Conscientious Objector

[highsky]

"To be a man, you must first learn to obey."
-- Robert E. Lee while head of Washington University (later Washington and Lee University) after the War Between the States.

Good quote. Good post.

 

[highsky]

In WWII the bomber pilots were told.... 'you are going to be baby killers'..... at least they weren't American babies....right!

Right after 9/11 the press was going nuts over the military flying CAP over US cities.. they [the press] loved it. And it seemed the PR officers for these squadrons were right out of press school.... I like the fighter jock interviewed as he preflighted his jet..... "I wouldn't like it...but yeah, I'd shoot down a US airliner". Sh!t hot dude! only four more to go!

Then there was the tanker pilot who said flying airliners.... "pretty much bus driver kind of stuff. You take off, you land, it's all automated." As for tankers, "you won't get this kind of fun flying anywhere else."




It's black and white baby! Clear cut decisions with no grey! Rock on!

Real fukcing funny.

Tool.

 

[highsky]

I guess my decision not to join the Air Force was the right one then. I am not the sort of person who can blindly follow orders without understanding the rationale behind them. To know that in a given situation, I could be sent to jail for exercising my own intelligence, reasoning, and values that may have conflicted with orders is disheartening.

Dude, there are men with much greater strength of character and balls than you who didn't make the cut in their dream to fly in a military cockpit. What makes you think YOU had a choice to make anyway?

If you can't drop a nuke and instantly kill 10 million without hesitation when the order is given, you have no business wearing your country's uniform. These are the kind of men you need, want, and must have. Serving is a serious responsibility and privelege that simple minds like you will never be able to grasp.

Sleep well, while the rest of step up to the plate to protect you.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Wow Rez - I used to be mildly amused by your antics on the military board and our bickering back and forth. Whatever right, it was all fun and games. This BS is an all time low. This confirms I've got absolutely nothing for you dude. I did more months of Noble Eagle than I know what to do with. 5 to 6 hour vuls over DC, Camp David, etc...protecting the POTUS and our capitol. Do you think I enjoyed taking off with live missles and loaded gun? Are you f'in kidding me man? The thought of shooting down innocent people on airliner makes anyone's gut sick and it's something I never thought I'd be tasked to do when I signed the dotted line. However, if it saved thousands of other lives, then you're damn right - I'm going to do exactly what I'm told to do by our leadership. That's a decision that you'll never deal with.

What in the hell is your deal with military pilots anyway? Did you get burned in the past? Your above post not only ruined your credibility in my book, but I'll garauntee you it ruined your credibility in many other military flyer's books as well. Very poor taste and poor form man...

So if one doesn't think like you then they have no value?

If a MIL officer at some point in a 20 year career decides that s/he is a Conscientous (sp) objector then you lose respect for that person?

I never said anyhting about you! I was recalling the poorly planned fighter pilot and tanker pilot who spkke to the press. Is anyone faliable in your ranks?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

This is why you're not in the military. I'd rather a "fighter jock" shoot down an airliner and not like it than allow that airliner to crash into the Twin Towers. 200 dead civilians rather than 2000. Don't think for one second that "fighter jock" wouldn't lose sleep at night or question his decision in the years that would follow. He certainly wouldn't be thinking "four more to go." Not surprising that someone completely ignorant of the military would spout such drivel, though. Didn't you say your father was a Navy pilot or something? Where did this contempt for military pilots come from? Stick to ALPA, Rez. You're not very good as a military analyst.

Wrong analysis....

The issue isn't shooting down a civ airliner.... the issue is going on camera and saying you'd do it... even if you don't want to do it...

The issue isn't the job, its the self concieting, peacock feather display that turns people off.....

Hey man.... when a tactical guy gets in a jet to defend the USA I want him to think he is the best in world. I think Scrapdog is probably the best. Magnum too... and I support these guys...

But leave the attitude and arrogance at the squadron. Don't bring it to the airline and the message boards....

If you want hero worship then get a static display gig at an airshow and all the Civvies can come by and say ohh and ahh... and ask for your autograph....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Were they told this before or after learning that the life expectancy of a bomber pilot in Europe was well below 25 missions and that a large percentage of them would be buried in the European countryside at 200mph?

Below 25 missions... that bombing over Europe was brutal.... but a German baby dead is better than an American?

I was refering to the fire bombs and atom bombs over Japan when we had air supremcy there....

My point? It is all brutal and horrific. Why even try and quantify it?

Did you ever think that some of those pilots have friends that fly for the airlines? Did you ever think that the fighter jock you so easily scoff at might have to shoot down an airliner with a good friend on board, then go an explain to his friends widow and kids what he did?


Biff

Yeah I did think that fighter jock might have to shoot a friend down... that is why I thought it was in poor taste and hit a low bar to get on national news and say you'd do it....even if it wasn't liked....or detested..

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

That is deep..... I feel so......righteous with that one liner.....

Rough men are ready to do violence cause they don't have any other skill set to solve the problem. Might doesn't make right...

Yeah I sleep peacefully in my bed as I wait for the other shoe to drop as we have succeeded in pissing off the entire world for the past 50 years. Does that mean I want to negotiate with terrorist? Of course not, but it also means that I am willing to look at our Foreign policy and make changes so we don't have to drop bombs...

 

[Draginass]

Yeah I sleep peacefully in my bed as I wait for the other shoe to drop as we have succeeded in pissing off the entire world for the past 50 years. Does that mean I want to negotiate with terrorist? Of course not, but it also means that I am willing to look at our Foreign policy and make changes so we don't have to drop bombs...

What you fail to understand or, more likely, don't want to understand, is that force is the ultimate guarantor of your freedom. After all the talk, all the reasoning, all the concessions, and all the B.S., it will likely come down to force. Weakness and lack of will invites those who will do you harm. Anyone who doesn't know this is in fatally deep denial.

 

[jstars135]

I guess my decision not to join the Air Force was the right one then. I am not the sort of person who can blindly follow orders without understanding the rationale behind them. To know that in a given situation, I could be sent to jail for exercising my own intelligence, reasoning, and values that may have conflicted with orders is disheartening.

Sounds like, in simple words, that you are a self-centered *************************. You might want to check into that.

 

[jstars135]

Sounds like, in simple words, that you are a self-centered *************************. You might want to check into that.

That's cool. This board has auto-censor. I typed a word that's a synonym for a cat that begins with P and got the asterisks.

 

[highsky]

but a German baby dead is better than an American?

Hello? In the context of WWII, ABSOLUTELY!

I was refering to the fire bombs and atom bombs over Japan when we had air supremcy there....

Those fire bombs in Germany and Japan, and the atomic ordnance saved hundreds of thousands of American GIs lives. AND they saved hundreds of thousands of German and Japanese lives.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Yeah I did think that fighter jock might have to shoot a friend down... that is why I thought it was in poor taste and hit a low bar to get on national news and say you'd do it....even if it wasn't liked....or detested..

So what if he said it? Is the American public not supposed to be fully informed of our national defense posture and the realities involved in its execution? Grow a pair, dude. War isn't pretty, and freedom isn't free. If you want to live in a smurf-like cocoon of Utopia, move to New Zealand.

Rough men are ready to do violence cause they don't have any other skill set to solve the problem. Might doesn't make right...

Geez...you really are an ignorant tool.

Most military pilots with whom I've had the privelege to serve are men of character and skill you will never even dream of having.

Yeah I sleep peacefully in my bed as I wait for the other shoe to drop as we have succeeded in pissing off the entire world for the past 50 years.

Dear liberal village boob:

Please leave the United States. France has plenty of room for you.

I am willing to look at our Foreign policy and make changes so we don't have to drop bombs...

We've tried that and continue to do so, inasmuch as possible with the stooges and fools that inhabit most of the rest of the world.

Do you think those crazy Muslims or the North Koreans give a rat's ass what we have to say? Geez, we can hardly get the Russians, Germans, and French to play ball with us, and they're intelligent, rational people!

And what the fukc do YOU know about foreign policy? I think the President and Condoleeza Rice can manage just fine without your expertise. Have you ever seen her resume? Go online and check it out.

Fool.