• NC Software is having a Black Friday Sale Event thru December 4th on Logbook Pro, APDL - Airline Pilot Logbook, Cirrus Elite Binders, and more. Use coupon code BF2020 at checkout to redeem 15% off your purchase. Click here to shop now.
  • NC Software is proud to announce the release of APDL - Airline Pilot Logbook version 10.0. Click here to view APDL on the Apple App store and install now.

DAL Commuters

FBN0223

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2007
Posts
563
Total Time
14k
As Compass takes over many of our former mainline out-stations, I decided to look at commuting options. This led me to our DL PWA and the DL commute policy, which verified the comments from my last Captain.

Currently at NWA, we have a call in honest policy which basically states that pilots must leave a back-up flight and in the event flight A fails, flight B will take you to your base positive space. Same applies at Delta. There is a significant difference and that is under the DL PWA, crew scheduling has more options. At NWA, call in honest can be used as much as needed with no pay penalty or disciplinary action.

From page 248, line 37-39 of the PWA.

Crew scheduling may:
a)dh the pilot to his rotation
b) place the pilot on his rotation when he transits his base.
c) remove the pilot from his rotation without pay
d) remove the reserve pilot from his on call duty without pay.

Furthermore a pilot is not eligible for one of the above a thru d options unless he has attempted travel on at least two flights that:

a) show adequate seat availability with 24 of departure considering the pilot's seniority and normal load factors of the flight.

b)scheduled to arrive at a reasonable time before his scheduled report time

c) are separated by at least two hours.

Also: It is expected that a pilot will make himself avail to sect 23 Y 2 on rare basis.
------------------------------
Unfortunately, to avoid penalty, the only option may be a sick call.

Perhaps, I missed an LOA that would solve this problem or I am misinterpreting the section but it seems that this commute policy would lead to several bad situations, i.e. loss of pay for the trip or disciplinary action.
 
Last edited:

ACL65PILOT

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 6, 2006
Posts
4,621
Total Time
9000+
Yesterday, I saw them remove a four day rotation off a commuter. It was over 24 hrs of credit. Now that will hurt.
 

ACL65PILOT

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 6, 2006
Posts
4,621
Total Time
9000+
I know. He called in honest. Problem here at DAL is that crew scheduling tracks you on travel net. You will have a very hard time convincing them that you are sick when you activated for a flight. He knew that.
Also you better remember it to. If you travel on our jets and are not paying for a ticket and using your non-rev bennies or JS. Do not activate yourself if you are going to be sick. It leads to a lot of questions.
 

FmrFreightDog

Py-lote
Joined
Jul 31, 2003
Posts
1,238
Total Time
1.2
Begs the question does a jumpseat you have reserved count as one of your two??

Let's say flight A is booked full and you have the jumpseat reserved. Flight B has seats. Flight A cancels and flight B fills up with the people from flight A and you get left behind. Do they come back at you and say, "Sorry one of your two flights did not have seat availability"??
 

ACL65PILOT

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 6, 2006
Posts
4,621
Total Time
9000+
I have seen this happen and most the time they see the JS as a golden ticket.
I always gave myself three flights just to make sure. Also it is 2 flights that 24 hrs prior to departure you would have a reasonable chance making.
 

FBN0223

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2007
Posts
563
Total Time
14k
So we're going backwards:

Currently at NWA to use call-in-honest:

1) Two flights are scheduled to arrive at or before your show time. So if my trip starts at 1300(1200 show-time), a second flight that is scheduled to arrive at 1200 works.

2) Full pay for the trip whether you make the trip or not, just so you followed the "back-up" rule.

3) No disciplinary action. We can use call-in-honest every trip if necessary.

Unless Delta changes their commute policy, they can plan on seeing a dramatic increase in sick calls. I think the lack of a good policy stems from the fact that most DL guys live in base. The opposite is true on the NWA side.
 

ACL65PILOT

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 6, 2006
Posts
4,621
Total Time
9000+
I agree and I think that there are going to be a lot more commuters soon!
 

General Lee

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 24, 2002
Posts
20,442
Total Time
A lot
Don't forget, after giving up 47% of our pay, we also now have the use of a flight attendant jumpseat, as long as it is not taken by a stew......

Bye Bye--General Lee
 

FBN0223

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2007
Posts
563
Total Time
14k
Don't forget, after giving up 47% of our pay, we also now have the use of a flight attendant jumpseat, as long as it is not taken by a stew......

Bye Bye--General Lee

Speaking of which, I tried to ride a Compass FA jumpseat last week. The keyword is "tried." I was commuting home, the flight was full, and another NWA guy already has the cockpit jumpseat. So in my attempt to ride the Compass cabin jumpseat, I was informed by the Captain that FA jumpseats are not an option for NWA pilots. Alright, another night in MSP as the EMB175 taxis out with two open cabin jumpseats!!!. We gave them our flying and we can't even ride in an open cabin jumpseat. WTF!!!!
 

mynameisjim

Don't try this at home
Joined
Oct 27, 2004
Posts
842
Total Time
Paycut
Speaking of which, I tried to ride a Compass FA jumpseat last week. The keyword is "tried." I was commuting home, the flight was full, and another NWA guy already has the cockpit jumpseat. So in my attempt to ride the Compass cabin jumpseat, I was informed by the Captain that FA jumpseats are not an option for NWA pilots. Alright, another night in MSP as the EMB175 taxis out with two open cabin jumpseats!!!. We gave them our flying and we can't even ride in an open cabin jumpseat. WTF!!!!

Unfortunately Compass management doesn't let anyone ride the FA jumpseat other that Compass employees. I don't' know why and I don't agree with it.
 

FBN0223

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2007
Posts
563
Total Time
14k
Unfortunately Compass management doesn't let anyone ride the FA jumpseat other that Compass employees. I don't' know why and I don't agree with it.

Yeah, I've heard that Compass has some real "gems" running that place.
 

metrodriver808

konnichiwa bitches
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Posts
46
Total Time
some
Speaking of which, I tried to ride a Compass FA jumpseat last week. The keyword is "tried." I was commuting home, the flight was full, and another NWA guy already has the cockpit jumpseat. So in my attempt to ride the Compass cabin jumpseat, I was informed by the Captain that FA jumpseats are not an option for NWA pilots. Alright, another night in MSP as the EMB175 taxis out with two open cabin jumpseats!!!. We gave them our flying and we can't even ride in an open cabin jumpseat. WTF!!!!

Is anyone working on this? I don't see why people should be left behind, we are all represented by the same MEC.
 

FmrFreightDog

Py-lote
Joined
Jul 31, 2003
Posts
1,238
Total Time
1.2
2) Full pay for the trip whether you make the trip or not, just so you followed the "back-up" rule.


Pretty sure this is not right. They will always give you the Y1 to get you there, but if for some reason (mechanical on the backup or whatever) you won't get there in time to work the trip Bid Schedule Trip Guarantee does not apply. They will, however, make every attempt to return you to the trip ASAP. If they can't get you back you can sit time available in base for open flying.

Two more questions about DALs policy. Do both the flights have to be Delta flights, or could one be offline? If you can't make it for the start of the trip (couldn't get on both), will they return you to the trip as soon as they can or do they just take you off the whole thing?

I think ACL is right about one thing. There's going to be a lot more commuters. The only reason Call in Honest exists at NWA is because of the high number of sick calls due to missed commutes. At some point the company decided the revenue lost by potentially bumping one passenger was insignificant compared to the revenue lost by having to cancel a flight because someone who was trying his best to get to work just couldn't get there. I think (or hope) that Delta will come around to this way of thinking as well.
 

ACL65PILOT

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 6, 2006
Posts
4,621
Total Time
9000+
I am guessing that they will have to. It happens every so often now and reserves have always been able to cover it.
One issues is the DFWers. There are hundreds of pilots out of there. This would make the company increase gauge just to make sure they were not bunping too many revnue passengers.
 

FmrFreightDog

Py-lote
Joined
Jul 31, 2003
Posts
1,238
Total Time
1.2
I am guessing that they will have to. It happens every so often now and reserves have always been able to cover it.
One issues is the DFWers. There are hundreds of pilots out of there. This would make the company increase gauge just to make sure they were not bunping too many revnue passengers.

Yeah, I didn't think about the DFW thing. That would be a big issue. Seems like it would be easier to just re-open the base :)

Thanks for all the good info.
 

400ADude

Well-known member
Joined
May 8, 2006
Posts
606
Total Time
>3000
Don't forget, after giving up 47% of our pay, we also now have the use of a flight attendant jumpseat, as long as it is not taken by a stew......

Bye Bye--General Lee

At least you have a lot of flights to Africa to make up for that pay loss.
 

General Lee

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 24, 2002
Posts
20,442
Total Time
A lot
Yeah, I didn't think about the DFW thing. That would be a big issue. Seems like it would be easier to just re-open the base :)

Thanks for all the good info.

The DFW commute is awful. If you are lucky enough to get the jumpseat, that is one thing. If you can't, there is NO way you will get the flight attendant jump, or a regular seat in the back. There are hundreds of stews with 40 years at the company trying to get those seldom open seats in the back of the multitude of MD88s between DFW and ATL.

Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Top