DAL/NWA pilots RE: furlough?

[Superpilot92]

and I wrote that no NWA pilots were expected to hit the street. But, the flying slots are on the Delta side of the house. My opinion is that some system by which NWA pilots come over before SOC will happen.

How is it that you think that NWA parks 47 airplanes in one year, yet nobody is displaced? Delta staffing rules? You mean the rules we just waived on the MD88?

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that the NWA pilot list has shrunk as well. In 2005 NWA had over 6000 pilots on the list. Now we may be under 5000. On top of that, Only 190 people have been hired in 8 years. Surpluses have to do with the fact that people need to be shifted to other categories, not meaning over staffing across the board. The companies staffing updates indicates that some categories have surpluses while others may not. They have said on a number of occasions that people are bidding out of the "surplus" categories into other aircraft thus offsetting the need to displace people to other aircraft.

 

[~~~^~~~]

What offends is not your source, but your allegations of "random rumor spreading BS." I disagree with you without resorting to name calling.

BTW my source is better than yours, but has not been published yet; awaiting a final decision on how many of the 400 NWA early outs (mostly 747-400A) are allowed to go.

NWA management will not be staffing the airline.

Most of the time, I hope that I am wrong - but I don't let that interfere with accurate reporting. When something is my opinion, I try to make it clear.

My opinion, I wish the story was different because it complicates matters that are already complicated enough and I'm likely to be displaced from status quo by the time this all shakes out. After all if a DC9 FO is quasi-displaced to an MD88, then they actually have a better job than a more senior DC9 FO. IMHO it would be better if they at least wait until the SLI and allow bidding across certificates ... and that might end up being the answer.

 

[Superpilot92]

What offends is not your source, but your allegations of "random rumor spreading BS." I disagree with you without resorting to name calling.

BTW my source is better than yours, but has not been published yet; awaiting a final decision on how many of the 400 NWA early outs (mostly 747-400A) are allowed to go.

NWA management will not be staffing the airline.

Most of the time, I hope that I am wrong - but I don't let that interfere with accurate reporting. When something is my opinion, I try to make it clear.

My opinion, I wish the story was different because it complicates matters that are already complicated enough and I'm likely to be displaced from status quo by the time this all shakes out. After all if a DC9 FO is quasi-displaced to an MD88, then they actually have a better job than a more senior DC9 FO. IMHO it would be better if they at least wait until the SLI and allow bidding across certificates ... and that might end up being the answer.

Who's my source? Also those who want to retire will retire regardless of what the company "allows". They may not get an early out package but they can still retire. The reason why they aren't allowing as many PERPS as are applying is because of the training bubble and potential for being short staffed. We really don't have an overall "surplus", what we have is a time of staffing uncertainty. As the DCC gets closer more and more will start retiring on their own without a PERP. There are so many variables on staffing its probably got HR's heads spinning. We'll see.

 

[skywav8r]

Rumor alert.....

I heard from a guy who heard from a guy who....


Anyway, I'm in the school house now and I joked about getting a shiny new 757/767 type rating right before I get furloughed. The instructor said not to worry. Were not furloughing but were also not hiring because NWA was looking to furlough and we were going to train those guys. Source? Just an instructor who drinks beer with those on the 4th floor. Is is true? I wouldn't bet my house on it. Just wanted to add some fuel to the fire.


(happy to be done with the Md-88)

 

[Schwanker]

Rumor alert.....

I heard from a guy who heard from a guy who....


Anyway, I'm in the school house now and I joked about getting a shiny new 757/767 type rating right before I get furloughed. The instructor said not to worry. Were not furloughing but were also not hiring because NWA was looking to furlough and we were going to train those guys. Source? Just an instructor who drinks beer with those on the 4th floor. Is is true? I wouldn't bet my house on it. Just wanted to add some fuel to the fire.


(happy to be done with the Md-88)

That's funny. I heard from a guy DAL is retiring all those really old 767s and are going to furlough starting 6 January. I hope we can find room for their butts in the NWA fleet.

Schwanker

 

[Noserider76]

. Were not furloughing but were also not hiring because NWA was looking to furlough and we were going to train those guys. Source? Just an instructor who drinks beer with those on the 4th floor. Is is true? I

Stand by for confirmation but why do you think DALPA signed a side letter to increase the MD-88 ALV through Mar only? I'm really interested to see how they're going to make this work before the operations are officially combined.

 

[General Lee]

That's funny. I heard from a guy DAL is retiring all those really old 767s and are going to furlough starting 6 January. I hope we can find room for their butts in the NWA fleet.

Schwanker

What "really old" 767s? We got rid of the 767-200s already (like the "Spirit of Delta"). We are supposedly going to move some 767-300ERs to SEA (bumping that A330 base Eastward towards JFK to do AMM, TLV, and CAI) and with winglets fly them all over Asia from SEA, and intra Asia. (Air Canada flies 767ERs from YVR to many points in Asia too) We are also very short on the MD88 (raised the Average Line Value to compensate) and also on the 73NG. I think your guy was "tipsy."


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Stand by for confirmation but why do you think DALPA signed a side letter to increase the MD-88 ALV through Mar only? I'm really interested to see how they're going to make this work before the operations are officially combined.

Maybe they will add NWA guys to the MD88 in March, or add newhires (supposedly cheaper than displacements). No swapping of planes until the merging of certificates, and that will take 15-18 months via the FAA.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[scarlet]

Oh no Delta will employ over 12,000 pilots=NOT
Delta will KEEP all bases open=NOT
Delta is growing in 08????? 09=????? Not at 100.00 oil

And trust me my source----in the top 40 mgt side...told you weeks before DFW was closing....

 

[General Lee]

Oh no Delta will employ over 12,000 pilots=NOT
Delta will KEEP all bases open=NOT
Delta is growing in 08????? 09=????? Not at 100.00 oil

And trust me my source----in the top 40 mgt side...told you weeks before DFW was closing....

We know your RJ will likely go away, CVG will downsize, and we will be the biggest airline. The problem with your $100 a barrel oil theory is that most other airlines cannot budget for that high of oil. We can. We budgeted for the remainder of this year at $120 a barrel oil, and I was told by a CP that next year was budgeted at $140 a barrel. He said if oil went higher (like $150 a barrel) we would have to go one way, vs if it went lower to $100 a barrel, it would "open more doors." Your source sounds "tipsy" too.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Muskycat]

Rumor alert.....

I heard from a guy who heard from a guy who....


Anyway, I'm in the school house now and I joked about getting a shiny new 757/767 type rating right before I get furloughed. The instructor said not to worry. Were not furloughing but were also not hiring because NWA was looking to furlough and we were going to train those guys. Source? Just an instructor who drinks beer with those on the 4th floor. Is is true? I wouldn't bet my house on it. Just wanted to add some fuel to the fire.


(happy to be done with the Md-88)

Not really rumor. This was brought up at a meeting in LAX by RA and ES about hiring. Their take is we need to hire nwa needs to furlough. So we need to find a way to work the nwa guys in so they don't get furloughed. And this needs to happen soon.
We parked 10 to 20 plans but also have taken on that many in new aircraft and a few more. nwa is going to park 47 aircraft and not replacing many of them.
We're going to be short staffed with more 777 coming within the next 6 months.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Thanks guys.

Superpilot, do you want to retract your allegation of me spreading BS?

I did not want to name a source, but as others have indicated, there was a meeting with those who staff the airline and what you are reading here is second hand from that meeting.

Exact numbers are still being worked out. 400 NWA pilots put in for the early out package. The Company only wants to accept 80 to 100, and ALPA is pushing for 160. I have not heard what the final number is. Also ANC is a serious money loser, look for something else to fill those NRT slots.

NWA "needs to furlough" 160 to 170, but that is not happening because Delta needs to hire more than 2that. Hiring Delta guys while NWA was furloughing would be a problem in several areas, so Delta is trying to figure out how to make this work. We don't know what the plan is, a lot depends on the SLI. But, one interim solution is to run the MD88 below minimum staffing levels to keep some slots open.

In balance, the MD88 ALV SLOA also keeps Delta from doing a short term displacement off the 757/767 domestic to cover the shortfall.

IMHO they might should have structured this so the MD88 pilots get premium flying pay for covering this until March. In any event, there will be a good opportunity to make serious money on the MD88 for reserve guys that fly greenslips. 140+ hours will be possible under the right conditions.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I can tell you unequivocally that what FIN states is correct.
We will grow and shrink in the next few years but the net gain will be positive.
If you connect the dots there is a need to have NWA furlough, and DAL hire. The fact that this LOA was singed shows that we want there to be no new hires senior to the NWA guy on the bottom of the DAL list.
Look at the facts. Look at what is going on and realize that the plan you are looking at is an old one.
We are planning on hiring next year after the SLI and the staffing issues are dealt with. It is a plan. It may change.
Also NWA's routes et al do not need to be in compliance with DAL PBS min staffing formula for 36 months. That my friends is a long time.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

His source is the same as mine and they know more than most on this board do.

 

[Schwanker]

What "really old" 767s? We got rid of the 767-200s already (like the "Spirit of Delta"). We are supposedly going to move some 767-300ERs to SEA (bumping that A330 base Eastward towards JFK to do AMM, TLV, and CAI) and with winglets fly them all over Asia from SEA, and intra Asia. (Air Canada flies 767ERs from YVR to many points in Asia too) We are also very short on the MD88 (raised the Average Line Value to compensate) and also on the 73NG. I think your guy was "tipsy."


Bye Bye--General Lee

SS-
The point is one rumor is every bit as credible as the next. What's really funny is all these DAL new hires seem to know more about the NWA HR department/planning than NWA executives. I guess if you spread a good rumor with others who believe same said rumor will propel their personnel position, it makes them feel a bit more worthy. I figured you'd see the sarcasm in my post. Point is, all these "know it alls" know a lot less than they portray.

Schwanker