPA group stops picking up open time.

Maybe you need to back off the caffeine a little Freight. I never said the SW pilots were there. Could we be pushed there? Maybe.

See what Score wrote above. I agree 100%.

 

[waveflyer]

Would it be allowed if the pilots were on the SWAPA seniority list and operated under a separate section of the SWAPA contract?

Kind of like when NWA set up Compass.

Why on earth would we even contemplate another group doing the flying instead of us?

 

[redflyer65]

Would it be allowed if the pilots were on the SWAPA seniority list and operated under a separate section of the SWAPA contract?

Kind of like when NWA set up Compass.

No. I think there would be plenty of unity on that question.

 

[Saluki Dawg]

Would it be allowed if the pilots were on the SWAPA seniority list and operated under a separate section of the SWAPA contract?

Kind of like when NWA set up Compass.

Yes it would, and that's most likely what would happen in the event of a transaction.

 

[Flyby1206]

Why on earth would we even contemplate another group doing the flying instead of us?

It would be your group. You, waveflyer, could bid to fly the Q400 and transfer to the Horizon certificate. You would have to go through a new indoc course in addition to systems training. You could then bid to transfer back to the SWA certificate and fly the 737. All Horizon and SWA pilots would be on the same seniority list, and could bid to transfer between airframes, but there would be a different Flight Operations Manual for the two.

A 737 and a Q400 would have different operational requirements, such as departing VFR and picking up a clearance enroute (I doubt they allow the 737 to do that, right?), or maybe allow pax deplaning/enplaning with 1 engine running. Point being, if you want SWA pilots to fly the plane then you have to find a way to allow mgmt to operate the T-prop differently that the 737.

 

[Tarheelherk]

I think this is more about the pilot development pipeline for the future. How is SWA going to fill future seats? Most other majors are positioned for pilot development through their own company structure. Why can't we control our own pilot development? Having two pilot groups on the same property causes so much angst and distrust. I'm still shocked and disappointed in my future group in not immediately moving to represent all SWA pilots, wholly owned or main line. I hope we aren't that short sighted again.

 

[Dan Roman]

Why on earth would we even contemplate another group doing the flying instead of us?

Somewhat similar to our discussion about HA's turboprops.
No easy answers but I think it's safe to say that....

1) SWA cannot operate those A/C and pay your 737 wages.

2) If you operate them with pilots on your seniority list you effectively create a B scale group of pilots doing some of your flying for less than what others on the property are getting paid.

3) you create a vehicle for SWA to replace some 737 flying with cheaper turboprop flights.

4) You will open up a Pandoras box that will eventually morph into something you didn't expect.

5) If you don't get turboprops you will continue to lose market share domestically that is being done by other turboprop operators.

In other words, the cat's out of the bag on turboprop/RJ flying industry wide and there is no easy fix. The best hope is going to be supply and demand driving up wages for those pilots.

 

[Dan Roman]

And don't forget SWA was the airline that was going to do all their International expansion with Volaris and West Jet 737 pilots at one point. We all live in glass houses.

 

[Dan Roman]

on the plus side you can taxi a Q400 really fast.....I kid! I kid! :beer:

 

[redflyer65]

And don't forget SWA was the airline that was going to do all their International expansion with Volaris and West Jet 737 pilots at one point. We all live in glass houses.

What?

We are doing it ourselves now, with the help of AirTran. Not sure about the glass houses though...

Those were the only two carriers we approved for codeshare. Now, pretty much defunct.

 

[Dan Roman]

My apologies if I was wrong, I thought SWA had proposed code sharing with Volaris and West Jet, long before you AirTran merger. Next contract you were able to stop it?

 

[waveflyer]

Somewhat similar to our discussion about HA's turboprops.
No easy answers but I think it's safe to say that....

1) SWA cannot operate those A/C and pay your 737 wages.
Why not? Are you confused about blended rates as well. And I'm no hypocrit, I want blended rates for wide body flying as well- and remember - we added 6 passengers through evolve seating and got no extra pay, and agreed to fly -800's for no extra pay- there is some capital we haven't cashed in on.

2) If you operate them with pilots on your seniority list you effectively create a B scale group of pilots doing some of your flying for less than what others on the property are getting paid.see above

3) you create a vehicle for SWA to replace some 737 flying with cheaper turboprop flights.see above, and it goes in the who cares category

4) You will open up a Pandoras box that will eventually morph into something you didn't expect.i agree IF we do some compass type deal and definitely if we allow any domestic code share

5) If you don't get turboprops you will continue to lose market share domestically that is being done by other turboprop operators. not many fly turboprops anymore, and RJs are not cheap or or worth the market share- make no mistake, domestic outsourcing has morphed into simple greed and seniority busting, nothing more

In other words, the cat's out of the bag on turboprop/RJ flying industry wide and there is no easy fix. The best hope is going to be supply and demand driving up wages for those pilots.

I would rather be part of the fix and make the statement that major airline pilots can fly Q's and do it well and profitably- just got to think outside the alpa /legacy box- which I assume there's no argument is an absolute train wreck.??

I liken this conversation to SOUTHWEST.COM

The travel websites revolutionized the industry, but we decided not to use those and control our brand on our own website.
Very few have regretted that decision.
This is very similar.
Code share should be reserved in very limited fashion to those places we CANNOT go to-
Bakersfield, Pasco, and Knoxville are not places we cannot go

AND---

The Q could save a LOT of jobs in west Texas and Oklahoma that are in serious jeopardy after Wright amendment restrictions go away- legacy stations that deserve better than corporate 'who moved my cheese' "change"catch phrases

Think beyond flying and how SWA is struggling with unions about stations that won't have the frequency that has always made us work
And we all know frequency stimulates demand...
We do not have to outsource to protect jobs in a lot of our departments

 

[scoreboardII]

And don't forget SWA was the airline that was going to do all their International expansion with Volaris and West Jet 737 pilots at one point. We all live in glass houses.

And how did that end up? Maybe one tenth of one hundredth of a percent of our passengers flew those codeshare lines. GK couldn't even pull a number out for those miniscule revenue numbers. Which are oh by the way, now and forever verboten. I like to think while we may live in a glass house, it has a pretty bullet proof window.

To your point 5 above, RJ's are going away or at least trending larger. They are morphing into a cheap 737. We own that market.

However, up to 500NM stage lengths, a turboprop kicks everything's tail. They break even at the 6-900 and only start to lose above that because of flight time. I can easily see a future of legacies having one blended rate for all flying. The only reason not to is to keep the antiquated seniority pyramid system alive and well, which plays handily into managements hands of divide and conquer.