DAL/NWA pilots RE: furlough?

[Noserider76]

. Were not furloughing but were also not hiring because NWA was looking to furlough and we were going to train those guys. Source? Just an instructor who drinks beer with those on the 4th floor. Is is true? I

Stand by for confirmation but why do you think DALPA signed a side letter to increase the MD-88 ALV through Mar only? I'm really interested to see how they're going to make this work before the operations are officially combined.

 

[General Lee]

That's funny. I heard from a guy DAL is retiring all those really old 767s and are going to furlough starting 6 January. I hope we can find room for their butts in the NWA fleet.

Schwanker

What "really old" 767s? We got rid of the 767-200s already (like the "Spirit of Delta"). We are supposedly going to move some 767-300ERs to SEA (bumping that A330 base Eastward towards JFK to do AMM, TLV, and CAI) and with winglets fly them all over Asia from SEA, and intra Asia. (Air Canada flies 767ERs from YVR to many points in Asia too) We are also very short on the MD88 (raised the Average Line Value to compensate) and also on the 73NG. I think your guy was "tipsy."


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Stand by for confirmation but why do you think DALPA signed a side letter to increase the MD-88 ALV through Mar only? I'm really interested to see how they're going to make this work before the operations are officially combined.

Maybe they will add NWA guys to the MD88 in March, or add newhires (supposedly cheaper than displacements). No swapping of planes until the merging of certificates, and that will take 15-18 months via the FAA.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[scarlet]

Oh no Delta will employ over 12,000 pilots=NOT
Delta will KEEP all bases open=NOT
Delta is growing in 08????? 09=????? Not at 100.00 oil

And trust me my source----in the top 40 mgt side...told you weeks before DFW was closing....

 

[General Lee]

Oh no Delta will employ over 12,000 pilots=NOT
Delta will KEEP all bases open=NOT
Delta is growing in 08????? 09=????? Not at 100.00 oil

And trust me my source----in the top 40 mgt side...told you weeks before DFW was closing....

We know your RJ will likely go away, CVG will downsize, and we will be the biggest airline. The problem with your $100 a barrel oil theory is that most other airlines cannot budget for that high of oil. We can. We budgeted for the remainder of this year at $120 a barrel oil, and I was told by a CP that next year was budgeted at $140 a barrel. He said if oil went higher (like $150 a barrel) we would have to go one way, vs if it went lower to $100 a barrel, it would "open more doors." Your source sounds "tipsy" too.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Muskycat]

Rumor alert.....

I heard from a guy who heard from a guy who....


Anyway, I'm in the school house now and I joked about getting a shiny new 757/767 type rating right before I get furloughed. The instructor said not to worry. Were not furloughing but were also not hiring because NWA was looking to furlough and we were going to train those guys. Source? Just an instructor who drinks beer with those on the 4th floor. Is is true? I wouldn't bet my house on it. Just wanted to add some fuel to the fire.


(happy to be done with the Md-88)

Not really rumor. This was brought up at a meeting in LAX by RA and ES about hiring. Their take is we need to hire nwa needs to furlough. So we need to find a way to work the nwa guys in so they don't get furloughed. And this needs to happen soon.
We parked 10 to 20 plans but also have taken on that many in new aircraft and a few more. nwa is going to park 47 aircraft and not replacing many of them.
We're going to be short staffed with more 777 coming within the next 6 months.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Thanks guys.

Superpilot, do you want to retract your allegation of me spreading BS?

I did not want to name a source, but as others have indicated, there was a meeting with those who staff the airline and what you are reading here is second hand from that meeting.

Exact numbers are still being worked out. 400 NWA pilots put in for the early out package. The Company only wants to accept 80 to 100, and ALPA is pushing for 160. I have not heard what the final number is. Also ANC is a serious money loser, look for something else to fill those NRT slots.

NWA "needs to furlough" 160 to 170, but that is not happening because Delta needs to hire more than 2that. Hiring Delta guys while NWA was furloughing would be a problem in several areas, so Delta is trying to figure out how to make this work. We don't know what the plan is, a lot depends on the SLI. But, one interim solution is to run the MD88 below minimum staffing levels to keep some slots open.

In balance, the MD88 ALV SLOA also keeps Delta from doing a short term displacement off the 757/767 domestic to cover the shortfall.

IMHO they might should have structured this so the MD88 pilots get premium flying pay for covering this until March. In any event, there will be a good opportunity to make serious money on the MD88 for reserve guys that fly greenslips. 140+ hours will be possible under the right conditions.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I can tell you unequivocally that what FIN states is correct.
We will grow and shrink in the next few years but the net gain will be positive.
If you connect the dots there is a need to have NWA furlough, and DAL hire. The fact that this LOA was singed shows that we want there to be no new hires senior to the NWA guy on the bottom of the DAL list.
Look at the facts. Look at what is going on and realize that the plan you are looking at is an old one.
We are planning on hiring next year after the SLI and the staffing issues are dealt with. It is a plan. It may change.
Also NWA's routes et al do not need to be in compliance with DAL PBS min staffing formula for 36 months. That my friends is a long time.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

His source is the same as mine and they know more than most on this board do.

 

[Schwanker]

What "really old" 767s? We got rid of the 767-200s already (like the "Spirit of Delta"). We are supposedly going to move some 767-300ERs to SEA (bumping that A330 base Eastward towards JFK to do AMM, TLV, and CAI) and with winglets fly them all over Asia from SEA, and intra Asia. (Air Canada flies 767ERs from YVR to many points in Asia too) We are also very short on the MD88 (raised the Average Line Value to compensate) and also on the 73NG. I think your guy was "tipsy."


Bye Bye--General Lee

SS-
The point is one rumor is every bit as credible as the next. What's really funny is all these DAL new hires seem to know more about the NWA HR department/planning than NWA executives. I guess if you spread a good rumor with others who believe same said rumor will propel their personnel position, it makes them feel a bit more worthy. I figured you'd see the sarcasm in my post. Point is, all these "know it alls" know a lot less than they portray.

Schwanker

 

[~~~^~~~]

SS-
What's really funny is all these DAL new hires seem to know more about the NWA HR department/planning than NWA executives.

Schwanker

If the NWA HR department / planning folks are not getting invited to the meetings, then they might should be concerned.

News flash: NWA isn't running the staffing. If they were, there would be furloughs.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Like Fin states, we know about DAL's plans and those are the ones that are going to survives the merger. Once the DCC occurs, the DAL boys and girls will be the ones calling all the shots.

 

[Superpilot92]

Thanks guys.

Superpilot, do you want to retract your allegation of me spreading BS?

I did not want to name a source, but as others have indicated, there was a meeting with those who staff the airline and what you are reading here is second hand from that meeting.

Exact numbers are still being worked out. 400 NWA pilots put in for the early out package. The Company only wants to accept 80 to 100...

Why would I retract anything? My info is straight from the company and those who deteremine OUR staffing. If we were so overstatfed then why wouldn't the company give out more of the PERPS? Afterall supposedly 400 applied and want out, that number far surpasses the rumored "160-170 surplus" pilots, right? Maybe it's because they know we would be short staffed if they award to many?

 

[Superpilot92]

by the way fins I wasn't specifically saying you were the one spreading bs. I just prefer actual info that is from the company instead of hearsay presented as fact. Time will tell what actually happens

 

[~~~^~~~]

If we were so overstatfed then why wouldn't the company give out more of the PERPS?

Because they don't want to wipe out the 747A category and also have to deal with everyone who would re-bid and re-train up the stove pipe.

I am guessing that 100 off the top probably results in 500 or more training events. 400 off the top would result in half of NWA going into training as they bid up into vacancies. I am also guessing that the surplus pilots are on the DC9 and other equipment being parked. Just as Delta is a little fat on the 757 because some have been pulled down over the winter season. The glut of pilots isn't in the right place for the PERP to be the perfect solution (from the company's perspective).

... and again, NWA isn't calling the shots on this.

 

[Furloughed80]

When will the lists actually be integrated? This whole "furloughing" NWA guys and "re-hiring" them at DAL seems like an around about way of stapling the lower end of the NWA list.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

After the SLI when their seniority will be determined in the joint company. That is why we singed a LOA preventing the need for the hiring of 50 pilots this fall. It also mean that we did not need to do a temporary displacement to cover the flying.
The end result is no new hires senior to NWA guys at the bottom of the DAL list before the SLI, and the chance of their being issues because of this negated.
Allowing a few guys from NWA go (we want 160, company wants less) now does not do what DAL wants it to do long term. Waiting until they know where the airplanes are going to be based and how DAL will use them saves the company 10's of millions in unneeded training and relocating costs.
Simply put big picture. Having a lot of training that will not behoove the new company makes no sense.

 

[Superpilot92]

Because they don't want to wipe out the 747A category and also have to deal with everyone who would re-bid and re-train up the stove pipe.

I am guessing that 100 off the top probably results in 500 or more training events. 400 off the top would result in half of NWA going into training as they bid up into vacancies. I am also guessing that the surplus pilots are on the DC9 and other equipment being parked. Just as Delta is a little fat on the 757 because some have been pulled down over the winter season. The glut of pilots isn't in the right place for the PERP to be the perfect solution (from the company's perspective).

... and again, NWA isn't calling the shots on this.

Like i said its because of training bubbles. However the company cant and wont be able to stop people from retiring. When we had the conference call about the PERPs a lot of people expressed that they would be retiring even if they werent awarded a PERP. Also the PERPs werent offered to the Widebody guys so the big question is how many of those senior guys are going to punch out in the next couple months without the PERPS. The training bubble is coming either way in the next few years whether the company wants it or not. This is a period of uncertainty within the HR ranks. Age 65, merger, PERPS, etc have thrown multiple wrenches into the machine that used to be able to plan staffing numbers. The next year will be interesting to say the least.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I heard the completion of arbitration for the NWA/DAL SLI is 20 Nov. I hope that NWA and DAL start hiring soon after.

cliff
GRB

 

[NuGuy]

Like i said its because of training bubbles. However the company cant and wont be able to stop people from retiring. When we had the conference call about the PERPs a lot of people expressed that they would be retiring even if they werent awarded a PERP. Also the PERPs werent offered to the Widebody guys so the big question is how many of those senior guys are going to punch out in the next couple months without the PERPS. The training bubble is coming either way in the next few years whether the company wants it or not. This is a period of uncertainty within the HR ranks. Age 65, merger, PERPS, etc have thrown multiple wrenches into the machine that used to be able to plan staffing numbers. The next year will be interesting to say the least.

Heyas Super,

The major, MAJOR, fly in this ointment was the number one supremo screw job that the JPWA laid on us, which was the retiree health insurance debacle.

Now, instead of being able to plan for retirements in an orderly way, you have 200-??? guys who are going to try to sharpshoot the system.

Once they get wind of when DCC is going to happen, hundreds will walk away with the absolute minimum notice to the company.

The training bubble is going to happen, just at a worse time, that's all.

Nu