Conscientious Objector

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Just curious... do you talk to people in Q and A format?

Q: Why is North Korea pissed at us?
A: Because we had a Nuclear Non-Proliferation Agreement with them (signed I believe by B. Clinton) and they didn't keep their end of the bargin.

And why did they not keep thier bargain.

Q: Iran is pissed why?
A: Because it's in the best interest of the radical leadership to have it that way.

And why is that?

When a person or people want something from you, and they are of fairly good morale character they will ask for things, and you will in turn negotiate in good faith. What type of person threatens with NUCLEAR weapons? Hmmh...

Define fairly good moral character...

 

[BiffF15]

Is it one or the other? Can there be a third choice?

Yes, there can. No one would die. Lets all lay down our weapons and do a group hug.



Why does he have to say it on national news? What is he trying to gain by doing so?

What do you want him to say, a LIE? Do you want him to say "No, we won't shoot anyone down, we are just doing this to put off the bad guys". OR, do you want him to tell the truth which is what our nation expects or demands?..



You have no idea what I done or haven't. But it is irrelevant. The issue is why does a pilot on national TV have to say he'd shoot down a US airliner. This is the question and debate. Not military service...



Why are you so offended?

I'm not offended, I'm just concerned that someone can have such a misconstrued perception of reality.



No, the joke goes... enough about flying lets talk about me...

Human nature, a person does something they are extremely proud of, of course they want to talk about it.




Again. I agree with all of this.. Good stuff. The question... why does a guy have to get on national news and say he'd shoot down a civilian airliner..



This is a bit simple don't you think?

Of course it is, that's the secret of it.




ok.



Can you provide examples?



But yet you are spending allot of time replying...

Not anymore. I'm done. How does the saying go, you can spend all night listening to the dogs bark all the while going deaf and learning nothing.



So I don't see things your way and agree with you then I must apologize. I thought you defend free of speech and democracy...

You aren't disagreeing, you are trying to rouse the ire of good people. I have, am, and will in the future protect our rights. I gave an oath to do so, which I still take very seriously regardless of what I think of the person or persons in the hot seat at 1600 Penn Ave.



Are people who choose not to fight in the MIL less than people who do?

Not sure who is fighting that's not in the military.



What does that mean?

You obviously didn't see / hear Vick's statement on the boob tube or you would understand.

No, I don't talk in Q: & A: format, but I do type that way so it's clear what my point is.

You are on here just trying to start another flame.

You are right, I'm waisting my time. Let this stand as warning to others, it really is a waste of time to answer Rez.

I'm done with you.

 

[highsky]

You are right, I'm waisting my time. Let this stand as warning to others, it really is a waste of time to answer Rez.

I'm done with you.

Me too.

Insanity = Spending countless hours of life on flightinfo.com debating people who will never get it.

 

[Hobit]

Rez,

I honestly don't know if you are antagonistic, arrogant, or ignorant.

Previous Quote:
Q: When a fighter pilot is sitting Homeland Defense Alert in the post 911 world and he is asked if he will obey orders and shoot down an airliner what the f--k do you expect him to say?
A: No, I'm a conscientious objector and I really appreciate Uncle Sammy letting me fly this here little fighter jet but now that I'm expected to perform I can't do it? Oh by the way which airlines are hiring?



Rez writes:
"Why does he have to say it on national news? What is he trying to gain by doing so?"

Maybe because:
1. there are still people probing the security system.
2. the people that make the shoot/don't shoot decisions want the bad people to know they will no longer take thousands with them.


Previous Quote:
Rez,
Let me ask this in a much simpler format.
Q: Would you rather your kid be dead or someone elses?
A: It's obvious.

Rez writes: "Is it one or the other? Can there be a third choice?"

Seriously... IT'S COMBAT! There is an inevitable time where it becomes "him or me". Are you really this uninformed?!!! Think the Roman Coliseum. Both folks know when they walk on the field what the consequences are. Too Bad, so sad. I am glad I showed up to the fight with a modern day helicopter and I learned how to shoot it very well. I am still breathing and the infantry I protected are too. The stupid fU(ks that showed up unprepared were VERY bad people and deserved their trip to room temperature. But you don't want to know that because it would conflict with your prejudged ideas that are more comfortable. I guess I could have chosen your easy and mentally comfortable stance but I wanted to look my future kids in the eye and not tell them that I was shoveling sh!t in states when evil reared its head again.

The funny thing is that we put more emphasis on the quality of life (LIBERTY) than you - we stood up and shouldered the defense of it while you chose to serve your own interests. The sad thing is that our country has no mechanism for making you put up your fair share. Maybe you could help out by folding towels at the local military gym.

 

[Hobit]

Today, 01:01 Remove user from ignore list
Rez O. Lewshun This message is hidden because Rez O. Lewshun is on your ignore list.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

You obviously didn't see / hear Vick's statement on the boob tube or you would understand.

No, I don't talk in Q: & A: format, but I do type that way so it's clear what my point is.

You are on here just trying to start another flame.

You are right, I'm waisting my time. Let this stand as warning to others, it really is a waste of time to answer Rez.

I'm done with you.

If you don't know why N Korea is doing what they are doing....same with Iran.... I am not justifying what they are doing... I am just saying for one to say that they need to be militarily wiped out is a bit irresponsible...

Vick? Seen headlines on the paper but I just don't find it worth my time...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I honestly don't know if you are antagonistic, arrogant, or ignorant.

So if I view an issue differently I am antagonistic, arrogant or ignorant. Do you come on to FI to be validated?

Previous Quote:
Q: When a fighter pilot is sitting Homeland Defense Alert in the post 911 world and he is asked if he will obey orders and shoot down an airliner what the f--k do you expect him to say?
A: No, I'm a conscientious objector and I really appreciate Uncle Sammy letting me fly this here little fighter jet but now that I'm expected to perform I can't do it? Oh by the way which airlines are hiring?



Rez writes:
"Why does he have to say it on national news? What is he trying to gain by doing so?"

Maybe because:
1. there are still people probing the security system.
2. the people that make the shoot/don't shoot decisions want the bad people to know they will no longer take thousands with them.

Then save it for the PR trained 0-5 and above. Why does a JO have to say that....

Previous Quote:
Rez,
Let me ask this in a much simpler format.
Q: Would you rather your kid be dead or someone elses?
A: It's obvious.

Rez writes: "Is it one or the other? Can there be a third choice?"

Seriously... IT'S COMBAT! There is an inevitable time where it becomes "him or me".

Between a baby and adult? Babies are trying to kill us?

Are you really this uninformed?!!! Think the Roman Coliseum. Both folks know when they walk on the field what the consequences are. Too Bad, so sad. I am glad I showed up to the fight with a modern day helicopter and I learned how to shoot it very well. I am still breathing and the infantry I protected are too. The stupid fU(ks that showed up unprepared were VERY bad people and deserved their trip to room temperature. But you don't want to know that because it would conflict with your prejudged ideas that are more comfortable. I guess I could have chosen your easy and mentally comfortable stance but I wanted to look my future kids in the eye and not tell them that I was shoveling sh!t in states when evil reared its head again.

Maybe I am misinformed... or maybe I view things differently. Does that make me a bad American? Should I move to France cause I don't think like you?

The funny thing is that we put more emphasis on the quality of life (LIBERTY) than you - we stood up and shouldered the defense of it while you chose to serve your own interests.

You have no idea what me or my family have given to this country...

The sad thing is that our country has no mechanism for making you put up your fair share.

Are you suggesting compulsulry (sp) military service?

Maybe you could help out by folding towels at the local military gym.

A personal shot?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Me too.

Insanity = Spending countless hours of life on flightinfo.com debating people who will never get it.

So you back out cause "I don't get it?"

 

[Huggyu2]

I only read part of the last 24 hours of this thread, and it's sucked the life out of me.
No wonder I'm avoiding FI.com more and more.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I only read part of the last 24 hours of this thread, and it's sucked the life out of me.
No wonder I'm avoiding FI.com more and more.

As it should......killing human beings ins't like trying to decide if one should get the two item or three item combo at the chinese food court.....

As much as we want to make easy it is not....

Take for example a thread a few months (year) ago... An Ex Marine killed a person who was trying to rob him. Most posters cheered him on with bravado, a job well done and to hell with the dead....

While I supported the Marine and his actions I didn't support the celebration of death. And neither did the Marine. A follow up news report on the Marine said he was very distruaght about having to take a life, even under his circumstances....

So its easy in our SUV, Starbucks, Flat Screen, High Speed culture to call for death, celebrate death and high five each other on message boards that it "was a good kill" in reality I think we should just keep quiet and understand the complexity of the issue...

Is everyone that joins the US Armed Forces going to be an efficient killing machine? Is it realistic that a small percentage over time will decide to opt out? And if so, why are so many offended? What is the threat?

Fact is with 100,000 airline pilots in this country a small percentage are going to gay, alcoholics or whatever.... so whats the point?

If the percentage grows, then perhaps a concern?

 

[bagasticks]

Rez,

You do understand that although you sympathize with all of these terrorist regimes (past, present and future) and believe we should negotiate with them they would rather wrap you in an orange jump suit and cut your head off on TV right?

You can hug and hold and cuddle with all of the islamic radicals that you want but at the end of the day, you are an infidel and they want you dead, and while you sit at talks and try and negotiate, they ARE plotting your destruction, my destruction, our families destruction, and our country's destruction.

As for the comments of the young pilot concering the airlines . . . . .I think its been proven time and time again. Dont ask a soldier a question that you dont want a straight answer for. . .90% of our country completely understood his response and probably wished he had been in the air on September 11th. . . .
cheers

-bags

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

You do understand that although you sympathize with all of these terrorist regimes (past, present and future) and believe we should negotiate with them they would rather wrap you in an orange jump suit and cut your head off on TV right?

What the Hell are you talking about? This is the problem with you people... If someone isn't calling for "sand to glass" then you think its hug a terrorist day.

I am not talking about them... I am talking about us. Martin Luther wasn't blashpemous (sp) he was just calling BS on the church and its ways.

You can hug and hold and cuddle with all of the islamic radicals that you want but at the end of the day, you are an infidel and they want you dead, and while you sit at talks and try and negotiate, they ARE plotting your destruction, my destruction, our families destruction, and our country's destruction.

Agreed. I don't want to hug anyone. I support the defense of this country and our ways... and if need be I am willing to kill. However, I am not willing to celebrate death. or go on the news and say I'd kill.

I am also willing to see if there are other ways to solve the problems so we don't have to kill. and if that includes changing the way we do business I am willing to consider. Killing isn't always the only way.

As for the comments of the young pilot concering the airlines . . . . .I think its been proven time and time again. Dont ask a soldier a question that you dont want a straight answer for. . .90% of our country completely understood his response and probably wished he had been in the air on September 11th. . . .
cheers

Again... I agree. We all knew that fighter guys flying CAP would should down an airliner if needed. We all know he'd follow orders and he wouldn't like it. So why do we need a fighter pilot in full gear doing a pre-flight telling us what we already know? This guy was a foot solider not General or high up politican.

It is pretty amazing the US jets were flying CAP over US cities. The media was going nuts and squadron PR officers were doing allot. It was a crazy time. I don't think the military PR machine was perfect then. Maybe you do....???

 

[Frisko]

Agreed. I don't want to hug anyone. I support the defense of this country and our ways... and if need be I am willing to kill.


Again... I agree. We all knew that fighter guys flying CAP would should down an airliner if needed. We all know he'd follow orders and he wouldn't like it. So why do we need a fighter pilot in full gear doing a pre-flight telling us what we already know? This guy was a foot solider not General or high up politican.

No you are not willing to kill, you are willing to sit on your a$$ and let someone else do it for you while you wait to Monday morning quarterback the operation after it is over.

Why do we need to see the pilot on CNN? Because the guy who is sitting at home contemplating whether it is a good idea to go out and run another plane into a building needs to see what is waiting for him. He doesn't need to see saber rattling from some politician or General giving a press conference.

 

[bagasticks]

What the Hell are you talking about? This is the problem with you people... If someone isn't calling for "sand to glass" then you think its hug a terrorist day.


I am not talking about them... I am talking about us. Martin Luther wasn't blashpemous (sp) he was just calling BS on the church and its ways.



Agreed. I don't want to hug anyone. I support the defense of this country and our ways... and if need be I am willing to kill. However, I am not willing to celebrate death. or go on the news and say I'd kill.

I am also willing to see if there are other ways to solve the problems so we don't have to kill. and if that includes changing the way we do business I am willing to consider. Killing isn't always the only way.


Again... I agree. We all knew that fighter guys flying CAP would should down an airliner if needed. We all know he'd follow orders and he wouldn't like it. So why do we need a fighter pilot in full gear doing a pre-flight telling us what we already know? This guy was a foot solider not General or high up politican.

It is pretty amazing the US jets were flying CAP over US cities. The media was going nuts and squadron PR officers were doing allot. It was a crazy time. I don't think the military PR machine was perfect then. Maybe you do....???

Problem with us? dude you came onto to the military message board and implied that heartless fighter guys would shoot down airliners just to "score a kill"

Diplomacy works well with other governments (I'm sure east germans and most of the former soviet union would argue that we haven't pissed everyone off in the last 50 years). . Diplomacy does not work at all against terrorism. . . . . converting them to grainular pink mist is fairly effective though. .

Military PR has always been sketchy at best. Dont ask a fighter dude, pre-flighting his jet, fangs hanging out, getting ready to fly a sortie in defense of his country if he is willing to kill. . . . .Thats like asking a whore on the corner if shes willing to screw. .

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

No you are not willing to kill, you are willing to sit on your a$$ and let someone else do it for you while you wait to Monday morning quarterback the operation after it is over.

Again... you seem to want to debate something that is not on the table....

The debate is about going on national news and discussing shooting down a US Airliner....

Why do we need to see the pilot on CNN? Because the guy who is sitting at home contemplating whether it is a good idea to go out and run another plane into a building needs to see what is waiting for him.

ok.....maybe.... I didn't realize the press was doing for that reason... but...ok... maybe they are working with the gov't.

He doesn't need to see saber rattling from some politician or General giving a press conference.

Why? What were all the press conferences during the Iraq war all about from Generals?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Problem with us? dude you came onto to the military message board and implied that heartless fighter guys would shoot down airliners just to "score a kill"

To be honest, I don't check what board I am on.... I click new posts... I didn't realize the MIL board was for Special people.... if you want to descretely chat it up with your fellow MIL pilots then get a password protected board or go to the O'Club... this is a public board..

I didn't imply that he was heartless, just not press savvy. Simply put the press won that one.... I'm sure he's a great pilot and does allot etc... but I don't think he had allot of press training...

Any one who critiques the MIL guys gets the "shock and awe" treatment. You guys can't take it. And you use "terrorist loving and huggin" comments, treason and ultra liberal, etc.... Which says there is no room for discussion, its one way or the highway...

Its really all about the attitude...

Diplomacy works well with other governments (I'm sure east germans and most of the former soviet union would argue that we haven't pissed everyone off in the last 50 years). . Diplomacy does not work at all against terrorism. . . . . converting them to grainular pink mist is fairly effective though. .

Then suit up and go drop bombs...

Military PR has always been sketchy at best. Dont ask a fighter dude, pre-flighting his jet, fangs hanging out, getting ready to fly a sortie in defense of his country if he is willing to kill. . . . .Thats like asking a whore on the corner if shes willing to screw. .

Agreed!

 

[Deuce130]

Any one who critiques the MIL guys gets the "shock and awe" treatment. You guys can't take it. And you use "terrorist loving and huggin" comments, treason and ultra liberal, etc.... Which says there is no room for discussion, its one way or the highway...

You didn't critique, disagree, or discuss. You threw an intentional bomb with your "four more to go.." comment and now you're crying foul because you got ripped for it. At least be honest about what you were trying to do. You knew you would stir the pot, you got what you wanted, and now you're crying foul. Grow up.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

You didn't critique, disagree, or discuss. You threw an intentional bomb with your "four more to go.." comment and now you're crying foul because you got ripped for it. At least be honest about what you were trying to do. You knew you would stir the pot, you got what you wanted, and now you're crying foul. Grow up.

Fair enough......

 

[Frisko]

Why? What were all the press conferences during the Iraq war all about from Generals?

Yes, some were... some weren't.
What would deter you more? Saying we have a plan to deal with hijacked aircraft in a press conference or saying we have a plan using a loaded out F-15 as a visual aid?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Yes, some were... some weren't.
What would deter you more? Saying we have a plan to deal with hijacked aircraft in a press conference or saying we have a plan using a loaded out F-15 as a visual aid?

Are you saying the press was working with the DOD to "get the word out"


By your logic... animation of "a shoot down" would be an effective visual aid.... which I think is disgusting...