Court Ruling

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Wow! The Flex pilots really lucked out with Judge Gwinn's recent ruling. The company took the position that the Flex pilots should be "folded-in" to the Options contract under Section 1.5, but the Judge ruled the negotiations were broad enough to be covered under Section 6. So, the company cannot force the Flex pilots onto the Options pay scales like they wanted to do.

 

[doh]

Yes, AND he included the part of Sullivan's testimony in which he states the company didn't agree to VSP. So we know Weiss lied too!

 

[shanes123]

Why are both sides so fast to say they one in court ? I didn't see a big win for this pilot group or the company. And what happened to the contempt charges against the big 4 ? Not a thing as usual? Seriously need a explanation on that This company and pilot group is pathetic

 

[dime line]

Why are both sides so fast to say they one in court ? I didn't see a big win for this pilot group or the company. And what happened to the contempt charges against the big 4 ? Not a thing as usual? Seriously need a explanation on that This company and pilot group is pathetic

The company initiates.....the union reacts, it can never be the other way

 

[shanes123]

I will ask again. The contempt of court charges ? What's the ruling what's the punishment?

 

[cougar12]

I will ask again. The contempt of court charges ? What's the ruling what's the punishment?

The judge answered it. The contempt issue was moot because the union did not want to force the company to go back to pilots the had already taken and received the VSP prior to his ruling even though that is what was suppose to happen. He ruled however, the VSP that was negotiated with the union was an agreement and the company has to sign the agreement. I believe they will have to offer it to the pilot group.
Furthermore he ordered the company to start bargaining in good faith under section 6 (CBA or JCBA) .
Both sides agreed to arbitrate the Flare jet issue since it was scheduled for arbitration a week later so that issue was off the table for contempt.

 

[cougar12]

I will ask again. The contempt of court charges ? What's the ruling what's the punishment?

I know a lot of pilots wanted them punished in court with a fine or jail time. But we want a JCBA more. Plus I think the VSP is going to cost them millions. They can not crew airplanes now, wait till they HAVE to offer the VSP. I heard 70+ people asked for it. They will not be able to hire anyone worth a damn to replace those pilots.

 

[J3guy]

So those that notified the company last year that they wanted the vsp, and do leave in the next month or two for a job that they had secured, would be entitled to the pay out?

 

[shanes123]

So what happens when the company continues the shenanigans and they could very well sign the VSP but not actually offer it. Or offer it to 1 pilot. Bargaining in good faith is subjective they claim they have been bargaining in good faith already. I just don't see a win here. If I am missing something I would love to have someone enlighten me.

 

[cougar12]

So those that notified the company last year that they wanted the vsp, and do leave in the next month or two for a job that they had secured, would be entitled to the pay out?

We will have to wait and see. As S123 says we have to see how the company interprets the ruling and what they do. They could just sign the agreement and not offer it. Unfortunately, this company tends to do things less than straight forward and the union has to fight them in arbitration or the courts. They then use this as evidence of the union trying to disrupt company plans to support the pilots.

My hope for the pilots is the company and the union work together to interpret the ruling and come to an agreement before anything is released.

 

[cougar12]

So what happens when the company continues the shenanigans and they could very well sign the VSP but not actually offer it. Or offer it to 1 pilot. Bargaining in good faith is subjective they claim they have been bargaining in good faith already. I just don't see a win here. If I am missing something I would love to have someone enlighten me.

I tend to agree with you I am just not quite as negative. It was a win. I think more than anything it improves the unions position in the eyes of the arbitrator.

 

[Imissmypilot]

I will ask again. The contempt of court charges ? What's the ruling what's the punishment?

Read the decision very carefully. The judge gives his clear assessment in several areas without an actual ruling, leaving the door open on everything not "herebyed"

Just one is regarding the comtempt. The way I read it the judge found them definitely in contempt but to do anything about it would require the union to agree the settled beneficiaries of the VSP would have to give their money back. The union chose in the intetests of the pilots both former and future in lieu of the sweetness of punishing the executives. But make no mistake - the judge clearly said he would have. I also read the door is left open for him to bring down the hammer if they monkey around.

For instance, if they sign but don't offer... if they don't make the furloghees whole if more tham 25 Options take the VSP will be an interesting future debate.

Uncle's attempted delay cost him many many millions. At some point investors are going to question his judgement. I don't know, maybe the owners who just got a letter are paying attention now. Can you say perfect timing? Now how many Rencavages see the situation the same way a day later?

If Uncle doesn't work hard to settle a CBA now after this ruling and owners paying attention he doesn't deserve to be in charge nor should you want to entrust your future to him no matter how hard you yammer jam it.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Now with arbitrator Fishgold's help, The merged pilot group will get an MCBA,not a JCBA, or an ICBA(like the company wanted). The disparity in pay will have to be explained. If they can pay Red Label pay to some Flex pilots, Why can't they pay them ALL for doing the same work? And for the Options pilots... if they can pay Lear pilots what they do, why can't that pay include Phenom pilots which fly a plane slightly lighter? And now what happens? DF and JW are calling Flex pilots and telling them they will be "folded into the options pay scales". Where did that come from? Once again, scamanagement has it 180 degrees wrong.

 

[V1 Rotate]

And now what happens? DF and JW are calling Flex pilots and telling them they will be "folded into the options pay scales". Where did that come from? Once again, scamanagement has it 180 degrees wrong.

Someone just posted to Yammer worried about this very thing. They're also concerned that if you're not a MIGs, you can't fly a Flexjet aircraft.

 

[doh]

There is a simple solution for that concern...