Dal/jal

[flap operator]

General - I'm well aware of 5th freedom rights and the prominence DL has (thanks to NWA) in Asia. My comment on "intricacies" was aimed towards all the other areas in the world JAL flies to. DL can really only help with US-Japan and Japan-Asia. They and the other Skyteam partners are going to have to deal with the rest.

I think the whole irony to this JAL/DL situation is that waaaay back in the day, post WWII, NWA actually helped create JAL, by providing crews and expertise. Now, today, DL is supporting them and helping them through a tough time. This wouldn't be happening without the NWA/DL merger... funny how things come full circle.

The scary part in this whole gig is that it could potentially mean the end of the interport network and all those employees DL employs. That, I hope, is a reality D-ALPA is aware of.

 

[FBN0223]

The scary part in this whole gig is that it could potentially mean the end of the interport network and all those employees DL employs. That, I hope, is a reality D-ALPA is aware of.

I really doubt we'll see an end or much of a decrease in Delta interport operations. Firstly, many of these interport flights are flown with B747-400s and A330s. These aircraft could become extinct in the JAL fleet. Also GUM and SPN are U.S territories. Likely to continue to be flown by Delta.

ALPA is going to be a hurdle as well. To what level, we will see. But I seriously doubt you'll see our senior guys giving away any of their wide-body flying as we did with the narrow-body flying via Compass, Mesaba, Comair and the other DCis. The senior Delta pilots, who run DALPA, will fight for every last block hour of interport flying.

Jal joining Skyteam equals many more Asia passengers for JAL, DAL and AF/KLM, it's not really in our interest to sound the Asia retreat.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I bet we see a down tick in the Beach Operation. It would makes sense. Not a ton but some.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Thanks to merging with NWA "ORIENT", we have 5th freedom rights to fly from NRT to other Asian cities, something most airlines cannot do. We are essentially Japan's 3rd INTL airline. If JAL wants to give up routes or planes, we are the natural choice to fly them. It really depends on what JAL wants to do. Early on they stated they might want to mainly be a "domestic" airline within Japan and just get stronger financially. If that were the case, then we, along with other SkyTeam members stand to gain a lot. I don't really know if that is the case, and I am sure we will learn more as time goes on. It could be really great for us, or it could be a codeshare that still helps bring up revenue.


Bye Bye--General Lee

I know you know this, but I will reference you reference to the Fifth Freedom Rights.

As you recall there is an agreement between the Nations of the Us and Japan, it is called Open-Skies. It is hardly fair, but the end result is the nullification of the Fifth Freedom Rights. It makes them void.

 

[flap operator]

There are also, a good amount of 757s also flying the interport markets, so it's not only the senior dogs flying in Asia. At the very least, maybe this means they'll be upgauged to widebodies. Either way, it'll remain interesting how this all unfolds. Hopefully, everyone, including the Asia based employees and the employees at the regional subsidiaries will benefit from it all.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

There are also, a good amount of 757s also flying the interport markets, so it's not only the senior dogs flying in Asia. At the very least, maybe this means they'll be upgauged to widebodies. Either way, it'll remain interesting how this all unfolds. Hopefully, everyone, including the Asia based employees and the employees at the regional subsidiaries will benefit from it all.

A small number of 757's may be a different story.

 

[Schwanker]

I know you know this, but I will reference you reference to the Fifth Freedom Rights.

As you recall there is an agreement between the Nations of the Us and Japan, it is called Open-Skies. It is hardly fair, but the end result is the nullification of the Fifth Freedom Rights. It makes them void.

Isn't this Open-Skies agreement based on antitrust immunity being granted to both Japanese carriers? If the immunity isn't granted, it's status quo which could still be huge for DAL while stymieing UAL/CAL/ANA...

 

[FDJ2]

Isn't this Open-Skies agreement based on antitrust immunity being granted to both Japanese carriers? If the immunity isn't granted, it's status quo which could still be huge for DAL while stymieing UAL/CAL/ANA...

Correct.

If AI isn't granted than no open skies.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Correct.

If AI isn't granted than no open skies.

Agreed. We win either way. JAL: we get what we want, without JAL no open skies and the Fifth Freedom rights stay. Ergo give us anti-trust or you do not get open skies.



Kind of like a gun to their heads for now. The next agreement may allow what we fear, so it is better for us to nullify the fifth freedom rights, agree to Open Skies and get the alliance that makes the most sense. I see the Fifth Freedom rights going away either way, option A is just a lot better to insulate DAL from it.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

So for those in the know.... JAL coming over to DAL leaves AMR with a gaping whole in their pacific market.... how is this going to effect pilot jobs....