Day guarantee at Delta?

[Babylon]

SWA guys - I've been told your average pay is usually 6.5-8.5 trips per day (so let's say 7.5 trips per day). That probably equates to about 7 hours per day or so when you convert your trips to hours. Is this accurate? Whenever I've actually seen someone's trip/pairing printout it usually looks something like this - they're working 13 days or so and making about 1176 trips per year or 1000 "hours" per year. That sounds reasonable.

For some reason we must have the highest paid SWA guys on this bulletin board (and I've never seen an actual trip of theirs either) because they somehow seem to make around 1200 "hours" per year working about 10 days a month. Which is the more accurate?

13 days a month for 1176 trips at about $101 for 5th year FO rate equals about $120K/yr which sounds reasonable and matches up to what most guys say, other than the ones on this board of course.

 

[Slug]

Example SWA month

Here is my October stats to give you an idea:

Block: 92+16 hours
Credit: 115.64 TFP (trips for pay)
Days worked: 15 (16 off)


I fly alot during the winter to make up for my slacker summer months. I've got two boys that play travel baseball, hence I don't pick up much during the spring and summer.

In August:

Block: 66 hours
Credit: 88.90 TFP
Days worked: 12


I will total out at about 750 hours for the year in total block. This year I will end up in the $140k range for gross pay. I'm on 5th year pay on the scale...in my 4th year. My pay rate is $104.26. Hope this helps clear up SWA's look at pay and schedule.


Slug


p.s. Here are my December numbers fresh from the bid. Realize the block total will be slightly less due to underflying the projected block. Historically, I would guess that we underfly by about 5% of the total. I haven't picked anything up yet, I'll probably add 2 to 3 more days to get my total TFPs up to about 110-115.

Projected Block: 78+30
Projected Credit: 90.5
Days worked: 12

 

[LandGreen]

That sucks. Hope you get something better down the line.

You know...it is kinda funny! These SWA CA's must be pretty embarrassed by these new hires that come on here and post this stuff. Last month they were in the military or regionals, sucked all the koolaid down and now they can comment on duty rigs/work rules/ etc like they have been in this industry for YEARS!

SWA has had and still is doing great...but 8-10 years ago the legacies were pleading with their pilots to accept lower wages because of SWA paying A LOT less. Now that SWA is the big dog, they will bear the pressure (like the legacies have had to do prior 9-11) to keep their work rules, wages, medical etc.

So instead of making a typical FNG response like: That sucks...hope you get something better down the line(translated: look what we have!! TIC!)

This is what your CA would have said who has been around this industry for some time. Next time listen to him/her:

"this industry is so fragile. Everyone is vulnerable. it is terrible that those guys lost a 180,000 year pension, lost about $100/hr CA pay per a/c, but now it is OUR responsibility to maintain or better or pay and workrules when our mgt comes to us for cuts."

Hopefully this will help ALL pilots by establishing a baseline payrate on the 737 that was negotiated by a LCC.

 

[Babylon]

Here is my October stats to give you an idea:

Block: 92+16 hours
Credit: 115.64 TFP (trips for pay)
Days worked: 15 (16 off)


I fly alot during the winter to make up for my slacker summer months. I've got two boys that play travel baseball, hence I don't pick up much during the spring and summer.

In August:

Block: 66 hours
Credit: 88.90 TFP
Days worked: 12


I will total out at about 750 hours for the year in total block. This year I will end up in the $140k range for gross pay. I'm on 5th year pay on the scale...in my 4th year. My pay rate is $104.26. Hope this helps clear up SWA's look at pay and schedule.


Slug


p.s. Here are my December numbers fresh from the bid. Realize the block total will be slightly less due to underflying the projected block. Historically, I would guess that we underfly by about 5% of the total. I haven't picked anything up yet, I'll probably add 2 to 3 more days to get my total TFPs up to about 110-115.

Projected Block: 78+30
Projected Credit: 90.5
Days worked: 12

Thanks a lot for that response - very informative. The numbers still don't seem to add up though. To get to that $140K/yr you've got to fly an average of 112 trips a month. With your low flying in the summer are you saying you're flying about 130 trips a month in the winter months? Can you even do that and remain in the FAR flight time limits? Are you counting your per diem when doing the calculations?

It certainly seems like if guys fly their received bids they're making a lot less than anyone posts here - basically about 1000 trips per year - so the "average" 5 year guy like yourself would be making about $104k. Now it seems like just about everyone here picks up extra trips (so I guess your system has a ton of extra and is basically based on guys working 14-15 days a month and therefore keeps the pilot hiring lower but allows a lot of overtime by those on the seniority list??). If not, then guys must be dropping trips somewhere along the line to allow for all these guys to pick up extra - and therefore the guys dropping trips are making a lot less than the "average" $104K thereby allowing those picking up trips to make your average of $140??

Thanks

 

[Slug]

There are some other things in there that I didn't account for.

Vacation will drop your block total for the year. I get 2 weeks of that. Probably drop a total of 50 block hours, but pick up 75 TFPs.

Another factor is training. We get paid for training, but it has no block time. It is generally around 25 TFPs in a year.

I have also had some sick time this year. I get paid, but don't block any time.

There are also incentives/or sorry we screwed you pay events. These events get pay x 1.5. An example is I finish up a trip and scheduling meets me at the jetway....."hey, you're flying tomorrow." I get time and a half for that extra. A lot of times when you get nabbed for extra fly, there is a deadhead, which is paid at 100%.

My highest TFP for the year has probably been 125ish. My lowest was in August at 88. I pick up when I can and when I can't I don't. I would say over a year I average about 105-110. I try to do it efficiently. I look for good paying days. I try to average 7.5 to 8 credits a day.

The average line in December (MDW/FO) paid 97.83 credits and had 17.65 days off.

Slug

 

[Babylon]

Okay I get it - you guys are basically working extra - working on months you have vacation and working on months you have training and that makes the difference.

Good money at SWA no doubt but you definitely have to work to make it. Rigs are kind of pointless there since you will earn your money on hard time and there are no "good deals". I like the day flying but don't like the inflexibility for days off. It seems like most of your hotels are not downtown but near the airport?? I talked to a guy that was flying Portland -San Diego stuff this week and said neither hotel was downtown?

Trying to get the skinny - I work at Fedex and my 31 year old brother is getting out of the Navy with a 73 type already (Navy flying) and trying for UPS, Fedex or SWA.

 

[Slug]

Babs, you sound so negative all of a sudden. I do work in my vacation month. I generally convert my 1 week into about 10 days via drops. Anything dropped is paid for (for the most part). My months with training are lower block months. My months with vacation are lower block months. I work fewer days than other months on average with vacation or training, but I get paid more. Its not that hard.

Our rigs do kick in on occasion, but we are scheduled efficiently. The company doesn't want to pay us for sitting around for 3 hours in an airport. We get paid to fly. If the rigs kick in, under normal circumstances, I feel that I was gone more than I got paid.

As for hotels, it depends on what city, a.m. or p.m. schedule, and if your overnight is long or short. In PHL, all our hotels are downtown. In FLL we may be on the beach, at the airport, or near a mall. In LAX we stay at the airport hotel row. It just depends. In OMA we are downtown. In BOI we are downtown. It just varies. I worked for UAL prior to 9/11 and our hotels now at SWA are as good or better than UAL's. We get great deals in good-great hotels. I only have a couple that I don't care for. Most I like. Its a hotel - we don't have huge, long overnights to become hotel connosieurs. 20 hours would be extremely long and rare. 14 to 17 hours is common.

Our schedule is very flexible. I can drop/trade/pickup pretty much anything, anytime. I don't know where you got your info, but I'd check a couple of sources. In the end its all a crap shoot. Good luck to your brother.


Slug

 

[Whataburger]

Those are the minimum hours for line holders, not what the average 2 or 3 day is. We have plenty of 3 days worth 16-18 hours, and some 2 days worth close to 14.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Our worst 3-days are 19.5 TFP. Average around 22, and lots with 23ish. There are some in our "Trip drop" worth 24.5 and 26. 2-days average 15TFP. It's easy to find one that pays 16ish.
It's easy to average 7-7.5TFP/day.

 

[General Lee]

Our worst 3-days are 19.5 TFP. Average around 22, and lots with 23ish. There are some in our "Trip drop" worth 24.5 and 26. 2-days average 15TFP. It's easy to find one that pays 16ish.
It's easy to average 7-7.5TFP/day.

That's great, but I don't have to fly multiple leg days with 25 minute turns on a 737. Our 777 has a 28 hour 3 day to NRT, and on INTL rules I can back up two 3 day trips (with a night at home in between) and get 40 hours in 6 days, with a great meal in Vienna and another one in Venice. I also get to legally sleep inflight (in the crew rest seat, some of our 767ERs now have lie flat bunks in our own compartment too), eat first class meals, and maybe catch a first run flick. There are even a couple 9 day trips worth 55 or more hours, with out and backs from London or Frankfurt (ATL--LGW--JFK--LGW--CVG--LGW--ATL or the same type of deal with FRA). The Winter festival nights in Weisboden are supposedly really nice, and a trip like that could be fun. Or, I could go to Rio for 36 hours and go to Club Help, where the ladies like to dance and grab your arse. That trip is closer to 21 hours for a 4 day (early return on the 4th day), but you have a tan and a smile.

We are glad you are paid well, have good management, and your stews are nice. But, some of us want the option to fly INTL or fly domestic. A little change up is good in life, but don't let your wife hear that. Make sure you keep those great work rules and pay rates so we can try to negotiate for those too starting in 09.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[EMBpilot]

I agree "that sucks" comment is out of line. The less cohesive we are the more smiles (and bonuses) we put on/in our managements faces/pockets.

There are many things I don't like about SWA, but I don't hijack threads screaming about it.