CS Pay

[Kuma]

I dealt with all that as a regional pilot.

I overnighted in Detroit.

:laugh:

HAHAHA I forgot about Detroit. Lets just say that military pilots (and also regional pilots with overnights in Detroit) have paid in other ways...

 

[netjetwife]

B19- I don't think that you have the first idea of what military pilots "pay" for their training. .... The military pilot, on the other hand has earned his experience in the regions of the world that many would never choose to live. ... He has moved his family across the country or across the globe so that he can best support our government, and ultimately our way of life.

This post is not calling into question any sacrifices that civilian pilot-want-to-be's may have made; simply, it is a counter to your statement that military pilots have not paid for their experience or time.

If you are this uneducated about the experiences and sacrifices of the average military pilot, I definitely question your credibility with respect to unions.

Kuma

SHACK! A great post, Kuma, with the ring of truth. Thanks for your service to our country. B19, does have credibility problems-- as a number of posters have pointed out. Regards, NJW

 

[netjetwife]

....By going to CMH to do such things as represent pilots, assist with development of Training Programs, assist with implementation of ASAP, and for that matter, assist with a litany of programs that make the Company much more profitable, those volunteers effectively take a 15% pay loss. B19 falsely claims that those pilots are only serving the Union and he implies they're cheating the Company out of flying time. Nothing could be farther from the truth. NJA likes having a Steward always on duty in CMH to answer questions for 1108 and to help keep the working relationship on the right track. The Company asks Union volunteers to come to CMH for meetings and to work on joint projects. They rely heavily on some committee Chairmen and leaders for their input. Flight Pay Loss as the stipend is called, allows union volunteers to break even. That's the idea. From my understanding of the situation, all of the volunteers lose rather than gain monetarily. True for my husband, especially if you assign a value to the countless hours he has spent working at home on his days "off". You won't find that on your usual research source Wikipedia. You have to do real research. Cave, quite a few of us have been trying to explain how 1108 works. B19 doesn't want to hear it because it washes away the FUD he is wallowing in.

Your personal attacks on NJW, ....clearly a red herring. Another SHACK! In fact if you really did your research, you would know that the IBT1108 leadership played a significant role in the mechanics bargaining. That would be pilots helping maintainers. If you did your research you would also know that the relationship between IBT1108 and the Flight Attendant Union is strong and that the leadership of the Union has played a significant role in getting them a better contract. That would be pilots helping flight attendants. I know overall how good things are between the Union and other employee groups, but I didn't think about those pre-IBB examples. Thanks for giving credit where's it's due. NJA was very pleased with the 2007 CBA ...That makes it a Win-Win. Excellent point! I know that is not in your very limited vernacular but yes it is possible for both to win in negotiations. When the quarterly BH results come out soon, I would expect, based on the research that I have done to see another record quarter for NJA and BH. Wonderful! Congratulations to every employee at NJA for the great team work! You won't find that on Wikipedia either so go do some real research. Better yet stop spreading FUD and encourage managers to start motivating their workers instead of driving them away. Newsflash Fudspinners: Carrots work better than sticks.

It always cracks me up when you blame the Union for the fact that NJW's husband was furloughed from American Airlines. While his desperation can be amusing, I think B19's constant yapping from barking up the wrong tree is redundantly rude. Reality is AA management screwed the workers (all of them at AA). Why buy TWA? Stupid! AA management gave false hopes to the people of St Louis only to pull the rug out from under them. ...How many people were hired at AA on false promises, quit their previous jobs, packed up and moved to their AA hub, only to have AMR management screw the Company and steal from the employees. Absolutely! I'm so glad my husband just shared a crash pad instead of moving our family to DAL. He came home thoroughly disgusted--at management. ... Ever heard of Don Carty? He got the NJW boot from AMR and it was well deserved after stealing huge quantities of money in bonuses all the while asking for pay cuts from all employees. And laying off many like my husband. Executives often get huge bonuses for slashing the work force! Talk about robbing Peter to pay Paul! Those bonuses could have kept a lot of pilots employed. Corporate greed compels workers to unionize for protection. The FLOPS are a classic example of why Options pilots turned to 1108. It was not APA that screwed AA it was AMR management. It is quite clear how poor AMR management really was. There was an AMR Manager that got hired at NJA and she too got the NJW boot for performance. The NJ pilots saw it as a positive sign that NJA was serious about keeping morale high. She lacked the cooperative spirit upper management was nurturing. ... It is clear that in the debate battle with NJW you always lose (It's hard to argue with the truth) so why bother? How do I know, I have done my research to know that personal attack is clear indicator of debate failure. That pattern has been followed so much that I can validate the research. It's very predictable behavior from Union Busters. It does make for entertaining reading though. NJ pilots have PMed me from the road and passed messages thru my husband saying the same thing. I'm happy to oblige you guys How does it feel to get her black boot up your backside?

Hey, Cave, you're quite entertaining yourself! And you did a great job setting the record straight. If B19 still insists on standing in the square banging his drum.... FUD...FUD..FUD.. he will look just like the Village Idiot some of the posters have identified him as. I think I'll switch to red boots for a BEWARE OF FUD campaign. Seriously, thanks for supporting my right to comment on current industry events that affect my life and for defending my privilege of sharing the family perspective in this online community.
Best Regards,
Netjetwife

 

[fischman]

I dealt with all that as a regional pilot.

I overnighted in Detroit.

:laugh:

Holy crap man!!! Too funny!!!

:laugh:

 

[B19 Flyer]

Hey, Cave, you're quite entertaining yourself! And you did a great job setting the record straight. If B19 still insists on standing in the square banging his drum.... FUD...FUD..FUD.. he will look just like the Village Idiot some of the posters have identified him as. I think I'll switch to red boots for a BEWARE OF FUD campaign. Seriously, thanks for supporting my right to comment on current industry events that affect my life and for defending my privilege of sharing the family perspective in this online community.
Best Regards,
Netjetwife

There is no record set straight.

You have clearly disrespected all of the industry's rank and file employees by stating that they didn’t invest properly in their careers. In your opinion, if they had, they would obviously be pilots and with entitlement to all the money too. Total disregard and disrespect for employees that chose a different career path.

You have clearly stated that FLOPS pilots must “WIN” a contract, which is clearly different than “NEGOTIATE” a contract. In your mind, it’s a win-lose scenario, rather than a fairness situation.

You have clearly confused about the word “volunteer” and pay, and if the union didn’t exist, would your husband still “volunteer” his time with NJ management to help improve the carrier?

You spit out your pro-union propaganda with complete disregard for the other aviation employees that sacrifice once a union forces itself onto a property.

The is not a single word of “Fear”, “Uncertainty” or “Doubt” in this post, all it does is highlight the disrespect that one specific pilot’s wife has of her husband’s coworkers and the efforts that they have placed in their careers.

 

[B19 Flyer]

B19-

I don't think that you have the first idea of what military pilots "pay" for their training. While a student pilot in a United States' school undergoes his training, he is still living the comfortable life afforded by the United States. He may not be rich, but cell phones, fast food, air conditioning, beds with mattresses, public facilities and other creature comforts are common place.

The military pilot, on the other hand has earned his experience in the regions of the world that many would never choose to live. In these regions, he is dealing with gun fire, warfare, genocide and other purely disgusting aspects of the human existence. He is living without running water, air conditioning, sanitation, the internet, living structures that actually have walls/floors, or many of the other intangibles that US citizens consider standard. He has moved his family across the country or across the globe so that he can best support our government, and ultimately our way of life.

This post is not calling into question any sacrifices that civilian pilot-want-to-be's may have made; simply, it is a counter to your statement that military pilots have not paid for their experience or time.

If you are this uneducated about the experiences and sacrifices of the average military pilot, I definitely question your credibility with respect to unions.

Kuma

Just so you know where my statement came from, here is the direct quote from NJW that stirred up "investment" debate"

"Another good analogy, GF. All those rank and file frac workers...personally, I prefer CA1900's term-- support folks...were free to be pilots if they had chosen to make that investment. "

That would not offend you if you made a different choice of a career? People make different choices, and my direct observation is that if her husband had to dig into his own pocket to learn to fly like many of us did, would he have made the same choice? She is a non-pilot posting on the coat-tails of her husband, whom I don't know but respect simply based on his military background.

But for her to make that statement, is highly disrespectful of the rank file industry employees who made different career choices, but for which, not a single airplane would fly.

 

[fischman]

That would not offend you if you made a different choice of a career? People make different choices, and my direct observation is that if her husband had to dig into his own pocket to learn to fly like many of us did, would he have made the same choice? She is a non-pilot posting on the coat-tails of her husband, whom I don't know but respect simply based on his military background.

But for her to make that statement, is highly disrespectful of the rank file industry employees who made different career choices, but for which, not a single airplane would fly.

That is seriously offensive. How dare you belittle what a United States Soldier did for his country!?!

Shame on you. I didn't think that even YOU could sink that low. You owe him and EVERY other U.S. Soldier an apology for that one.

 

[B19 Flyer]

That is seriously offensive. How dare you belittle what a United States Soldier did for his country!?!

Shame on you. I didn't think that even YOU could sink that low. You owe him and EVERY other U.S. Soldier an apology for that one.

That's not what I said, and you know it. I need not say more.

My direct quote is, and I will stand by it:

She is a non-pilot posting on the coat-tails of her husband, whom I don't know but respect simply based on his military background.

 

[theskyking]

B19,

What in her post is so disrespectful? Let's take the quote that you have taken and tried to twist it out of it's context.

"Another good analogy, GF. All those rank and file frac workers...personally, I prefer CA1900's term-- support folks...were free to be pilots if they had chosen to make that investment. "

"...rank and file workers..." - pretty obviously refers to non management employees.

"...free to be pilots if they had chosen to make that investment." - which part of this do you have trouble with. They were certainly free to make the choice to become pilots and either didn't or are in the process. If they did pursue that track, there most certainly would have been an investment. This investment could have been monetary, or through a military commitment.

You are worse than a politician. You take a single talking point out of a whole eloquent thought and try to twist it to meet your agenda. Well, if you can't tell, nobody here is fooled. In fact, I rather enjoy watching a coat tail riding, non-pilot handle your asinine posts with such ease and tact. Keep up the good work.

 

[fischman]

That's not what I said, and you know it. I need not say more.

My direct quote is, and I will stand by it:

She is a non-pilot posting on the coat-tails of her husband, whom I don't know but respect simply based on his military background.

Perhaps you need a refresher of what you said? Well here it is.

People make different choices, and my direct observation is that if her husband had to dig into his own pocket to learn to fly like many of us did, would he have made the same choice?

How many of you feel like B19 feels like our military guys are freeloading to get their ratings? Am I the only one upset by these comments???

Don't tell me that is not what you said! THESE ARE YOUR OWN WORDS.