DAL/NWA pilots RE: furlough?

[~~~^~~~]

SS-
What's really funny is all these DAL new hires seem to know more about the NWA HR department/planning than NWA executives.

Schwanker

If the NWA HR department / planning folks are not getting invited to the meetings, then they might should be concerned.

News flash: NWA isn't running the staffing. If they were, there would be furloughs.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Like Fin states, we know about DAL's plans and those are the ones that are going to survives the merger. Once the DCC occurs, the DAL boys and girls will be the ones calling all the shots.

 

[Superpilot92]

Thanks guys.

Superpilot, do you want to retract your allegation of me spreading BS?

I did not want to name a source, but as others have indicated, there was a meeting with those who staff the airline and what you are reading here is second hand from that meeting.

Exact numbers are still being worked out. 400 NWA pilots put in for the early out package. The Company only wants to accept 80 to 100...

Why would I retract anything? My info is straight from the company and those who deteremine OUR staffing. If we were so overstatfed then why wouldn't the company give out more of the PERPS? Afterall supposedly 400 applied and want out, that number far surpasses the rumored "160-170 surplus" pilots, right? Maybe it's because they know we would be short staffed if they award to many?

 

[Superpilot92]

by the way fins I wasn't specifically saying you were the one spreading bs. I just prefer actual info that is from the company instead of hearsay presented as fact. Time will tell what actually happens

 

[~~~^~~~]

If we were so overstatfed then why wouldn't the company give out more of the PERPS?

Because they don't want to wipe out the 747A category and also have to deal with everyone who would re-bid and re-train up the stove pipe.

I am guessing that 100 off the top probably results in 500 or more training events. 400 off the top would result in half of NWA going into training as they bid up into vacancies. I am also guessing that the surplus pilots are on the DC9 and other equipment being parked. Just as Delta is a little fat on the 757 because some have been pulled down over the winter season. The glut of pilots isn't in the right place for the PERP to be the perfect solution (from the company's perspective).

... and again, NWA isn't calling the shots on this.

 

[Furloughed80]

When will the lists actually be integrated? This whole "furloughing" NWA guys and "re-hiring" them at DAL seems like an around about way of stapling the lower end of the NWA list.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

After the SLI when their seniority will be determined in the joint company. That is why we singed a LOA preventing the need for the hiring of 50 pilots this fall. It also mean that we did not need to do a temporary displacement to cover the flying.
The end result is no new hires senior to NWA guys at the bottom of the DAL list before the SLI, and the chance of their being issues because of this negated.
Allowing a few guys from NWA go (we want 160, company wants less) now does not do what DAL wants it to do long term. Waiting until they know where the airplanes are going to be based and how DAL will use them saves the company 10's of millions in unneeded training and relocating costs.
Simply put big picture. Having a lot of training that will not behoove the new company makes no sense.

 

[Superpilot92]

Because they don't want to wipe out the 747A category and also have to deal with everyone who would re-bid and re-train up the stove pipe.

I am guessing that 100 off the top probably results in 500 or more training events. 400 off the top would result in half of NWA going into training as they bid up into vacancies. I am also guessing that the surplus pilots are on the DC9 and other equipment being parked. Just as Delta is a little fat on the 757 because some have been pulled down over the winter season. The glut of pilots isn't in the right place for the PERP to be the perfect solution (from the company's perspective).

... and again, NWA isn't calling the shots on this.

Like i said its because of training bubbles. However the company cant and wont be able to stop people from retiring. When we had the conference call about the PERPs a lot of people expressed that they would be retiring even if they werent awarded a PERP. Also the PERPs werent offered to the Widebody guys so the big question is how many of those senior guys are going to punch out in the next couple months without the PERPS. The training bubble is coming either way in the next few years whether the company wants it or not. This is a period of uncertainty within the HR ranks. Age 65, merger, PERPS, etc have thrown multiple wrenches into the machine that used to be able to plan staffing numbers. The next year will be interesting to say the least.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I heard the completion of arbitration for the NWA/DAL SLI is 20 Nov. I hope that NWA and DAL start hiring soon after.

cliff
GRB

 

[NuGuy]

Like i said its because of training bubbles. However the company cant and wont be able to stop people from retiring. When we had the conference call about the PERPs a lot of people expressed that they would be retiring even if they werent awarded a PERP. Also the PERPs werent offered to the Widebody guys so the big question is how many of those senior guys are going to punch out in the next couple months without the PERPS. The training bubble is coming either way in the next few years whether the company wants it or not. This is a period of uncertainty within the HR ranks. Age 65, merger, PERPS, etc have thrown multiple wrenches into the machine that used to be able to plan staffing numbers. The next year will be interesting to say the least.

Heyas Super,

The major, MAJOR, fly in this ointment was the number one supremo screw job that the JPWA laid on us, which was the retiree health insurance debacle.

Now, instead of being able to plan for retirements in an orderly way, you have 200-??? guys who are going to try to sharpshoot the system.

Once they get wind of when DCC is going to happen, hundreds will walk away with the absolute minimum notice to the company.

The training bubble is going to happen, just at a worse time, that's all.

Nu

 

[ACL65PILOT]

True.
Fact is that after SLI the bottom of the list will be realized in one way or another. Coming over to the DAL side is just semantics. It allows them to stay on the payroll and realize a mainline job before SOC.
I personally think that it shows good will on all parts.

 

[Superpilot92]

Heyas Super,

The major, MAJOR, fly in this ointment was the number one supremo screw job that the JPWA laid on us, which was the retiree health insurance debacle.

Now, instead of being able to plan for retirements in an orderly way, you have 200-??? guys who are going to try to sharpshoot the system.

Once they get wind of when DCC is going to happen, hundreds will walk away with the absolute minimum notice to the company.

The training bubble is going to happen, just at a worse time, that's all.

Nu

Exactly the point I was trying to get across thanks. The question is how will that play into the sli talks? We'll see

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Thanks guys.

Superpilot, do you want to retract your allegation of me spreading BS?

Perhaps he's calling BS because he's in that projected furlough group.

 

[Superpilot92]

Perhaps he's calling BS because he's in that projected furlough group.

or it's because anything regarding "furloughs" right now is RUMOR. The info I posted is straight from the company and is actually official info. Feel free to post any real info regarding furloughs, thanks for your contributions to the discussion though

 

[avrodriver]

My source is straight from the company. Sorry if it offends you that i posted something from an official source directly contradicting your "info".

Unfortunately when it comes to Northwest (or any airline for that matter) I'd tend to put a little stock into the "writing on the wall" before I fully bought into anything management spouted off.

Even if they toss NWA guys to the DAL side it still results in "the need for no furloughs" which is what they are saying right?

 

[Superpilot92]

Unfortunately when it comes to Northwest (or any airline for that matter) I'd tend to put a little stock into the "writing on the wall" before I fully bought into anything management spouted off.

Even if they toss NWA guys to the DAL side it still results in "the need for no furloughs" which is what they are saying right?

They (mgmt & ALPA) are saying by next year we could be about 400-500 people SHORT due to retirements and the Delta staffing model change in the JPWA.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Lucky for them they have 36 months after DCC to be in compliance with the staffing model.
Now when it comes to the retirements, yes if they offer all of the early outs that were requested, then yes we could be quite short.

 

[Superpilot92]

Lucky for them they have 36 months after DCC to be in compliance with the staffing model.
Now when it comes to the retirements, yes if they offer all of the early outs that were requested, then yes we could be quite short.

Your forgetting that the Early outs werent even offered to the Widebody guys (typically more senior). So it isnt just about if they offer all the PERPS its how many will leave even without a perp. Best part is with those, the company has no say in when or if Someone can submit their retirement papers. IMHO thats why they arent awardng all of the early outs that were applied for because the company knows more are going to reitre on their own and dont want to suddenly have a giant void to fill, which will happen eventually anyway. There are many unknowns.

 

[GogglesPisano]

Good source ... 50 new-hires next year.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

G-That is to start.

 

[whymeworry?]

It's really none of my business but the naivete displayed by both NW and DAL pilots on here is a bit surprising. Don't y'all think the other shoe's gonna' drop once the SLI is complete?

You do realize NW mgmt is made up of former Lorenzo lieutenants, right? I surmise they will make all the growth promises a pilot want's to hear (using airline mgmt 101 playbook) until the SLI is complete (to assure as smooth a process as possible). Then, once complete, the reality will hit. You can't keep parking DC-9s and MD-88s and still need to grow, especiallt while eveyone else is cutting capacity. Or can you?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I think that there will be cuts, but it will be offset by larger a/c deliveries. That is for the next two years.

 

[NuGuy]

I think that there will be cuts, but it will be offset by larger a/c deliveries. That is for the next two years.

Whatever helps you sleep at a night...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cK52X7_Nz-M

Nu

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Funny. I do not sleep either way.

 

[whatitdoing?]

Furlough is coming unfortunately.....matter of time.

 

[qxdash8]

Furlough is coming unfortunately.....matter of time.

Normally I would agree - but there are a few things working in our favor: Conversion of the last 7 767-400's to the international configuration (increases staffing requirements for that equipment), more 777 deliveries (each 777 requires way more pilots than one narrowbody), NW changing to DL work and staffing rules (sure this will take a while to go into effect, but must be accounted for long term) and of course the large number of upcoming NW retirements to be followed by a large number of DL retirements. These things will help ofset the decrease in narrowbody flying. If we can make it through the next year or so without furloughs, I think we will be in good shape.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Agreed. I think that talking about furloughs is a little premature.

 

[another cfii]

The only thing that keeps me from a good night of sleep is:

1) Oil prices skyrocketing (again),
2) neighbor's dog barking...

I doubt we'll need to furlough unless we see oil prices go back up to the 140 range for an extended period of time.

 

[GogglesPisano]

It's the financial meltdown that worries me. So many pundits talking about a Second Great Depression. If that happens 30% of the pilots in this country will be working at WalMart (the only chain left.)

 

[whymeworry?]

Sky is falling scenario. The stock market will continue to correct until it reaches 33-40% down from it's highs. Then we will base-build for the next economic expansion. Sure things will be slow for a while but there won't be a depression.

This market correction is extremely healthy for the long-term viability of the world's largest economy. What are witnessing is the efficiency of free-markets working at its best. Pigs get slaughtered.