Could this be the start of the END of Southwest Airlines?

[Dash Power]

Hey,
The big question is, if SWA can operate with pilot pay so high, why can't the legacies do the same?

Productivity. We are an average of 25 to 30% more productive per pilot than the legacies.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Productivity. We are an average of 25 to 30% more productive per pilot than the legacies.

Not just pilot productivity, as Dash Power pointed out. Everyone's productivity. SWA has something like 59 or 60 total employees per airplane while other airlines have more. Some, a lot more. A few years back, USAair's number was about 100/plane while United was actually 112/plane. They've both reduced that through restructuring since their respective BKs, but they're still in the order of 80-90 employees per plane, way above SWA's. ALL of our employees are more productive, so we can get paid more per employee.

Hope this helps.

Bubba

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Productivity. We are an average of 25 to 30% more productive per pilot than the legacies.

Including the seats on a 777 vs 737? My question is will SWA be able to remain competitive in the future as it relates to overall pilot seniority and airframe size dispairity? Productivity is clearly non defined, when FAR limitations determine block limits, so given 100% seating capacity, how are you more productive? I understand SWA flies each airframe 2 more legs daily than the competition, but that is operational efficiency, my question is as it relates to pilots.....

 

[Dash Power]

I understand SWA flies each airframe 2 more legs daily than the competition, but that is operational efficiency, my question is as it relates to pilots.....

You answered your own question. All the employees are more productive or in your words, more operationally efficient.

Our airplanes fly on average two to four more hours a day than the legacies. The pilots, along with other employee groups are equally as efficient.

Our average line is about 80 hours a month. Many pilots fly extra up to 100 hours a month and 1000 hours a year.

I think you are confusing productivity with number of passengers carried verses an employees productivity.

Being a point to point carrier allows the business model to naturally be more efficient than a hub and spoke.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Including the seats on a 777 vs 737? My question is will SWA be able to remain competitive in the future as it relates to overall pilot seniority and airframe size dispairity? Productivity is clearly non defined, when FAR limitations determine block limits, so given 100% seating capacity, how are you more productive? I understand SWA flies each airframe 2 more legs daily than the competition, but that is operational efficiency, my question is as it relates to pilots.....

Well, that is a good question--and a complicated one. There's lots of variables. Every (modern) airliner has two pilots, regardless of seating capacity (not counting augmentation for longer duty days). Historically, SWA averages just under 11 pilots/plane. Other airlines have more, and obviously long haul with augmentation further adds to that. SWA's pilot effeciencies stem from getting the most amount of work from each pilot per workday. That's NOT the normal for a lot of other airlines. We have lean reserve manning, so that people don't sit around getting paid to do nothing. Often (well, honestly, nearly always) that means more flying than the reserves can cover, so there's extra, premium-paid flying for others after the reserves are all used. I have friends at other airlines who brag about sitting around doing nothing all month while on reserve. That's certainly not efficient. Paying premium on some trips is still cheaper than paying people to do nothing.

Anyway, if you combine SWA's fewer pilots/plane with more hours flown per day per plane, that adds up to a serious pilot efficiency advantage. For international ops requiring augmentation, I'm sure the same sort of dynamics will be used, although I don't know specifically how. For all I know, rather than use 3 pilots to do a HI turn in 12 flight hours, we'll have 2 pilots fly two one-hour legs, THEN a six hour to HI to layover. It's certainly cheaper to buy a hotel than to pay a third pilot.

A lot of this is fundamental in the difference between SWAPA and ALPA (not trying to incite a new union war thread here). ALPA's strategy is a maximum 70 hours per month per pilot, so you need more pilots. SWAPA's strategy is to not have a maximum, just a minimum, so that the existing pilots can fly as much as possible. That's more efficient for the company AND for the pilots. I guess we'll see exactly how that plays out in international ops in the coming years.

Any better?

Bubba

 

[Ty Webb]

I bet she still cuts it in 4 equal squares instead of straight across or diagonal. I can see it now:

The General smells burnt grilled cheese, pauses SuperMario and comes up from the basement with his orange penis (reference Cheetos), Zuba pants on, nunchucks over his shoulder, a chinese star stuck in the wall of his dark brown wood paneled dining room, a mother of pearl colored wife-beater covered by his double breasted sub commander Delta jacket, and his 15 year old FO hat on at the dinner table. In his lap as dinner is served are his two gerbils named Anderson and Grinstein.

Mom at table:

"I am sure glad your wife was drunk the night she married you. It's ironic an Accountant married someone that has stayed with a company that is financially Fu<ked-up as a football bat. Ketchup with your grilled cheese, honey? Do Anderson and Grinstein need more butter?"

Holy pajamas, Batman!

An old-school FI smack down, of the highest order!

General, you will have to up your game significantly . . . . Knocking the Labuttocks layovers won't cut it this time . . . . . .. Surely, with 10,000+ posts, you can cobble together a worthy rejoinder . . . . although the orange cheetos remark is pretty tough to beat (pun intended). :laugh:

 

[canyonblue]

You are so full of crap. I don't believe a word of that.

Living alone in your mothers basement, likely.

Gentle Lea: It rubs the lotion on its skin. It does this whenever it is told.

OYS: Mister... my family will pay cash. Whatever ransom you're askin' for, they pay it.

GL: It rubs the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again.
[to his dog, Precious] Yes, it will, Precious, won't it? It will get the hose!

OYS: Okay... okay... okay. Mister, if you let me go, I won't - I won't press charges I promise. See, my mom is a real important woman... I guess you already know that.

GL: Now it places the lotion in the basket.

OYS: Please! Please I wanna go home! I wanna go home please!

GL: It places the lotion in the basket.

OYS: I wanna see my mommy! Please I wanna see my...

GL: Put the f**king lotion in the basket!

 

[Whataburger]

Holy pajamas, Batman!

An old-school FI smack down, of the highest order!

General, you will have to up your game significantly . . . . Knocking the Labuttocks layovers won't cut it this time . . . . . .. Surely, with 10,000+ posts, you can cobble together a worthy rejoinder . . . . although the orange cheetos remark is pretty tough to beat (pun intended). :laugh:

Word up.:laugh:

Maybe it should be GENERAL CHEESE from now on?

"Tough to beat." lol!!

 

[FDJ2]

Kinda harsh there FDJ....you don't think the AT guys will have "buyers remorse" six months in when they finally get a peek behind the tent, do you?

What would be worse is a deal like this, then have the 717s abruptly parked. How does the current agreement address that?

Nu

It is harsh, and deservedly so, given the circumstances.

I think with out a doubt there will be buyers remorse and it will haunt SWA for decades to come.

There is a road map forward, it starts with honoring contracts and your agreements, specifically the process agreement, not threatening to unilaterally abandon your obligations and say sue me. Pathetic.

 

[FlyinGuy]

Booohooo....it is business.....and it does not include you.....