Conscientious Objector

[BiffF15]

Contrary to my better judgement I will make another post on this thread.

Gents before you use your time to reply to anything Rez posts I would suggest that you actually scroll back through some of his other threads/comments. I can't figure out if he is mentality wise 14 years old, a total flamebaiter, or something less.

DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME WITH REPLYING TO HIS COMMENTS. IT WILL BE TWISTED AROUND TO FURTHER ANGER THOSE WHO SERVE.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME WITH REPLYING TO HIS COMMENTS. IT WILL BE TWISTED AROUND TO FURTHER ANGER THOSE WHO SERVE.

So if someone doesn't support those who serve 100% and question nothing then it angers you guys?

I thought serving meant protecting the rights of all Americans, even the ones that have different viewpoints. I thought being American was the ability to address the issues and offer different viewpoints? I thought we created this country to free of tyranny?

 

[bagasticks]

It doesnt anger me that you have opinions or questions. . . whatever. It would, however appear that you are just trying to flamebait the military for all of our "unnecessary killing of babies" and questioning our motives (body count?)

 

[Frisko]

Are you saying the press was working with the DOD to "get the word out"
By your logic... animation of "a shoot down" would be an effective visual aid.... which I think is disgusting...

No I'm not saying that and don't twist my words, I'm saying that the press is a good way to inform would be hijackers that they will be shot down.
And no I didn't say we should use a shoot down as a visual aid.
You are a moron and this is a waste of time trying to explain this $hit to you.
I'm out

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

No I'm not saying that and don't twist my words,

I am trying to offer that there are many viewpoints.

While some think its appropriate to show a young fighter pilot that doesn't want to shoot down a US airliner but will because it is the right thing to do...

Other might be offended by it. Is that possible? Is another viewpoint possible? Not that it is right or wrong, but just another viewpoint?

I'm saying that the press is a good way to inform would be hijackers that they will be shot down.

And Al-Qeda has done the same, although thier media methods are evil and ours not...

And no I didn't say we should use a shoot down as a visual aid.

No you didn't...but the principle would be the same...

You are a moron and this is a waste of time trying to explain this $hit to you.

maybe. Or maybe there is another viewpoint? Is your viewpoint the only one and its only right? I don't think you are a moron. I understand your position and repsect your different opinion.

The book Flyboys really gives a different perspective.... and in the book Gen Curtis LeMay expected to tried as a war criminal by the Japanese if we lost the war.

 

[Hobit]

People,
Engaging this _______ is like trying to picking up mercury. A waste of time and bad for your health. He is not firing on all cylinders.

I suggest the following:

This message is hidden because Rez O. Lewshun is on your ignore list.

 

[Draginass]

.... and in the book Gen Curtis LeMay expected to tried as a war criminal by the Japanese if we lost the war.

From the outset, the Japanese systematically murdered prisoners of war and civilians. The committed genocide against the Chinese. They used captive populations in gruesome medical experiments. Their soldiers, like the enemy we face now, feined surrender, and took advantage of other Geneva Convention rules to get close enough to our forces to inflict harm. The Japanese, through their own actions, brought upon themselves the fury that befell them.

If the US had lost the war, the wholesale murder that would have resulted from the Japanese high command would have made the Holocaust look mild. General Lemay was a tough guy with a tough job and he saved hundreds of thousands of America lives fighting an enemy with no regards to human life, not even their own. Sound familiar??

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

And what the fukc do YOU know about foreign policy? I think the President and Condoleeza Rice can manage just fine without your expertise. Have you ever seen her resume? Go online and check it out.

I just peed my pants laughing at the absolute stupidity of that paragraph!! Have you actually paid any attention to their handling of US foreign relations?????????

 

[highsky]

I just peed my pants laughing at the absolute stupidity of that paragraph!! Have you actually paid any attention to their handling of US foreign relations?????????

I'm so done debating dou(hebags like you.

Frankly, it's quite disturbing that people like you fly airplanes profesionally.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

I'm so done debating dou(hebags like you.

Frankly, it's quite disturbing that people like you fly airplanes profesionally.

Very intelligent, mature response. It scares me that you are allowed to play with guns.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

I'm so done debating dou(hebags like you.

Frankly, it's quite disturbing that people like you fly airplanes profesionally.

Very intelligent, mature response. It scares me that you are allowed to play with guns.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

From the outset, the Japanese systematically murdered prisoners of war and civilians. The committed genocide against the Chinese. They used captive populations in gruesome medical experiments. Their soldiers, like the enemy we face now, feined surrender, and took advantage of other Geneva Convention rules to get close enough to our forces to inflict harm. The Japanese, through their own actions, brought upon themselves the fury that befell them.

Agreed. It has been said that the IJA was more Nazi than the Nazi's.

If the US had lost the war, the wholesale murder that would have resulted from the Japanese high command would have made the Holocaust look mild. General Lemay was a tough guy with a tough job and he saved hundreds of thousands of America lives fighting an enemy with no regards to human life, not even their own. Sound familiar??

Agreed. However, LeMay knew that the fire bombing of Tokyo and killing of thousands of Japanese Civilians: women, children and babies, was necessary but brutal. There was no glory. The winners of war get to run the war crime tribunals.

Reading the book (Flyboys) I was quite disturbed by the action of the US Army. I thought my country didn't behave this way.... but we can know impropriety (sp) when we see it and can correct and do better...

Having George HW Bush in the book, as a WWII pilot and a post President, was interesting too....

 

[Draginass]

I don't know this book Flyboys so I don't know what the premise was, but a slick journalists and writers can take an event and twist it via omissions in information, distortion, tortured logic, etc. to lead a reader who lacks critical thinking skills into a particular conclusion. This is the modus operandi of many current writers.

In the case of Tokyo, war industries are legitimate targets. An enemy, like the Japanese that intersperses it's war industry into many many small facilities in a large urban area is trying to use the population as a shield. Sort of like the NVA did by placing anti-aircraft guns on the tops of hospitals. Or how the islamo-terrorists use ambulances as bombs or for the transport of fighters. They use our own sense of humanity against us. They think us weak and decadent for thinking the way we do. The Japanese conducted a show trial and executed captured airmen from the Doolittle Raid. This was in clear violation of the Geneva Convention. However, as we know, the Japanese cared little for the laws of armed conflict, except how they could use our own sense of humanity against us.

By all rights, these terrorists have zero protection under the laws of armed conflict.

These are the types of enemies we face. I am actually awestruck at the restraint that the United States has shown against such evil, both during and after wars.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I don't know this book Flyboys so I don't know what the premise was, but a slick journalists and writers can take an event and twist it via omissions in information, distortion, tortured logic, etc. to lead a reader who lacks critical thinking skills into a particular conclusion. This is the modus operandi of many current writers.

You can read the reviews at amazon.com Many people spoke highly of it... and many people don't like the way it portrays America.

I see it as an objective view. GHWB thought the book was good enough to be apart of it, in the early 2000's.

A book review excerpt....

Bradley's account is objective, covering brutality on both sides of the war, including orders from the top down to kill Japanese soldiers rather than take them prisoner, or blanket bomb residential areas to inflict maximum casualties. War brings out inhumanity, and this historical account is an important reminder of the need for vigilance about the morality of any leader's orders, especially in wartime. Flyboys is not a book for the faint-hearted but is highly recommended to those interested in what can be learned from history.

In the case of Tokyo, war industries are legitimate targets. An enemy, like the Japanese that intersperses it's war industry into many many small facilities in a large urban area is trying to use the population as a shield. Sort of like the NVA did by placing anti-aircraft guns on the tops of hospitals. Or how the islamo-terrorists use ambulances as bombs or for the transport of fighters. They use our own sense of humanity against us. They think us weak and decadent for thinking the way we do.

Agreed. Even Yammoto was objective enough.... He stated after PH that we (the Japanese) have 'awoken a sleeping Giant' and he also believed Tokyo would burn with its paper and wood houses intermixed with industry.

A very heroic story of course is Doolittles Raid. Amazing what those guys did. The Hornet was spotted by a Japanese fishing boat and destroyed but feared that the Hornet's position would be reported. Doolittle and his men launched early knowing it was suicide mission for they wouldn't have the range to make China. The crews were told to bomb any military target except the Imperial Palace. I have an orginal copy of "30 Seconds over Tokyo"

By all rights, these terrorists have zero protection under the laws of armed conflict.

all right...

These are the types of enemies we face. I am actually awestruck at the restraint that the United States has shown against such evil, both during and after wars.

Each side thinks each one is evil and uses immoral methods. Each side thinks they are right.

Just because one understands what motivates his enemy doesn't mean he sympathizes with his emeny.

I understand why middle eastern men are pissed off and go radical.... that doesn't mean I support them or thier violence.

 

[JimNtexas]

Again... I agree. We all knew that fighter guys flying CAP would should down an airliner if needed. We all know he'd follow orders and he wouldn't like it. So why do we need a fighter pilot in full gear doing a pre-flight telling us what we already know? This guy was a foot solider not General or high up politican.

What I'm sure happened is that the media asked the Air Force public affairs office to interview a pilot. The Air Force decided that it would allow the interview. A request was passed down the chain of command to find a presentable volunteer pilot to do the interview. A volunteer was found and the interview conducted.

Now let's image what would have happened had the Air Force refused to allow an interview with a working pilot and instead just provided a general in an office to the media.

The original poster would no doubt have still have started this thread. He would have posted the following:

"Again... I agree. We all knew that fighter guys flying CAP would should down an airliner if needed. Why can't the Air Force provide at least one actual working pilot to discuss this mission with the public? Why did the Air Force just provide a General in an office to answer the questions? What are they hiding? Surely there is at least one pilot who would honestly discuss this mission with the public!"

 

[McGillicutty]

This message is hidden because Rez O. Lewshun is on your ignore list.

Good call! Done.

 

[Draginass]

You guys are right. He's hopeless. Chalk him up as another "useful fool."

Ignore activated.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

You guys are right. He's hopeless. Chalk him up as another "useful fool."

Ignore activated.

What a bunch of pathetic, close-minded people. You don't like a different opinion than yours, so you stick your fingers in your ears, and go "LALALALALA, I CAN'T HEAR YOU!" Sad. Very sad.

 

[Deuce130]

What a bunch of pathetic, close-minded people. You don't like a different opinion than yours, so you stick your fingers in your ears, and go "LALALALALA, I CAN'T HEAR YOU!" Sad. Very sad.

Rez started an intentional flame war on this thread. It's got nothing to do with differing opinions or policy discussions. He threw out an intentional insult, stirred up the pot, and is now trying to change the argument because he got slammed. You are ignoring that fact and simply trying to change the argument as well with your insults. You both are acting like you're 12 and intentionally misconstruing this whole thread. I DON'T like your opinion. I find most of your opinons pathetic and abhorrent. That doesn't make me close minded. It means I can think for myself. By your reasoning, you would also be pathetic and close-minded. So shut your co*k holster and go away. Hippie. We'll see how sad you think everything is when "they" come for you and yours and you're looking around with a confused look on your face wondering why noone's doing something about it.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

Rez started an intentional flame war on this thread. It's got nothing to do with differing opinions or policy discussions. He threw out an intentional insult, stirred up the pot, and is now trying to change the argument because he got slammed. You are ignoring that fact and simply trying to change the argument as well with your insults. You both are acting like you're 12 and intentionally misconstruing this whole thread. I DON'T like your opinion. I find most of your opinons pathetic and abhorrent. That doesn't make me close minded. It means I can think for myself. By your reasoning, you would also be pathetic and close-minded. So shut your co*k holster and go away. Hippie. We'll see how sad you think everything is when "they" come for you and yours and you're looking around with a confused look on your face wondering why noone's doing something about it.

Point proven. Typical Dick Cheney type response. I'm not close-minded at all. The people putting Rez on "ignore" are the close-minded ones. I happen to disagree with Rez about some of this, I'm just very disappointed by the reaction of some of those who are "fighting for the very freedoms Rez is exercising". The irony/hypocrisy is astonishing.