Crews flying high at CitationShares!

[Guitar rocker]

I think we finally located a CS pilot who has his head on straight.

Finally, a lucid discussion of CS stuff. What, did they start letting CS management post here finally?

Keep up the good work DB. Guitar and other flamers, y'all are in fer it now.

Man, I thought you would have learned your lesson after your free week in the box...guess not. You just said flamer??? Your 55 years old! C'mon!Reservations.........hello??? One for the penalty box please. Somethin tells me your going back to solitary confinement this time.

 

[FLYLOW22]

DB,

Thanks for your answers. There sure is alot of attitude on here. I thought that NJA offered overtime for early morning trips. Isn't it citation policy that your day starts and ends at 3 am, not midnight?

Thanks for your help.

NJA pays OT on day one for any early start from 0000L to 0800L (HBA/DOM time) in quarterly incremements.

NJA pays OT for duty on day 1 after 9 hours of duty to 12 hours of duty but only for duty days beginning prior to 0800L HBA/DOM time.

NJA pays OT for any day of duty exceeding 12 hours going until the clock stops. Most days go no longer that 14 hours and can only exceed 14 hours voluntarily by the crewmember.

Hope that helps.

 

[Guitar rocker]

GR,

Look, I know that you want to hear me say it was all b/c of your union.

If you want my honest opinion, this is it...(fyi...I'm NOT a cool-aid drinker either, trust me)

When I started at CS, a good portion of my interview consisted of what my loyalty to the company would be. I got the "How long will you stay" question, "you wouldn't leave, would you" question, "we don't want people to use us as a stepping stone" and so on. I have never worked anywhere...and I've worked for quite a few places now darnit, that seem to take leaving so personally.

They have told me from day 1 that they want us to be happy, both financially and with QOL. They don't want turnover, that part is obvious. Then last summer morale started slipping b/c of certain things going on....folks were leaving for Continental, JetBlue, etc....I was flying with guys that were on the fence about leaving. Management knew this was going on. There were strong rumors going on from people that would be "in the know" that the company was working on an "incentive" to keep people on the property.

So, to answer your question....I'm quite confident that our raises were "in the works" and it was just a matter of timing that we got ours right after your contract was achieved. However, I could be wrong. Maybe we got our raises a little sooner b/c of you guys, maybe we got a little more. I definatly don't think that we got them based ONLY on your contract. Like I said though, it may have helped in part...and that's great, thank you to your union. To be honest, I can't believe you guys didn't strike....you were being hosed for TOO LONG. All my friends over there are finally happy with their job. How say you?

DBCoopper, Thanks for your post and answers below.....Trash just cant seem to answer anything. I can relate to someone who is sensible and realistic. I am happy for you guys and the raise you got. I appreciate the "thank you to your union" part as well.

 

[Guitar rocker]

XP and Rocker, we know you like the union and you're happy to admit it. So with the freedom of speach act, why can't us who dislike the union say that as well without being called names and told we were wrong to have that type of outlook? Seems a little one sided to me. It really hurts you guys to see a company progress and treat their employees as well as CS does without us having to fight tooth and nail for what we have. Face it, we're happy here and I wouldn't want to be anywhere else. I investigated all the fracs out there before I even applied at CS. All I know was CS was the one for me and I am happy I chose it that way.

Bogart, where has anyone here tried to drive union down your throat??? You guys started some threads saying that you dont want a union. That is fine and many here have acknowledged you. However, some have posted why infact a union is good for pilots and companies in times of mergers (XPguy) and after those facts were presented, the question was asked, what from this list of pros for unions do you find unfavorable? Nobody seems to want to touch that question and all we get in response is that "why cant us who dislike unions say that as well without being called names and told that we were wrong to have that type of outlook." Nobody is telling you that you are wrong at all. How about just answering our questions???

 

[Guitar rocker]

Just like you aren't going to change our view on you, FracTRASH. We could care less what you think of the union. It is obvious that you have no clue what you're talking about, and no matter how many times you try to post inaccurate information, or how bad you try to make CS pilots look dumb, we will always know "it's just Fractrash, and his opinion doesn't count because this is his first jet job". And disputing that is also beating a dead horse.

Ha aha haaa!

 

[Guitar rocker]

Guess you got fired before they changed all that.

Dont be so ignorant. She's just asking a question.

 

[Fozzy]

2) Training on days off is coming to an end the end of this year. That has not been seen in writing yet, but it is a strong rumor and I think it will happen. They know we don't like it. Also recurrent is going to be a 5 day affair focusing more on company op's instead of mainly just a sim check.

Oh. I thought is was coming to an end this spring. Did they push it back??? So how many work days per year does that make it?
Humm, I guess that would be good to have in writting.
Here is my prediction. You will always train on your days off. Prove me wrong.

 

[DBCOOPER]

Flylow22,

Look man, there is never a bad time for a raise. I think you're looking a little too deep into this. We were already being paid well, better than most. Now we're making even more.....and we never asked for it. How can you still manage to turn it somehow into a negative?

 

[DBCOOPER]

Oh Fozzy my friend,

Well I don't have to "prove" anything. Either we'll get it or we won't. I'm pretty sure we will....I don't see our management sending us on a 7 day on trip, then 5 days of training, 2 off, then 7 on again.

If you look at what they've done so far, things are moving forward....not backward at CS.

 

[XPGuy]

GR,

Look, I know that you want to hear me say it was all b/c of your union.

If you want my honest opinion, this is it...(fyi...I'm NOT a cool-aid drinker either, trust me)

When I started at CS, a good portion of my interview consisted of what my loyalty to the company would be. I got the "How long will you stay" question, "you wouldn't leave, would you" question, "we don't want people to use us as a stepping stone" and so on. I have never worked anywhere...and I've worked for quite a few places now darnit, that seem to take leaving so personally.

They have told me from day 1 that they want us to be happy, both financially and with QOL. They don't want turnover, that part is obvious. Then last summer morale started slipping b/c of certain things going on....folks were leaving for Continental, JetBlue, etc....I was flying with guys that were on the fence about leaving. Management knew this was going on. There were strong rumors going on from people that would be "in the know" that the company was working on an "incentive" to keep people on the property.

So, to answer your question....I'm quite confident that our raises were "in the works" and it was just a matter of timing that we got ours right after your contract was achieved. However, I could be wrong. Maybe we got our raises a little sooner b/c of you guys, maybe we got a little more. I definatly don't think that we got them based ONLY on your contract. Like I said though, it may have helped in part...and that's great, thank you to your union. To be honest, I can't believe you guys didn't strike....you were being hosed for TOO LONG. All my friends over there are finally happy with their job. How say you?

Nice post, DBCooper. It is nice to actually see someone post from Citation Shares that doesn't have a big chip on his shoulder regarding a Union, only to have that, with no reason to have it.

The points you make are excellent. Basically, as long as the employer takes care of his employees, he has no fear of a Union coming onto the property. There was a time at both RTA and Flight Options before we merged that both of our company's pilots were for the most part, happy with their management.

Unfortunately, with no contract, things can change in a heartbeat. All it takes is a change in management, or a merger. In our cases at RTA and Flight Options, both occurred, and when it did, our lives went straight to hell, and neither company was fun to work at anymore because of benefits being taken away, raises that were hinted at were not delivered, and favoritism reigned on upgrades - seniority was not respected.

In that type of environment in the Aviation industry, it always leads down the same path: Favoritism = unhappy employees. The environment becomes political, and it is no longer based on your job performance for raises or promotions, but "who you know", and "who likes you". Everything else becomes arbitrary. Throw a merger into the works with no seniority protection, and you get what happened to us - a biased system that hurt pilots from both companies in seniority and our most important item to most people, "pay".

It is really terriffic that Citation Shares did what they did. You guys have it good right now... there really isn't a need for a union, unless you see a trend of politics interfering with upgrades, which has rumored to already be true.

Unfortunately, that is not an option at Flight Options, LLC. Our management is corrupt and the attrition in management is as high as our pilots - we have gone through 4 CEO's in under 4 years, our sales staff has had over 50% attrition, probably closer to 80% (in fact we lost a bunch of guys at the same time to Citation Shares), and our puppet CEO has cut most of the quality of life issues that brought us to Flight Options rather than wanting to go to Net Jets at the time of hire. Upgrades have gone from 6 months to 5 years, and we continue to see our quality of life perks whittled away by management, all to save a buck, while at the same time, they reward themselves with bonuses, free harley davidsons, and free trips on our airplanes to places such as New York for shopping sprees or Disney World for their families.

Our pilots have no choice but to unionize, not to mention the very VERY real threat that Raytheon has set us up in the last 60 days to be sold. They recently placed the around 300 ex- flight options mechanics who had previously went to Raytheon Aircraft services BACK on the Flight Options payroll, as well as bought the remaining 4% of our shares that they did not own. This makes us a nice complete little package for someone to purchase - either outright or in pieces.

We pilots have no protection should we merge with another company. Should Net Jets purchase us, they are union, we aren't - without being a union, we would have a bad situation for merging seniority lists... that goes for any company that should purchase us, whether it be Swift, TAG aviation, whomever. Any company could buy us, and do what they want with us, and that includes our pay or benefits. For instance. Swift could buy us, and say "sorry, we can't pay you that wage", or "well, our benefits don't cover dental, you'll have to pick that up", whatever. The point is we have no say, nor any protection. Many believe we WILL be sold this year. This is a solid and valid concern, and I'm sorry, but there is NOTHING, save a Union, that will change that protection.

Also, our company was the only company that publically told its pilots after Net Jets' contract ratified, that they would NOT be matching. That kicked our union drive into overdrive, and in less than a month we had enough cards for a vote. Only after the company found out that we were going to have a vote did they have a change of heart and "were looking at a new compensation package" for us.

So as you can see, our situation is vastly different than Citation Shares'. We have no choice but to unionize, management has made that a reality... not just in our morale and how they are managing us, but our vitality as a company. There are SOOO many reasons, as you see, for us to be a union.

So, love it while you can, Citation Shares. I hope you NEVER need a Union, that'd be great. However, history has shown, that it will more than likely only be a matter of time before that will change. Flight Options will be unionized by April 2006. Flex Jet is right behind us, they'll be a Union probably before the end of the year... when that happens, both companies will start to negotiate their contracts. When THAT happens, and contracts are ratified, we all will have overtime, paid benefits, seniority protection along with all the other protections a union affords, etc. etc. etc.

It is highly unlikely that Citation Shares would just match everything from benefits to overtime. Maybe I'm wrong. Only time will tell, but history shows that companies just don't do that if they don't HAVE to. If they do it to avoid the union, then you continue to win without paying the 1.5% dues that the rest of the industry pays, and that'll be good for you.

So. I hope Bogart and Fractrash can be mature enough to understand why we want a union. We don't want a union, we NEED a union at both Flight Options and Flex Jet, because management has made it that way. Citation Shares hasn't done that, yet... let's all pray they don't and you guys continue to reap the rewards the IBT 1108 fights for. We're all after the same thing, a great career with great incentives, and of course, continuing to offer the safest mode of transportation for our customers.

Let's wish us ALL luck in accomplishing our goals.