Decade long rumor of SWA buying Q400's back

waveflyer

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Friend back from a PC last week and noted that this old rumor is back on the heels of horizon financial success. Both Dallas and Baltimore check airman chatting about it.
Apparently SWA lawyers were up in canada

I'm a bit bored with this particular subject bc it's really old. Was there in early 2000's. Again with the Frontier proposal in '09, now again 5 years later. It is still risky from a public perception standpoint.
Great plane. Great numbers.
Next gen version just announced
http://www.bombardier.com/content/b...showcasesq400nextgenaircra.bombardiercom.html

I'd fly it in a heartbeat. A good turboprop schedule and that type flying can be a great life- and most pilots here do talk about blended rates that pay the same as other SWA pilots- which was always the biggest downer about turboprops- and with up to 86 seats, there are possibilities
As for perception, what's better for communities who aren't getting other mainline service? No service or q400 prop service? Could the Bakersfield's of the world realize that the Q is miles ahead of other turboprops and embrace them?

The conversation's been had
In spades

Found this from '03- http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/print.main?id=1202368

What I enjoy hearing is how lock step Swapa pilots seem to be: great plane, could open up a lot of profitable markets and natural feed into the existing system,.... AND if the SWA logo is on it, we will fly it.
I would love to make that statement actually. Prove that the legacy long con of domestic outsourcing could be turned on its heels

So speculate away
Especially if you've flown it
 
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SpauldingSmails

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Well I gotta admit a Q-400 would look pretty cool in SW paint, especially if there are SW pilots at the controls. I'd be shocked though if it actually happened.

Thus, I will happily remit to you, via PayPal, the value of one case of domestic beer following the first revenue flight of a Q-400 (or heck, any other non-jet aircraft or any jet with an MGTOW less than 90,000lbs) as operated by SW pilots.

It would be a great thing for the industry. Regrettably, I think my pittance is safe.
 

FurloughedAgain

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Make that two (although the Q400, or the 717 for that matter, would have been a great high frequency intra-Texas machine)
 

fr8doggie

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Rocky Mountain High?

I'd fly it in a heartbeat. A good turboprop schedule and that type flying can be a great life- and most pilots here do talk about blended rates that pay the same as other SWA pilots- which was always the biggest downer about turboprops- and with up to 86 seats, there are possibilities

What I enjoy hearing is how lock step Swapa pilots seem to be: great plane, could open up a lot of profitable markets and natural feed into the existing system,.... AND if the SWA logo is on it, we will fly it.
I would love to make that statement actually. Prove that the legacy long con of domestic outsourcing could be turned on its heels

So speculate away
Especially if you've flown it

Wave:

Are you sure you don't live in CO? First Heavies and now T-props. I'm sure that all SWAPA pilots would be willing to take a very large pay cut in order to "blend" current SWA rates with a Q400.

Horizon year 18 Q400 Capt: $114/hr
SWA year 12 Capt: 216/hr

Above information per APC.

Blend Away!!

I'd fly a C-130 or DHC-6 here at FDX in a heartbeat if they paid $270/hr. My current rate in the MD-11.

Yours,
Fr8doggie
 

General Lee

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I personally think SWA should buy Horizon from AK somehow and kick all of their pilots to the SO rank, only doing walk arounds and Jumpseating from city to city. Then pay them half of what they make now, and extend the joint contract to 10 years from now, and bring over guys back to the FO seat at a rate of 30 per year. That would make the Corndog CEO and union happy!


TIC


Bye Bye---General Lee
 

General Lee

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A job offering from Westjet for Encore found on the Net via Google:



Career Opportunities: Captain & First Officer- WestJet Encore - 2014 - Calgary/Toronto bases (22629)
Job Number 22629 - Posted 05/20/2014 - Flight Operations - Calgary, AB (YYC) - English Only - WestJet Encore


Salary Band: Band QPA

Posting Open Date: 05/21/2014
Posting Close Date: 12/30/2014 (Please note the posting will close at 11:59pm EST)

CAPTAIN AND FIRST OFFICER - WESTJET ENCORE - 2014 CALGARY/TORONTO BASES

Do you want to be part of the WestJet family? Do you have the energy, enthusiasm and commitment to help build the greatest low-cost regional airline in Canada with the greatest Q400 pilot career opportunities in the country?

We thought you might.

HERE'S WHY YOU SHOULD BE HERE:

You become an owner with a voice that matters. Because owners care, we choose to collaborate with our people and in doing so, we make great business decisions together. We also have a lot of fun doing what we do because we take our jobs seriously but not ourselves.

As an owner, you will participate in our employee share purchase plan, where up to 10 per cent of your contributions are matched dollar for dollar by WestJet. It's the best plan in the industry.

Earn a share of our profits with our profit sharing program. Since 1996, WestJet has shared more than $300,000,000 with WestJetters.

Stay healthy with our flexible benefits plan that includes health, dental and more, with a 50/50 cost-share split. Plus, we have wellness programs and strategies to help guide and reinforce a healthy lifestyle.

Travel privileges that include WestJet's extensive network along with access to the privileges associated with our many global partners. We will get you around the world with no seniority constraints. It's equal access for all WestJetters.

Grow your career with opportunities to fly with WestJet's 737s. WestJet and WestJet Encore have built a "flow through program" that will allow WestJet Encore pilots career progression opportunities to the WestJet 737 operation.

Sharing interests and solving problems, you will be part of the solution at WestJet Encore by participating in the pilot association. They're a team of aviation professionals who partner with both the business and pilots to create sustainable working conditions that are in the pilot's and company's best interests.

Flexible shift trading system.


WestJet Encore is looking to hire Captains with the following terms of employment:

$68/hour and $38/hour respective of seat
Meal cost replacement of $2.97 for time away from base of operation
Minimum guarantee of 80 hours/month
Maximum days worked/month is 20
Opportunity for overtime at 1.5 the straight time rate


WHICH CHARACTERISTICS MAKE A PILOT A WESTJET ENCORE PILOT?

WestJet has developed the greatest Boeing 737 pilot jobs in Canada because we started with the right people and trusted them to make the right decisions. Now we are doing it again for WestJet Encore

Our pilots are leaders and hold themselves to the highest personal and professional standards at all times. We employ and attract the best of the best. Behind the controls, WestJet pilots focus on safe and comfortable on-time performance.

On the ground, their important role as leaders continues they step up and lend a helping hand when and where needed. It's a team effort all the way around! Their help ranges from helping crew members groom the aircraft to assisting guests with bags and special needs to always sharing the workload with fellow crew members.

We're looking for people who will create remarkable experiences each and every day. Our people believe in taking care of people and choose to care each day. Through dedication and hard work, WestJet pilots help to make WestJet an aviation success story.


MUST HAVE QUALIFICATIONS:

Legally entitled to work in Canada
Transport Canada Airline Transport Pilot?s license (ATPL)
1,500 hours total time
500 hours fixed-wing pilot-in-command time (Multi Engine PIC preferred)
500 hours fixed-wing multi-engine time
500 hours multi-crew experience
Valid Transport Canada Class 1 instrument rating
Valid Transport Canada Class 1 medical certificate
High school diploma
Oral and written proficiency in English
Valid Canadian passport, or a Canadian permanent resident card and individual visas necessary to operate within WestJet's network.
Valid Canadian Air Transport Security Authority (CATSA) restricted area identity card (RAIC). Note: RAIC may be obtained during initial training, but must be valid no later than six weeks from the commencement of ground school.


DESIRABLE ASSETS:

Scheduled airline and/or military flight experience
Glass flight deck and/or FMS experience
Post-secondary degrees/diplomas
Proficiency in a second language(s)
Internal WestJet and or WestJet Encore referrals.






Looks like there is a flow up "opportunity" for Encore pilots to Westjet.



Bye Bye---General Lee
 
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PCL_128

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Wavey, if you think your bean counter CEO is going to offer you turboprops to fly at mainline pay rates, you really are smoking some crazy stuff.
 

General Lee

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Wavey, if you think your bean counter CEO is going to offer you turboprops to fly at mainline pay rates, you really are smoking some crazy stuff.

Looks like the Westjet CEO didn't do it. The Westjet pilots also may get some widebodies to fly to Hawaii from Calgary and Edmonton, they currently wet lease a 757 from a British charter company. I bet there will be a carrot dangled.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
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waveflyer

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Wavey, if you think your bean counter CEO is going to offer you turboprops to fly at mainline pay rates, you really are smoking some crazy stuff.

It's a turboprop with 86 seats that'll unarguably be flying more challenging flying

And all alpa knows is devalueing the prop flying it's legacy was built on-
That said the Q isn't a Saab- I think you guys need to check what Q400 flying pays worldwide- but in any case, I don't and have never shared that defeatist mentality.

We fly them or they don't get ordered.

And same blended rate applies to Heavies.
I want SWAPA pilots to ALL be valued, to stay unified together, and not play into the divide and conquer of split rates.

That has always been my stance and it is huge for pilot leverage and individual freedom and quality of life.

The LAST thing I want is to devolve into the same dynamics that lead to pilots chasing money and size regardless of personal preference because they are financially obligated to
 

PCL_128

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What your "stance" is is irrelevant. Your CEO ain't gonna allow it, and your union is weak. You'll fly -900s for the same rate and you'll like it, and if Qs ever come along, you'll outsource those just like everyone else has, and you'll like that too. Why? Because Gary says so, and you lick his boots.
 

redflyer65

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Ugh. That was the most disgusting post I've ever seen on here.

SWAPA wouldn't rollover on pay for a Q400 (not that I think we get them anyway)

SWAPA has the best codeshare and scope in the industry, you think that happened just because we 'took whatever Gary is going to hand us'?

All you need to do is compare SWAPA's Section 1 vs. any ALPA carrier. ALPA has been a complete failure in that regard. TONS of outsourcing that has actually cost them millions (possibly billions) in dues paying members. At least they still have enough income to buy 3 thousand dollar dinners.
 

fr8doggie

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SWAPA wouldn't rollover on pay for a Q400 (not that I think we get them anyway)

SWAPA has the best codeshare and scope in the industry, you think that happened just because we 'took whatever Gary is going to hand us'?


How exactly did it happen? You 'fought' for it? Your management really isn't that interested in code share or you'd have it.

I don't think you would rollover on Q400 pay but $200+/hr? I don't think so...
 

Saluki Dawg

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I don't think that WN is going to purchase new Q400s from Bombardier. I think they could purchase the Q400 by way of Merger or Acquisition of Alaska Air Group. I would be willing to bet that's what the company is actually looking at. In that scenario the Q400s would continue to be Operated by Horizon Pilots and wholly owned by Southwest Airlines. They don't even have to change the name. Instead of Alaska Horizon it will become Southwest Horizon.;)
 

redflyer65

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How exactly did it happen? You 'fought' for it? Your management really isn't that interested in code share or you'd have it.

I don't think you would rollover on Q400 pay but $200+/hr? I don't think so...

Yea, I think Gary would like codeshare. You don't?

200/hr for the same plane? Sign me up. How is that rolling over?
 

jonjuan

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Yea, I think Gary would like codeshare. You don't?
Oh now he would, no doubt. However, when the legacies started to buy RJs en masse, the ONLY reason SWA management didn't is that it didn't mesh with their biz model. You didn't have to fight for jack squat.
 

fr8doggie

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Yea, I think Gary would like codeshare. You don't?

200/hr for the same plane? Sign me up. How is that rolling over?


You're not reading what I wrote. Your management doesn't want code share enough to force it on you or you'd have it.

As for pay rates, I said you wouldn't roll over. Wave seems to think the Q400 would pay the same as you are currently for 737 flying. I think not.

You guys have a great contract and a very good flying job. Your opinion of your ability to influence SWA management is over inflated IMO. Much like FDX you live off of the good will of your corporate masters.
 

redflyer65

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You didn't have to fight for jack squat.


You think the contract improvements happened in a vacuum?

We've tightened scope and codeshare the last two contracts. We allowed for near international codeshare, then the second bite at the apple we specified only ONE carrier...Volaris.

You guys look at our contract and think we did nothing to get there, but then argue that our management is disingenuous but also just hands us things for free. Which is it?

I guess Fred Smith just hands things out as well. You seriously think that?
 
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