CS or JB ???

[Inspector 12]

Looking for good and bad for both. I have interviews with both and looking to see which would be a better fit.

 

[Hogprint]

Inspector,

I have three buds with former 121 backgrounds that also worked here at NJA.

Two made the jump to JB and love it. The third did not make it through the JB interview.

Looks like you have been corp in the past. CS may be more to your liking, but I would try and find some CS bubbas for the straight gouge.

Go over to the majors page and do some homework on the go JB or don't go JB threads. There are enough to keep you busy till Christmas!

 

[flighter]

Go to JB, you will eventually anyway.

 

[buttercup]

It's a no-brainer JB.. CS is by far the best of the fractionals.. JB is one of the best majors. I would still take even the shittiest major over the best fractional anyday of the week. The best you'll ever get at CS is 7on 7off. As you acrue seniority at a Major you'll work 12 days a month. That's approx. one month less of work per year, much more money, easier work..blah blah blah. Good luck with your future!!

 

[AA717driver]

Uh, yeah. If you have offers at both, it's a no brainer. JB starting pay is about $52k. CS is $36. Even with the relatively quick upgrade at CS, you'll only lag by about a year or two at JB (unless things go badly which is ALWAYS a possibility in the airlines). JB capt. pay is off the scale compared to CS.

JMO.TC

 

[cathaywannabe]

Majors aren't everything

It's really up to you. My experience is that economics is not everything.

So far I've been at 2 regionals, 1 major and 1 fractional. The fractional is the only place in my career that hasn't had a financial crisis.

I recently turned down a position at an LCC to stay at the fractional I'm currently employed with. Why would anyone do that? Well, I get a decent schedule, don't worry about my commute and quite frankly the entire airline industry still remains "unsustainable" with the exception of LUV.

The fractional I'm with has excellent health benefits and I enjoy the flying quite a bit.

I've developed a theory that from now on I would only go to a carrier (corp, frac, major, etc.) that I would invest my money in. Right now, I can't say I'd feel secure enough to invest my money in anything other than LUV or fractionals without attempting to speculate it.

Yes, the pay at fractionals is not what you are going to get at a major. However, so far I've been impressed with the financial stability and the lack of stress not worrying about my commute.

Whatever your decision, good luck!

 

[GVFlyer]

It's really up to you. My experience is that economics is not everything.

So far I've been at 2 regionals, 1 major and 1 fractional. The fractional is the only place in my career that hasn't had a financial crisis.

I recently turned down a position at an LCC to stay at the fractional I'm currently employed with. Why would anyone do that? Well, I get a decent schedule, don't worry about my commute and quite frankly the entire airline industry still remains "unsustainable" with the exception of LUV.

The fractional I'm with has excellent health benefits and I enjoy the flying quite a bit.

I've developed a theory that from now on I would only go to a carrier (corp, frac, major, etc.) that I would invest my money in. Right now, I can't say I'd feel secure enough to invest my money in anything other than LUV or fractionals without attempting to speculate it.

Yes, the pay at fractionals is not what you are going to get at a major. However, so far I've been impressed with the financial stability and the lack of stress not worrying about my commute.

Whatever your decision, good luck!

Good post. We recently had two pilots from JetBlue interview for a position. They said that others of their colleagues had gone to Southwest, UPS, and FedEx as well as returning to the airlines that furloughed them. However, there are pilots from JB on this board who seem to be very happy where they are. Again, though, you don't know where they were working before they got on at Neeleman's outfit.

Coincidentily, I have recently (within the last week) spoken with the former CEO of a legacy airline and the current CEO of a regional airline and both have said that Neeleman made a bad decision not only breaking the Southwest single airplane formula, but also by adding short range, market specfic aircraft to do so. They also said that the $100 million in debt JetBlue was assuming for capitlization in facilities from New York to Florida was a mistake - that they were transitioning from a paper airline to one that resembled a legacy airline.

Citation Shares seems more stable - it's the profitable subsidiary of a profitable aircraft manufacturer which is in turn the profitable subsidiary of a major defence contractor. It also seems to be staffed by shiney happy people with no labor issues.

GV

 

[El Chupacabra]

and there is a rumour CS 1st yr pay may go to 80K 4th yr maybe 96K.

 

[Hair-on-Fire]

................

 

[LandGreen]

Looking for good and bad for both. I have interviews with both and looking to see which would be a better fit.

oh my...if you have to ask...stay with CS

 

[GVFlyer]

1. I'm not sure these are the guys you want to get advice from.

How can you say this without knowing which airlines these men led or lead?

2. CS is not profitable, and the employees would be last to know if it was going to shut down tomorrow. It is not a public company and does not publish it's finances.

Your statement is , of course, nonsense. Citation Shares is a part of Cessna, a subsidiary of Textron, a publicly traded company. The following is from Textron's last 10K filing with the Securities and Exchange Commision.

Cessna Revenues
The Cessna segment's revenues increased $174 million in 2004, compared with 2003, primarily due the $76 million increase from the consolidation of CitationShares, $39 million of higher pricing and a $12 million benefit from lower used aircraft overtrade allowances. Citation business revenue jet deliveries were 179 in 2004, compared with 194 jets in 2003.

3. CS seems to be staffed by shiney happy people with no labor issues because those with "issues" get fired.

Your proof of this allegation?



GV






~

 

[learflyer]

Go with JB for the love of god! I've never flown airline, but it seems like a little bit easier on a day to day basis than would be a frac. Even though we fly our a$$es off, flying is only about 10% of the normal daily routine.

 

[Hair-on-Fire]

.........

 

[G100driver]

and there is a rumour CS 1st yr pay may go to 80K 4th yr maybe 96K.

Yes, and NetJets is going to have industry leading pay where 5th year captains make $125k.

 

[GVFlyer]

How can you say this without knowing which airlines these men led or lead?

Ok then, tell us who they were and we'll evaluate them.

I'll tell you who one of them is, the other doesn't want to be quoted. Bryan Bedford, President and CEO of Republic Holdings was jointly responsible for the comments concerning JetBlue in my original post. I assume you feel yourself to be better qualified to comment on the airline business than those who are hired to run them? Who is "we"? For what group are you the spokesperson?

(In response to Hair-on-Fire's claim that Citation Shares was a private company which was losing money)
Your statement is , of course, nonsense. Citation Shares is a part of Cessna, a subsidiary of Textron, a publicly traded company. The following is from Textron's last 10K filing with the Securities and Exchange Commision.


Cessna Revenues
The Cessna segment's revenues increased $174 million in 2004, compared with 2003, primarily due the $76 million increase from the consolidation of CitationShares, $39 million of higher pricing and a $12 million benefit from lower used aircraft overtrade allowances. Citation business revenue jet deliveries were 179 in 2004, compared with 194 jets in 2003.

Your statement is , of course, nonsense. Just because Textron chooses to lump their CitationShares expenses in with Cessna doesn't mean they're profitable. In fact, your quote just says that revenue increased anyway. Perhaps you don't know the difference.

Your response reminds me that the difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits. Apparently in your position as group spokesman, reading comprehension is not required. Reread the extract from the SEC 10K filing slowly and you will see that $76 million of Cessna's $174 million revenue increase came from Citation Shares.

I just checked Textron's most recent 10Q filing and Citation Shares is responsible for $40 million in revenues contributing to Cessna's first quarter profits of $65 million.

Remember that you first asserted that Citation Shares was a private company and no financial information was available. Not only is that wrong, but your assumption that financial information on privately held companies is not available is absurd. Such information is readily available from companies such as Hoovers and OneSource.

CS is a joint venture between Cessna and TAG.

This is common knowledge. Do you know how much of Citation Shares Cessna owns? I thought not. Cessna owns 75%.

Your proof of this allegation?

Your disproof of this allegation?

Apparently you are unable to answer my original question with anything except meaningless rhetoric so I will ask it in a way you might understand: Name one person who has been wrongfully terminated from Citation Shares and has subsequently prevailed in court.

GV