Could Dalpa ask for NWALPA 70 seat plan?

[ATR-DRIVR]

Well, hate to tell you but GG has stated 'NO PLANS' for 'spinning off' two portions of DL that is profitable. Sorry, I don't know where you are getting the idea that ASA plans on taking more of the '47%'. We don't 'take' anything. DL tells us where to fly and which plane. Obviously you don't get that for some reason.

I would agree that there are 'contractors' out there who would jump at the chance to 'feed' the hub. When GG sees how low he would have to pay them, he might just give them more than your '47%' and wonder why he didn't do it earlier!
Oh, yeah, I am sure that he would just love to 'negotiate' more block hr percentage too.

It is painfully obvious that you have to be the most bitter pilot out there. Blame ASA and Comair for 'taking your job'. Right. Hey, we are just 'contractors' who happen to be owned by DL.

I am on record for not wanting ANYONE to be furloughed. You are included also.
I sure hope you find peace at some point.

 

[N2264J]

Could Dalpa ask for NWALPA 70 seat plan

You are a contractor and will always be one so learn to live with it.

If ASA and Comair are contractors, what are the terms of the contract?

What is the duration of the contract?

 

[DAL737FO]

Well, hate to tell you but GG has stated 'NO PLANS' for 'spinning off' two portions of DL that is profitable. Sorry, I don't know where you are getting the idea that ASA plans on taking more of the '47%'. We don't 'take' anything. DL tells us where to fly and which plane. Obviously you don't get that for some reason.

I would agree that there are 'contractors' out there who would jump at the chance to 'feed' the hub. When GG sees how low he would have to pay them, he might just give them more than your '47%' and wonder why he didn't do it earlier!
Oh, yeah, I am sure that he would just love to 'negotiate' more block hr percentage too.

It is painfully obvious that you have to be the most bitter pilot out there. Blame ASA and Comair for 'taking your job'. Right. Hey, we are just 'contractors' who happen to be owned by DL.

I am on record for not wanting ANYONE to be furloughed. You are included also.
I sure hope you find peace at some point.

You see this is the problem with e-mail/forums, you don't get the tone or body language of the person writing the post and a lot of time it comes across as bitter/defensive/arrogant/rude or many other ways that it was not intended. I thought my post was pretty straight forward about our current contract at Delta. We, the Delta pilots, signed a contract that allowed contracting out of 47%, and up to 49% under certain circumstances, of our block hours. Most of us furloughed found other work and started our waiting game to be recalled. Do we like to see 47% of "Delta" flying with aircraft that say Connection on the sides. NO, but that was the deal we signed. However that being said that other 53% of block hours should and will be flown by aircaft that say Delta Air Lines on the side...no connection. If not then the company is not complying with our contract. That is about as non emotional, or for some reason you say bitter, that I can put it. I do not blame ASA or Comair for taking any jobs as I've stated before. I have also stated before that the 47% belongs to whatever connection carrier the management decides to award it to, however I do stand by my statement that the other 53% belongs to mainline.

 

[~~~^~~~]

This doesn't even require an discussion. The connection airlines are capped at 57 total 70 seat RJ's period.

Wrong. The RJDC lawsuit was filed within the statute of limitations for the changes from the 96 PWA to the c2K PWA.

So yes, there is going to be discussion and may very well be a trial, with lots O' discussin going on.

Compressed into a 90 minute presentation - it is easy to see that ALPA, at the direction of a preferred group of members, arbitrarily moved the scope limit, and now is in the process of taking those jobs from their non-preferred members. ( See heads nodding affirmatively in the jury box - yep )

And yes there is a difference between us and NWA. The RJDC has secured a beach head. Tell Woerth we are coming to end ALPA tyranny.

~~~^~~~

P.S. Interesting how it was that General and others called me crazy with no proof that ALPA was going to try this and yet, in a couple of weeks, here's some proof of ALPA's ( then ) covert activity.

P.S.S. At US Air, United and the other ALPA J4J carriers the mainline pilots have not carried over pay for their years of service at the regional jet operation. Without pay for their years of service, the mainline pilots are flying for 20% to 40% less than their regional counterparts.

A dollar is a dollar - mainline management teams put the arplanes where they are cheapest to operate. Again, I told you so! ALPA's failed scope policy now has the mainline guys fully participating in the race to the bottom. In fact, their "superior" negotiating position has given them the inside track.

So why is ALPA continuing down the wrong course? Instead of simply blasting the RJDC and Dan Ford's writings, why not look there and see if there is a better idea? ALPA's plan obviously is not working.

~~~^~~~

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

DAL737FO,

I agree with you in regard to tone and body language, can definitely be misconstrued at times. I also agree that the 53% of DAL flying is yours, always have. What I got out of your post was that you think that we are begging, stealing, borrowing, negotiating or whatever, more than the 47%. That is all we have as dictated by DL and your contract. We have zero control if they assign us X amount of flying. If that means more planes here, then it means more planes here. You woudn't say, 'thanks but no thanks' if DL wanted more planes at mainline would you? Hey, I would rather have mainline getting planes by the boatload along with the pilots to fly them which translates into more money for DL, upgrades for you and the General! It also means more of those same things here! And hiring at mainline! You grow, we grow. The percentages will stay the same.

 

[79%N1]

Round and round GL!!!!

As much as I don't like to see anyone out of work, I will bluntly state that it is not my job to concern myself with the 1000 furlougs at Delta! They dont work for my company, and are not my problem. I have only myself to worry about. Delta pilots wont corncern themselves if my company is having financial trouble, stagnates or furloughs!! To say you guys give a rats a$$ about us is bull! So, I say again, hands off our 70 seaters!

 

[surplus1]

Who said ANYTHING about you losing your job? What? I never ever said anything about TAKING your CR7s---I just pointed out that NWALPA made a new category for 70 seaters---even at a competitive pay rate. I thought that was interesting.

Isn't that nice of you. You're just a freindly, innocent, well meaning "buddy" pointing out the obvious. That's nice man. Maybe DAL ALPA can be like NWALPA and make a new category for 70-seaters, at competitive rates of course. That wouldn't be interesting.

Then again mabye Comair and ASA could make a new category for 100-seaters, you know, at competitive rates with say Jet Blue. Now that might be interesting, don't you think?

 

[flx757]

More cowbell

Guess what?? I got a feevah. And the only prescription is more cowbell...

http://www.weebls-stuff.com/testy/cowbell.swf

 

[surplus1]

If we just pull together and love each other your feevah will go away and you won't need any more cowbell.

http://atomfilms.shockwave.com/static/jibjabdaughter.html?id=this_land&preplay=1

 

[DoinTime]

I find it really hard to believe that NWA pilots would give Pinnacle and XJ pilots a flow through agreement without a flow back agreement...something for nothing in this industry?

I believe the proposal is for the new 70-seaters to be operated at one of the Airlink carriers with Airlink ground service, Airlink flight attendants, Airlink mechanics, ect... The only attachment they would have to mainline would be the cockpit crews. Essentially a Jets for Jobs deal. As the mainline pilots were recalled open positions would be available for bid by pilots at the carrier that the aircraft were placed at. As Northwest begins to hire again open new vacancies would be filled with Airlink pilots.

The only tough part is the carrier (Pinnacle or Mesaba) that is selected at the operator of the new equipment is the only one sacrificing anything, so should the other carrier get to enjoy the rewards? If so, how do you integrate the two Airlinks into one list for flow-up purposes?

 

[Ace McCoy]

Not so much J4J yet

From reading the release from the NWA MEC that is posted on the Mesaba ALPA website it sounds like NWA will operate the 70 seaters on their own certificate. They are calling it "NW70" and it would be a contract within a contract. Basically, Northwest pilots working under a mesaba contract but still NW employees. It would not be a J4J because it would be NW planes and pilots. NW70 will not have a defined benefit plan only a 401k and the first openings would be offered to the furloughees but there would be a provision to allow those people to bypass recall to NW70 and wait for recall at NW. As slots open up at NW70, Pinnacle and Mesaba dudes would be able to flow up. How that would work would need to be negotiated. And there will be no flow back. Remember, this is a proposal from the NWA MEC to management and I'm sure a lot will change before anything gets put in stone.

The downside is XJ would probably have the Avro replaced by the new 70 seater since the Avro is not the most efficient plane out there. I'm not sure we could handle more furloughs and being an all Saab fleet is pretty disappointing. The upside though would be a job at NWA (eventually, maybe) but who knows what it will be like there in 5 years.

Once you go down the slippery slope of a "contract within a contract" it is hard to go back. Sounds like the B-scale all over again.

 

[JohnDoe]

quote:
"I believe the proposal is for the new 70-seaters to be operated at one of the Airlink carriers with Airlink ground service, Airlink flight attendants, Airlink mechanics, ect... The only attachment they would have to mainline would be the cockpit crews. Essentially a Jets for Jobs deal. "


Thats the proposal, huh.....???

 

[avrodriverj85]

The upside though would be a job at NWA (eventually, maybe) but who knows what it will be like there in 5 years.

Hey Ace,

This is the kind of atitude that is getting us in trouble - "hopefully we can get a job thru flowthru, if we bend over - AGAIN".

But don't feel too bad, our MEC leadership is going to shove it right up our ass and call it a victory for the XJ pilots. Just like they did when they TA'd that turd of a contract back in Jan.

 

[FDJ2]

If ASA and Comair are contractors, what are the terms of the contract?

What is the duration of the contract?

The Delta annual report lists both ASA and CMR as contract carriers.

"We have contractual arrangements with six regional carriers to operate regional jet and turboprop aircraft using our “DL” code. ASA and Comair are our wholly-owned subsidiaries, which operate all of their flights under our code. We also have agreements with Atlantic Coast Airlines (“ACA”), SkyWest Airlines, Inc. (“SkyWest”), Chautauqua Airlines, Inc. (“Chautauqua”) and American Eagle Airlines, Inc. (“Eagle”), which operate some of their flights using our code."

You just happen to be a wholly owned contract carrier, whereas the others are not.

 

[dondk]

From what I have heard/understood regarding the flow-up/one list deal with NWA is:
XJ/9E merge to one list...
Given a sen# at NWA.. pay, vacation, 401K contributions based on actual longevity (airlink) on the new scale (NW70).

Seat and equipment based on the actualy sen #. (18 year airlink cannot bump the most junior furloughed dude) for the flow up

Therefore NWA MEC protects the seat(s) and the furloughee rights from airlinks.
Airlinks net the benefits of the NWA bennie's but lose longevity in regards to seniority.
NWA mgt retains the rights to whom is added to the NWA sen list. So the goofballs and problem children at airlink will never make it to the NWA side of the house.

This info came from someone working with the union on this issue from the airlink side of the house.

In this case.. bascially all three make out some way or form, not the best intial proposal.. but something to work on ... and like mentioned earlier, what the final outcome will be is more than likely 180 degree's from what is above.